Are Americans overreacting to Floyd's death?

[remember]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's because you've never experienced or contemplated the realities of being a cop. You think of it as some easy job when it is not.

Cops deal with assholes and criminals every day for years. This makes it very easy to get jaded. They have to stop caring because otherwise they couldn't keep doing their jobs. You can't be a bleeding heart hippie with every asshole who spits in your face and trying to stab you.

Exactly. You are not doing that.

yes i do as i live in another country - i see exactly in what direction your country is going. this guy represents the usa to the world, too. not only for americans he is a states representative. how much difference between the us and for ex. china is there anyways?

Edited June 5, 2020 by remember

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

indifferent while actively torturing someone.

Lol, he's not torturing him. He's restraining him. Police have to restrain people all the time. When you have to do that all the time, you get jaded to it.

Remember, people who become cops are not stage Turquoise hippies like you and me. They are meathead dudes who drink beer and watch UFC.

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol, he's not torturing him. He's restraining him.

I didn’t say he was. I gave an example of different degrees of indifference. They are not all the same dynamic. 

In the case of the cop, being indifferent to wether you physically kill an unconscious man would be a degree worse than being indifferent about a starving child in Africa. 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I didn’t say he was.

Okay, I read your statement as saying he was torturing him.

[SerpaeTetra]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

3rd degree murder seems like the proper charge here.

People who are calling for a higher charge are not being objective, they are seeking to exact revenge and a political agenda.

I think 2nd degree murder is the proper charge and don't wish revenge and do not have a political agenda, so you are wrong.

[Forestluv]

Here is the perspective of a lifelong LAPD cop. He kinda rambles the first half of the article, then gives some of his insights into the events. He makes the argument that  the prosecution won’t get a murder conviction. 

He mentions how Floyd resisted arrest and entry into the police car, he was intoxicated on fentanyl, was a meth user and was an “egg shell” due to his drugged state and a heart conditIon. As well, he mentions that “I can’t breath” is one of the most common ways to resist arrest and floyd claimed he couldn’t breath while resisting arrest into the police car. As well, he says the police report is written with seeds of doubt for a jury. 
 

After considering these points, I think a downgrade to manslaughter might happen. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-george-floyd-killing-a-police-officers-view/amp/

[Parththakkar12]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Remember, people who become cops are not stage Turquoise hippies like you and me. They are meathead dudes who drink beer and watch UFC.

What you're saying totally makes sense. I want to add though that this can change. Being at Turquoise doesn't mean that you'll necessarily be a bleeding-heart SJW. You can channel your inner ruthlessness when it comes to arresting people AND be mindful that the guy you're arresting is you.

I'm not saying this is easy or realistic in the near future. But it is something to aspire towards as a society.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Here is the perspective of a lifelong LAPD cop. He kinda rambles the first half of the article, then gives some of his insights into the events. He makes the argument that  the prosecution won’t get a murder conviction. 

He mentions how Floyd resisted arrest and entry into the police car, he was intoxicated on fentanyl, was a meth user and was an “egg shell” due to his drugged state and a heart conditIon. As well, he mentions that “I can’t breath” is one of the most common ways to resist arrest and floyd claimed he couldn’t breath while resisting arrest into the police car. As well, he says the police report is written with seeds of doubt for a jury. 
 

After considering these points, I think a downgrade to manslaughter might happen. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-george-floyd-killing-a-police-officers-view/amp/

This is the other side of the story I was pointing to.

[WaveInTheOcean]

Anyone I thought about how all this perhaps could be orchestrated from the Trump gov or from Russia who wants US to keep electing a retarded pres.?

Look at it this way:

- election soon coming

- Trump will do anything to get reelected

- Russia prolly want Trump as well

- imagine how easy it is for an outside gov/agency to get a cop to do something like this (for money)

- imagine how easy it is for an outside gov/agency to get a few people/agents to do raiding and violence in the otherwise peaceful riots, making the whole riot go crazy (it only takes a few to start it), making Trump look like a good leader taking action. It also removes attention from Trump's corona Management. 

- This killing creates extreme division within the country. As long as Trump looks like a good responsible leader fighting the violent riots , it may be a good thing for him.

Just saying

Edited June 5, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[WaveInTheOcean]

 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Anyone I thought about how all this perhaps could be orchestrated from the Trump gov or from Russia who wants US to keep electing a retarded pres.?

Look at it this way:

- election soon coming

- Trump will do anything to get reelected

- Russia prolly want Trump as well

- imagine how easy it is for an outside gov/agency to get a cop to do something like this (for money)

- imagine how easy it is for an outside gov/agency to get a few people/agents to do raiding and violence in the otherwise peaceful riots, making the whole riot go crazy (it only takes a few to start it), making Trump look like a good leader taking action. It also removes attention from Trump's corona Management. 

- This killing creates extreme division within the country. As long as Trump looks like a good responsible leader fighting the violent riots , it may be a good thing for him.

Just saying

Lol

Trump looks like more of an idiot than ever and this will probably cost him the election.

[electroBeam]

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Here is the perspective of a lifelong LAPD cop. He kinda rambles the first half of the article, then gives some of his insights into the events. He makes the argument that  the prosecution won’t get a murder conviction. 

He mentions how Floyd resisted arrest and entry into the police car, he was intoxicated on fentanyl, was a meth user and was an “egg shell” due to his drugged state and a heart conditIon. As well, he mentions that “I can’t breath” is one of the most common ways to resist arrest and floyd claimed he couldn’t breath while resisting arrest into the police car. As well, he says the police report is written with seeds of doubt for a jury. 
 

