Is The Ego The Lower-self ?

[Bruno]

Is the ego the lower-self ?

or the lower-self  is the ego when it's threatened ?

The way the ego is described is as "Who you think you are, your personal identity", so, it means that the ego is the self-image right ?

But the way the ego is usually refereed to usually looks like it's an entity living inside the "I", inside me, like it is all the petty low consciousness stuff on me, exactly like the lower-self.

So, is the higher-self part of the ego ?

Edited July 15, 2016 by Bruno

[Mal]

@Bruno

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Edited July 16, 2016 by Mal

[Mal]

@Bruno An intellectual way of looking at this is you have 3 selves. 

1) The false relative ego:

This is the fragmented ego.  Think of narcissism, psychopathology. Abnormal psychology.

2) The authentic relative ego:

This is an accurate self image. The "mature" ego.  It is the high functioning self, "self actualisation" 

3) True self (absolute self):

The presence I was speaking about. This is beyond conventional meaning making, it's a non dualistic perspective, the personal identity is not present in this state. It is a state experience where the person understands in a first hand way that his/her personal identity was a fiction and that being identified as a seperate individual is living in an ultimately false reality. For most seekers this can only be a state experience.  

Degrees of consciousness are mapped through this sequence.  The false ego has the least amount of consciousness.  The more accurate the self sense the more consciousness, the less "heady" the person (the less identified with illusion).

 

Edited July 16, 2016 by Mal

[99th_monkey]

all ideas of "selff-hood" are just concepts, anything and everything going on is you, its just how you break it up and label it that changes things, (leaving absolutes out of it).

stick to questioning, dont worry about wording too much, its just an expression anyways

[Consept]

Theres the you which is awareness, then theres everything you think you are. You are not whatever you think you are its just you believe you are, which gives rise to what you might call the ego. So your ego is not really good or bad its just whatever attributes you ascribe to it but none of it is you. Logically it can't be you as you're aware of it, therefore you are the awareness

[Khin]

@Bruno Lower self and Higher self is the same as saying your are a good person or a bad person. "SELF" don't exist... "I" don't exist. There's awareness. There're thoughts. There're bodies. But none of them are you. Ego don't exist. It is an illusion of self. I wish Leo make a video about this EGO being an illusion. But I also understand that it is VERY VERY hard to explain.

Even awareness is NOT YOU! But you don't want to let go right? You must BE something, that's what people want to keep on thinking.

[Leo Gura]

@Bruno The best way for you to grasp what ego is, is to say, "Hey Bruno!"

So who heard that?

Who registered that?

That's ego. It's simply YOU. This thing you think is reading this sentence right now.

And it doesn't exist. There is no thing reading this sentence right now.

[Bruno]

On 16/07/2016 at 9:13 PM, Mal said:

The false ego has the least amount of consciousness.  The more accurate the self sense the more consciousness, the less "heady" the person (the less identified with illusion).

That reminds me of the consciousness spectrum:

Victim--Fighter--Creator--Peace

 

[Sarah Marie]

@Bruno The ego is what makes us live the human experience. However it's not real, it's just making you feel real. 

[Kevin Dunlop]

Here is my perspective, the ego is a learned identity.  With all of its concepts including how to interpret and respond to reality, who you are, your objectives, what you see and dont see out there and inside. It is a bunch of information you agreed to believe without questioning it or knowing you were making it into your identity and letting it guide your life. This identity works invisibly and automatically so that you dont have to think about it, only a few things that your life is being set up by do you actually think about. Much more of it is the learned identity on auto pilot. 

 Now if this learned identity was really good, or had been well made we wouldnt be having this conversation. We would just be saying ¨how are you? Perfect and you? Ya perfect too. Great see ya later. ¨ But the identities we have are so full of contradictions, false information, disfunction, its rediculous. Obviously no expert put together our identities our parents and captialist society did. So we sense this dysfunction and finally realize our learned identity is so bad that we need to call it the Lower self and do something about it.  

   If we manage to edit this identity enough that we feel a whole lot better and begin understanding how it works and begin to become experts at creating a functional identity we can then call this new identity the higher self. A self aware, evolving self that finally takes over the editing of a new conscious identity.  This is where psycology helps.

