Nacho Vidal (porn star) charged with manslaughter due to a Bufo Alvarius death

[Lyubov]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/spain-porn-star-held-man-dies-toad-venom-200004558.html

First off... I'm confused why this was listed under the finance section of yahoo news 

He was facilitating Bufo ceremonies out of his home apparently. 

Secondly I'm curious what exactly caused the body to die... Can Bufo or 5meo if dosed way too high bring on a heart attack or respiratory failure? Are there any other deaths associated with this psychedelic? people have died from taking Ayahuasca: Usually from doing something dangerous while tripping like jumping off something, someone is believed to have died from choking on vomit while not being supervised. A few cases I believe where someone taking a prohibited medication that caused a lethal mixture. I think some people who already had a preexisting condition may have died as well from drinking. Finally drinking tobacco water and mixing various other substances all at once has caused death before during these retreats. 

[Preetom]

People die from breathing at their last moment so... 

[Scholar]

This is why responsible psychedelic use is key. And alss, I guess that's one way of god telling you to leave the toads alone. We have alternatives that are safer and do not require the exploitation of our brothers and sisters.

 

 

[Javfly33]

7 hours ago, Lyubov said:

 

Secondly I'm curious what exactly caused the body to die...

I think I read it was the he couldn´t breath.

He had some kind of heart condition.

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Can Bufo or 5meo if dosed way too high bring on a heart attack or respiratory failure?

Of course!

This is obvious.

But also you could become so conscious that you will simply disappear into God.

[Lyubov]

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I think I read it was the he couldn´t breath.

He had some kind of heart condition.

 

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course!

This is obvious.

But also you could become so conscious that you will simply disappear into God.

I did a bit more research and apparently the "toad" secretes not only 5meo but also bufotenin in it's slime. Seems like bufotenin can actually be quite toxic. I've yet to find anything about 5meo itself brining on a death of the body. 

 

[Girzo]

@Lyubov Yeah, but bufotenin is also a by-product of 5-MeO-DMT's metabolism by your body. So if it can harm you then pure synthetic 5-MeO can too.

[Lyubov]

6 minutes ago, Girzo said:

@Lyubov Yeah, but bufotenin is also a by-product of 5-MeO-DMT's metabolism by your body. So if it can harm you then pure synthetic 5-MeO can too.

Oh ok I see. 

The article doesn't state exactly what happened besides that he inhaled it so I'm assuming he did a line of it and it was a tremendously huge does and it brought on respiratory failure. 

[Mafortu]

really tragic, but we dont know the details, could be a number of things

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

@Lyubov Yeah, but bufotenin is also a by-product of 5-MeO-DMT's metabolism by your body. So if it can harm you then pure synthetic 5-MeO can too.

No, this is false.

Bufotenin is not created in the body if you do pure 5-MeO-DMT.

You will only get Bufo from the toad. Which is why toad is inferior to synthetic.

But I also read that when the toad venom is vaped, the bufotenin is burned off. So in practice there seems to be little difference. If you plugged toad venom, that's when you'd get the bufotenin straight into your brain, which is probably not a good idea.

[Lyubov]

I would also assume the secretion from the sonoran desert toad might be hard to properly dose as well. I don't know anything about how toads secrete their slime but I'm wondering if each secretion is consistent or not ie one toad may produce more 5meo than another. No clue why anyone would use toad slime over pure synthetic molecules that can be properly dosed. New agers like magical stuff that comes directly from the ground or a plant I guess. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Lyubov

[Girzo]

@Leo Gura are you sure? 

The last time I have checked it was a fact that some of it is converted to bufotenin. People were speculating that this is what causes visuals on 5-MeO.

I also don't get why would it get burned. Bufotenin is just a fancy name for 5-HO-DMT, they are both tryptamines with similar chemical properties, they will get vaped together.

The venom might have some other ingredients that are poisonous though.

[Leo Gura]

43 minutes ago, Girzo said:

just a fancy name for 5-HO-DMT, they are both tryptamines with similar chemical properties, they will get vaped together.

Check the boiling point of both chemicals. If bufo is lower than 5-MeO-DMT it's likely to get burned off.

Obviously I haven't done the chemistry work to know for sure.

At some point I'll probably smoke some venom and let you guys know if it's any different than pure synthetic.

[Girzo]

They have similar properties, that's why I think it doesn't get burned.

There are reports of people vaping bufotenin, like this one

https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=79324 

where person reports

"I was breathing consciously but somehow it didn’t feel as though the oxygen was getting in."

So it might be the compound that is causing issues in some people.

[Corpus]

Toad venom does contain bufotenine which subtly alters the aesthetic of the visual component. Plugging venom would be a stupid thing to do- its vaporized to get rid of the toxins which rectal insertion would allow into your blood.  Bufotenine on its own when vaped is visually pretty impressive, physically quite taxing and unpleasant and the headspace is much inferior to the usual tryptamines.