After considering these points, I think a downgrade to manslaughter might happen. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-george-floyd-killing-a-police-officers-view/amp/

While blacks are disproportionally brutalised by cops, they also disporportionally commit crimes, and so cops develop stereotypes based on real life experience. 

An incorrect assumption would be to assume that blacks are brutalised by police disporportionally because of their race alone. That's not exactly true. Blacks commit more crimes, and so they understandably develop a name for themselves. 

The real inequality stems from blacks being born with less wealth, therefore going to worse schools, hanging out with the wrong crowd and therefore committing more crime. That doesn't mean black is bad, it means there are disproportional pockets of wealth causing havoc for society, and the fact that there is a racial delineation compounds the problem by confusing blue stage types.

Its not fair to say police officers are the cause of societal problems due purely to racism. When they sigh and assume stuff when they hear a black guy robbing someone, they have a point, yet the underlying cause has negligible factors to do with race, but rather to do with imbalanced wealth and power distribution.

[Display_Name]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:30 AM, giglio said:

Your premise is wrong in the first place. The cop has not been proven a racist or a murderer yet. That could change but there is no evidence that he's a racist yet. We don't have all the facts or the evidence. We don't have the body camera footage. What we do know is George Floyd was a convicted felon and served five years for a violent crime in prison, he had a laundry list of crimes that he committed, he was actively engaged in a felony crime at the time, he resisted arrest and fought with police for quite some time, the autopsy revealed he had drugs in his system and pre-existing medical conditions, and that maneuver of holding a leg or an arm on a suspect neck is common practice in the police department of Minneapolis and authorized in their manual. Minneapolis Police have done it hundreds of times in the last 5 years according to an article. We also know criminals lie cheat and steal and make up all kinds of crap. We also know that criminals will lie about how badly they hurt when in handcuffs and on the ground. So really it boils down to did the officer really know he was in honest distress or did he think he was bluffing. it is common practice to keep a suspect down on the ground for a lengthy amount of time if they've been fighting with you. So there's nothing strange there. Another question is would the normal person without drugs in their system and no pre-existing medical conditions have been fine under the same circumstances. Yes the cop was charged with murder but if they would not have charged him with murder they would have been more rioting and the city officials lives would have been on the line if they didn't charge him with murder regardless of whether it's true or not. So they did for self-serving purposes. It's political. More than likely he will get manslaughter. Yes the cop had been involved in a couple other justifiable shootings in his career and was cleared of them. Based on accounts he used appropriate force in those incidences. You can look them up. And he had 20 complaints in his career which is not that many. Most cops get way more than that in their career because citizens accuse cops of all kinds of nonsense and makeup stuff up just because they're pissed off that they got a ticket. 

Stop all your mental masturbation for just a few minutes and just imagine keeping your body weight on your knee on the neck of another human, lying handcuffed and non-resisting on the ground for 8 minutes, even after he has stopped breathing and moving.

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Chauvin knew that his action could lead to Floyd's death.

That holds up as long as the guy is not resisting arrest.

If you resist arrest you should expect a knee on your neck. Not to the point of killing you, but cops definitely have a right to manhandle you if you are wrestling with them and trying to get away.

If cops around the country do 5,000 choke holds per year on average, a few of those will be leathal. You can't expect every cop to do it right every time.

[WaveInTheOcean]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

Trump looks like more of an idiot than ever and this will probably cost him the election.

corona made him look like an idiot:-) now there is zero focus on that right now. good for trump

Him now fighting the "violent" riots makes him look strong to those who already sympathize with him. Blacks were not gonna vote for him anyway, I guess, so maybe this ain't making him look so bad, as you and I think it makes him:)

who knows

Edited June 5, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean

[Raze]

Why is everyone assuming the end conviction will be the actual answer? There is so much public pressure it will surely effect the judge's decision. 

[Preety_India]

This issue is really complicated. The cops have to nab the bad guys, they do the dirty job for us, they are trained to be aggressive and fight hard because the job needs that, at the same time, becoming too aggressive or violent can cost the person's life. But they have to use force and sometimes this force can get excessive. 

I'll say this job is like playing with fire. 

And while playing fire you could burn yourself or others could get burned 

I wish there was a better way of arresting people where excessive force wouldn't be needed. 

Also the idea of resisting arrest is very subjective. The visceral reaction of the human body is not easy to control. Extreme fear and anxiety can create natural resistance even if you wanted to play by the rules. So I wouldn't blame the guy who resisted arrest. 

He is simply acting out of survival. That's him being human. 

I think the whole arrest process needs to be revamped because a person loses his life and the other ends up in prison with guilt. This is obviously not a good outcome 

 

[Leo Gura]

28 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

corona made him look like an idiot

He always looks like an idiot because he is one.

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Raze said:

Why is everyone assuming the end conviction will be the actual answer? There is so much public pressure it will surely effect the judge's decision. 

Wasn't the case with OJ Simpson.

This will be a hard trial to make fair. Everyone has their opinions already before hearing all the facts.

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

Him now fighting the "violent" riots makes him look strong to those who already sympathize with him.

Trump's base doesn't matter. They will vote for him regardless and he will not grow his base any more.

It's the folks in the middle who will bring Trump down because his vile personality has turned them off.

Trump looks weak, not strong.

Quote

Blacks were not gonna vote for him anyway, I guess, so maybe this ain't making him look so bad, as you and I think it makes him

Actually blacks did vote for him in the past. But now he will lose many blacks.

It's also a matter of riling up the black vote. In 2016 many black people treated Hilary and Trump as equal. Now they know better and they will show up to the polls as a protest vote against Trump. This is good.

Trump shows why voting for Republicans is lunacy.