Is Heaven a real place aside from here and now>

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Nak Khid said:

Anybody who say they know what happens after death 

doesn't know what happens after death. They are simply making it up

Lol

Don't confuse your ignorance for others'.

[James123]

1 hour ago, Nak Khid said:

Anybody who says they know what happens after death 

doesn't knows what happens after death. They are simply making it up

Because, you can never die, you are keep transforming form to form, but you are aware all the time. You are nothing (your ground) thats why you are everything (human, will experience cat, chair to infinite). Ground of everything is nothing. Thats why you wont die, body will die. You are the ENTIRE PROCESS.

thats the reason why you are already enlightened, you are just having a confused version of infinite. Whatever you do is perfect.

Every second you are transforming. Your hair, personality, thoughts, relations. Even body dies, it transformed into grass, air or ashes. But whatever you do you take infinite form of infinite. Thats why your true nature is nothing. Because your true nature is your manifestation of all forms thats includes everything. You will experience nothingness and take form again. Non stop. Till infinity.

Edited June 5, 2020 by James123

[VeganAwake]

"It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is'. Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and people do not see it." -- Gospel of Thomas

[Gili Trawangan]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, it is a real place beside here.

Heaven is death.

You will not reach Heaven until you permanently die forever.

@Leo Gura This is where I fundamentally disagree with your perspective.

Even though I know the experience you're talking about, this is still duality. As in, Heaven is somewhere else, and I need to do something in order for it to materialize. It sounds like you're waiting for something.

Well, what if the dream is EXACTLY what You want? What if everything, every single moment, is exactly what it needs to be? Including all of the ego, the experience of being an individual, the experience of being in time and space, the delusion, and all that jazz? I just don't see how Heaven can be anywhere else but Here and Now. Always. No matter what the so-called experience is.

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

@Leo Gura This is where I fundamentally disagree with your perspective.

Even though I know the experience you're talking about, this is still duality. As in, Heaven is somewhere else, and I need to do something in order for it to materialize. It sounds like you're waiting for something.

Well, what if the dream is EXACTLY what You want? What if everything, every single moment, is exactly what it needs to be? Including all of the ego, the experience of being an individual, the experience of being in time and space, the delusion, and all that jazz? I just don't see how Heaven can be anywhere else but Here and Now. Always. No matter what the so-called experience is.

Your logic sounds good, but your current experience is not Heaven.

If you think this here is heaven, wait till you see the real deal.

You ain't in Heaven because you're too unconscious for Infinite Love.

You might protest that you ARE conscious. But you are not. And the reason I know that is because you are still alive. The only reason you are alive is because you're not Infinitely Conscious.

[Gili Trawangan]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you think this here is heaven, wait till you see the real deal.

Well, waiting is seeking. It comes from a place of lack. As in, "I'm not in heaven right now, maybe I will be in the future". This is what creates unsatisfactoriness. My claim is, and please take into account that I'm using language and therefore duality, that the one who wants to be in Heaven and Infinite Love Forever is Leo Gura, not God. God needs not the experience of Heaven (the Heaven you have visited many times and I have once) to be infinite love forever. God IS Infinite Love. Already. Always. Now.

 

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You ain't in Heaven because you're too unconscious for Infinite Love.

From a certain perspective, you're right. There are still beliefs operating here that I'm a body-mind, and definitely my ego is not all-loving. So you get no argument from me here. However, ultimately Infinite Love is what I, You, Infinity, the only "thing" that exists, Am already. Nothing needs to happen for that to be the case.

 

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You might protest that you ARE conscious. But you are not. And the reason I know that is because you are still alive. The only reason you are alive is because you're not Infinitely Conscious.

The 'me' you are speaking of is definitely not conscious, again I agree with you here. But what I posit to you is that this experience of being unconscious, not conscious enough for Infinite Love, is itself Infinite Love. Already. The ultimate beautiful paradox of God.

[James123]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your logic sounds good, but your current experience is not Heaven.

If you think this here is heaven, wait till you see the real deal.

You ain't in Heaven because you're too unconscious for Infinite Love.

You might protest that you ARE conscious. But you are not. And the reason I know that is because you are still alive. The only reason you are alive is because you're not Infinitely Conscious.

Do you mean by mentioning heaven, days and nights are too long, you are aware of the moment a lot thats why time passes slowly, your body and environment is moving Together and all action process is happening as you as love. Additionally, i feel my body,  but, it is so identical with my room. I think i am so aware or i just cant think anymore because searching demonstrated perfectly that only way is not to think, words are not enough. 
 