Then there is a spiritual self, one that just is being. None of the concepts of any identity, whether well made or not apply to it. It doesnt need an identity to be. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Kevin Dunlop

[Consept]

@Kevin Dunlop

I get where you're coming from, but just to put of debate in there, what is the purpose of any 'identity'? Once you realise that identity itself is an illusion why would you subscribe to having one. The way i see identity is for other people to have an understanding for the purposes, of what you are, so they can 'identify' you, which is to say distinguish you from others. But what is the purpose of you having an identity for yourself? We feel we need one because we've always had one thrust upon us and to greater or lesser extents been indoctrinated to an idea of ourselves. But we can never truly know what we are, so even if you had a really good learned identity it would still be illusion, and good is relative anyway, so it would be a learned identity that most fits with whatever you think you're supposed to be. 

Identities will almost always be full of contradictions as they go against are being and are not flexible, so really someone who is comfortable in their false identity can be seen as insane in a wider sense but in a society sense completely sane. If you are 'dysfunctional' it opens your eyes to illusion so in most cases is necessary for growth. To me there is one state of being we should all be aiming for and that is simply being, in which case your natural self emerges, identity is like a mask we wear over our being 

[30secs]

even higher or lower self, that's ego! mental model about you, it's easy to say this in a logical manner but hard to really understand it, why ? because it's so easy the idea is that our mind don't believe on it:)

[Kevin Dunlop]

10 hours ago, Consept said:

@Kevin Dunlop

I get where you're coming from, but just to put of debate in there, what is the purpose of any 'identity'?     

You have pretty much answered the question for yourself here.But the purpose of the identity as far as I can tell is to get you from being a baby to not having an identity any more. Its a survival thing we create when trying to understand the examples around us as we are growing up.  Also the point of having a better identity is not making life difficult while learning how to get rid of the identity all together. Its a possible little step on the ladder some people get into. 

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Kevin Dunlop

[Emerald]

On July 15, 2016 at 3:06 PM, Bruno said:

Is the ego the lower-self ?

or the lower-self  is the ego when it's threatened ?

The way the ego is described is as "Who you think you are, your personal identity", so, it means that the ego is the self-image right ?

But the way the ego is usually refereed to usually looks like it's an entity living inside the "I", inside me, like it is all the petty low consciousness stuff on me, exactly like the lower-self.

So, is the higher-self part of the ego ?

The higher self and lower self is a false dichotomy because all is one. However, it is a great metaphor. The lower self is the ego self that you think you are right now. The higher self is what you are existentially. It is the self that you realize that you've always been when you are enlightened which already knows everything that you need to know as a human being. It is infinite. You live in tune with the higher self, when you see through the illusion of the separate self an no longer need to obscure and block out parts of reality to protect this false self. So, the higher self is already what you are, just remove the illusions created by the ego and it is what you are. When fear of harm to the self dissipates, clarity is what's left. The lower self isn't even an entity... it's just the illusion that you aren't already the higher self. 

[Ayla]

@Bruno , EVERYTHING that can be described, is "lower-self". So in that sense, "low" means to interpret. 

Now there is no thing apart from SELF, so how could we find a lower and a higher? In regards to what reference point? 

So in the end, if you want, the only thing that can be low about Self, is the individual belief in it, or the illusion of individuality. 

 

[Consept]

@Ayla Lower/higher self is a concept, just like anything that can be described. But its designed like anything to attempt to understand something that on a mind level is not understandable. As long as you realise its not reality and just a metaphor, do you think it has value in that form?

[Ayla]

3 hours ago, Consept said:

@Ayla Lower/higher self is a concept, just like anything that can be described. But its designed like anything to attempt to understand something that on a mind level is not understandable. As long as you realise its not reality and just a metaphor, do you think it has value in that form?

It will have its value as long as something gives value to it, then... it won't anymore I suppose.

[cetus]

5 hours ago, Consept said:

 Lower/higher self is a concept, just like anything that can be described. But its designed like anything to attempt to understand something that on a mind level is not understandable. As long as you realise its not reality and just a metaphor, do you think it has value in that form?

@Consept Just this weekend my girlfriend was asking me why I meditate and pursue enlightenment. I had to resort to using higher/lower self so that it could be understood within a conceptual framework. It made it straight forward without getting too deep. I told her the lower was the self identity/body and the higher self is a spiritual self that is everything and has no beginning or end. I kept it real simple. Probably for the best.

 

[Consept]

@cetus56 Yeah best way to be honest, it literally can't be explained with words lol, and even saying that will confuse people even more. I think the lower\higher self is a decent metaphor and easy to imagine