True void can only exist if the observer is not present

[B_Naz]

When I meditate, I meditate as the observer. I silence the thoughts but the observer is still there, observing the emptiness. I observe the observer observing the emptiness, and this goes on forever.

But the emptiness is still something because the observer is observing on the emptiness. It is as if the observer creates something for it to observe onto.

I'm saying this because if I were to experience enlightenment (or whatever), I'm observing the experience because I am the observer but how can I trust the observer? In the end, there should be no experiences because the observer shouldn't be here anymore, since I'm trying detach from the observer (or myself). But if I detach from the observer, then there is nothing to experience. Then... What's the point? If there's no point then this is fucking great because nothing matters anymore, I'm free.

Then this goes deeper because what I call no experience is no thoughts, yet the observer creates emptiness to observe onto

Is this making any sense?

[Carl-Richard]

The observer and the observed is a distinction which you're imagining.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[B_Naz]

@Carl-Richard I want to keep looking but here's the thing... Duality is something that the observer found. Duality is a concept that we created. How can we trust this? Maybe there is no duality (which is again something I'm making up), and maybe there is nothing to experience.

The Truth should be just... Void... And not the void you create in your mind when you silence your thoughts. I mean true void, with nothing to experience, no observer to create something

[B_Naz]

 

1 minute ago, B_Naz said:

The Truth should be just... Void... 

Now I'm enforcing a fact, writing down what Truth is when I can't even trust myself. Man this sucks but great at the same time

[Leo Gura]

There is no observer. Observer and observed are ONE.

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, B_Naz said:

Now I'm enforcing a fact, writing down what Truth is when I can't even trust myself. Man this sucks but great at the same time

To find yourself you must trust yourself.

[B_Naz]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no observer. Observer and observed are ONE.

One of the things I discovered is;

in order for an observation (or experience) to 'exist', an observer (or 'me') needs to be present to actually view the experience. This goes both ways too, for an observer to exist in the same way, something must be there to observed otherwise the observer can't... you know... observe or experience anything. This is where the language barrier breaks and I can't explain shit. However, Is this the One you describe? One can't exist without the other, hence them being One. Now I see the duality because I'm saying one can't exist without the other but is this why they're One? I just described it in a dual way because that's how my mind works.

 

@Carl-Richard I will never trust myself. I've seen my ego and the tricks it plays on me. The tricks are there for love because it doesn't want to die, doesn't want to be hurt doesn't want 'me' to get hurt, and I want it to co-exist because of that. So I find a hard time trusting myself. I feel like in order to find myself, I need to die to 'see' without bias. But then, the reason why I opened this thread is because if dying is the 'seeing' without bias, doesn't that mean the observer is no longer there, which means there is no observation there either?

 

[B_Naz]

It's as if there is an architect that created the observer and observation. That gave everything a role, observer must observe and the observation must be observed by an observer. The architect created duality, because it create infinity, and every possible combination and 'thing' must be present

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, B_Naz said:

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no observer. Observer and observed are ONE.

One of the things I discovered is;

in order for an observation (or experience) to 'exist', an observer (or 'me') needs to be present to actually view the experience. This goes both ways too, for an observer to exist in the same way, something must be there to observed otherwise the observer can't... you know... observe or experience anything. This is where the language barrier breaks and I can't explain shit. However, Is this the One you describe? One can't exist without the other, hence them being One. Now I see the duality because I'm saying one can't exist without the other but is this why they're One?

You are on the right track, but you still don't have a solid direct realization of what ONE means. Keep going deeper.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, B_Naz said:

It's as if there is an architect that created the observer and observation. That gave everything a role, observer must observe and the observation must be observed by an observer. The architect created duality, because it create infinity, and every possible combination and 'thing' must be present

This enquiry requires an emptying of the glass...

The glass that's presented is already full of concepts beliefs ideas and labels...

❤ what's longed for is beyond the mind constraints.

[B_Naz]

@VeganAwake It's so crazy because when I try to rationalise or understand what is happening, I can see myself explaining it with concepts and I know it's all bullshit yet I can't stop myself doing it because that's the only thing that makes sense. My mind tries to make sense of everything, and I don't know if that's a bad thing but how can I trust my mind hahah. Then that's when I put myself in a endless trap of mind masturbation and I know a huge problem is the rationalisation

Enquiry with an empty glass seems to me that I should let go of what is happening, is this what you mean? Once I'm done with meditation, I should 'forget' or 'let go' of what I found (Remembering the experience but not trying to rationalise it)? Then again... That's also a concept. Enquiry with an empty glass but I guess it's only a concept because I made it into one

 

 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, B_Naz said:

@VeganAwake It's so crazy because when I try to rationalise or understand what is happening, I can see myself explaining it with concepts and I know it's all bullshit yet I can't stop myself doing it because that's the only thing that makes sense. My mind tries to make sense of everything, and I don't know if that's a bad thing but how can I trust my mind hahah. Then that's when I put myself in a endless trap of mind masturbation and I know a huge problem is the rationalisation

Enquiry with an empty glass seems to me that I should let go of what is happening, is this what you mean? Once I'm done with meditation, I should 'forget' or 'let go' of what I found (Remembering the experience but not trying to rationalise it)? Then again... That's also a concept. Enquiry with an empty glass but I guess it's only a concept because I made it into one

 

 

Sounds like the solids in your glass have already been loosened up a bit... this is helpful so you're already off to a good start.

See it's not required that the mind stops thinking... rather its the recognition that what the conditioned mind thinks is not necessarily true.

A great way to look at it is:

The conditioned mind lays down its perceived reality over the top of reality and then operates from this place... if I get this big job promotion I am happy if I don't I am upset. Everyone that meditates and eats white rice is my friend and everyone who doesn't is not. 

The ego mind is dualistic in nature... it's literally the coming into being with separation. There's a separate individual here with its own agenda, and separate individuals out there, with their own agendas.

When it's recognized that the separate sense of self is nothing more than a psychosomatic misunderstanding or full-scale identification with thoughts ideas beliefs perceptions labels and energy as the 'ME' character located in the body... it can be shocking and ordinary simultaneously.

I really usually avoid giving advice for more mind stuff but if you get a chance to take a look at Peter Ralston's (The book of not knowing)

Enlightenment is the shattering of the ego construct and its paradigm which keeps you tired to social conditioning and locked in The Matrix of the Mind.

Good luck my friend have a good day!!

❤