Additionally, staying in the moment created timeless thats why i feel i will never die, body will die (but it is just a word that we put meaning on it like just peeing). As a consciousness i will experience just a different feeling then the body ( thats how people will realize so called death). Like peeing and next second sneezing they are just a different actions. Thats why i will be here all the time, will never die but i am not here too. Because i am here as nothing. I feel these feelings. Am i deluding myself? Because i have been contemplation non stop, maybe i am deluding myself. Because i see love everywhere. It is like invisible shield that covered infinity. 

[Leo Gura]

55 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

But what I posit to you is that this experience of being unconscious, not conscious enough for Infinite Love, is itself Infinite Love.

It is Infinite Love, but since you ain't fully conscious of Infinite Love, you ain't in Heaven.

You are still living in fear, limitation, and separation.

I have seen Infinite Love, so I know what it looks like. None of you here have it. You will have it only after you die.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, James123 said:

Because i see love everywhere.

That's good progress, but there is a much higher degree of Love that you could access by going deeper.

That's all I'm pointing to. There are many degrees of Love. Access as much of it as you can stomach. If you go deep enough, you will die to it and never come back.

[zeroISinfinity]

Infinite Love can't go anywhere so I really don't have to die or chase that state. You always get "returned". 

What really gets left is creating something out of nothing and taking your full autorship over whole self. 

You are left all alone in your heaven. 

[Gili Trawangan]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

you ain't in Heaven.

I guess we'll have to continue to disagree on this  for me, heaven is full acceptance. Which is already the case. It does not depend on a state of formlessness.

[James123]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's good progress, but there is a much higher degree of Love that you could access by going deeper.

That's all I'm pointing to. There are many degrees of Love. Access as much of it as you can stomach. If you go deep enough, you will die to it and never come back.

I definitely understood your point. Increased love = higher consciousness = less ego. Thats why i feel i am in the trip for days. Because i am sure i am not here. I feel like every moment of my life j am in trip. Are we in the trip? Lol. I feel like i am tripping non stop, seriously life is fading away. 

[Gili Trawangan]

4 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Infinite Love can't go anywhere so I really don't have to die or chase that state. You always get "returned". 

What really gets left is creating something out of nothing and taking your full autorship over whole self. 

You are left all alone in your heaven. 

Agreed

[James123]

@Gili Trawangan it has been happening to me for days brother. I feel like both worlds are mixed become one. I dont feel the life a lot. Or i cant think of death. I have no idea how is that possible? Thats why i feel i am tripping entire my life now, past didnt happened. This is a joke. I cant believe it. I see love everywhere, playing with me Or moment is loving each other as nothing, which is me.

[zeroISinfinity]

3 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

Agreed

You can take that as best possible canvas and create your dream and not turn into ? of monumental scope. 

You end up all alone and you really have to grow up. 

[Gili Trawangan]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

@Gili Trawangan it has been happening to me for days brother. I feel like both worlds are mixed become one. I dont feel the life a lot. Or i cant think of death. I have no idea how is that possible? Thats why i feel i am tripping entire my life now, past didnt happened. This is a joke. I cant believe it. I see love everywhere, playing with me Or moment is loving each other as nothing, which is me.

@James123 Haha, beautiful! Heaven  and it's also heaven if it subsides and the ego comes back. You can't lose! 

[James123]

2 minutes ago, Gili Trawangan said:

@James123 Haha, beautiful! Heaven  and it's also heaven if it subsides and the ego comes back. You can't lose! 

You are right. But 4 nights ago, when i was meditating something bigger came into my consciousness, my mind got bigger. And it is so easy yo access it now. Right in my mind. I can feel it now, i am it. Right behind my ego. I can access it. I am loosing i think so. I just checked it, people have similar experiences with opening crown chakra. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by James123

[Gili Trawangan]

3 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

You end up all alone and you really have to grow up. 

 

@zeroISinfinity not sure what you mean exactly by this. Care to elaborate? 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Infinite Love can't go anywhere

You have yet to go to it. Whatever you got now is NOT Infinite Love. Don't fool yourself.

[James123]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You have yet to go to it. Whatever you got now is NOT Infinite Love.

Is it opening crown chakra? Do you feel higher awareness is right behind your ego? Because, 4 nights ago that giant mind came in my consciousness, and stays right there now. It is so easy to access and pass by the ego. I feel like whatever I concentrate, and believe it, it happens for me.