Is the Red Pill True?

[IJB063]

“All is fair in love and war” - John Lyly's Euphues

I thought that quote above kinda applies to this topic.

 

So heres a caveat anyway before I start, this is probably gonna be a long post as I write this, but I’ll try to keep it short.

Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to read.

So I’ve seen regularly on this forum, and pretty much all over the internet the idea of the “red pill”.

So first off here’s how I think is the red pill (if anyone’s got any different definitions share them).

So originally the “red pill” comes from these guys who are called pick up artists or PUAs. 

And what PUAs are, is a bunch of guys who came together to learn basically how to get laid, and “pick up” a girl for casual sexual encounters.

The main idea is that getting laid is basically a skill, as a woman is pretty much right off the bat sexually attractive to most men, where as, as a man, most women are not sexually attracted to you.

So what PUAs do is to teach men how to become sexually attractive to women, basically to sell themselves to women, like the skill of learning to sell a car, to show that they’re high value, and that PUAs can teach a bunch of tricks that can help a man better his chances of getting laid.

So this gave regular guys who have trouble with women hope, as by saying “hey listen, getting women isn’t just some inherent genetic gift that domes guys have and others don’t,  getting girls isn't only about looks and money etc…, no, it’s a skill that you can learn”, . The hope this gave was to help, what PUAs called AFCs (average frustrated chumps) to become attractive to women, if they just learn the skills.

What came from learning these skills were a series of concepts that PUAs created from their observations when trying to “game” these women, many of them are pseudo scientific, though some of there reasoning I don’t find faulty and find actually are backed by my own personal experiences with women and make perfect sense with my own understanding of evolutionary psychology (hence the point of this post).

So as the PUAs started building these concepts and backing them in science etc… this then became the red pill, reading from this article linked here, the idea of the red pill comes from the matrix.

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/internet/2017/02/reddit-the-red-pill-interview-how-misogyny-spreads-online

“In practice, to “swallow the Red Pill” is to accept the uncomfortable truth about reality. The phrase comes from 1999’s hit film The Matrix, in which the protagonist Neo must choose between the Red Pill – which would allow him to escape the Matrix but see the real, darker world – and the Blue Pill – continued existence in his comfortable, but ultimately fake, life.”

 

So the main idea of the red pill, is that there is this separation between most men who are deluded (the blue pilled) and the knowledgeable men (the red pilled).

And that most men have been lured into false beliefs about the dynamics between men and women, not because these beliefs are true, but because, they instead serve the interest of society, for men and women to be deluded. 

For an example, the blue pill would be that men and women are blank slates from birth, that the only reasons that they’re are any differences in behaviour or cognition between men and women is sociologically not biological. 

Where as the red pill, would be the idea that they’re biological hard wired differences between men and women’s natures, because of evolutionary reasons, that make us act and think differently.

Read this book if interested -

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate

This I would say is the main “red pill”.

But there are dozens of other ideas that stem from that, that help explain a lot of what’s current going on in society from a sort of anthropological perspective .

Now what sprouts from the red pill are a bunch of different groups, such as 

-PUAs (pick you artists - guys who try to bang a bunch of women) 

-MRAs (men’s rights activists - I think this kinda fits into the red pill a little)

-Incels (involuntary celibates - basically virgins)

-MGTOWs (men going their own way - men who don’t associate with women)

Etc…

All these people to varying degrees take red pill info and draw different conclusions from it, I’m sure there are probs other groups, but these are the ones that I can think of right now of the top of my head. When I’m asking about if the red pill is true, I am not talking about any of these individual groups, but some of the overall concepts that unite them.

These groups being united and sharing in common this fundamental red pill understanding, that questions widespread social norms, conventions and pre established ways of thinking.

So recently I’ve went down an internet rabbit hole looking into these groups and what they believe on social media, YouTube etc… and a lot of what I listened to were pretty much things that I already knew, (some of the time - other times it was bullshit) but these guys kinda broke it down and systemised it, turning this stuff into a science.

Now there’s a lot of stigma and controversy around the red pill, as they’re perceived as misogynists, bitter, womanisers etc… 

Now I’d definitely say a lot of that it true, but I think generally it’s unfair and is used as a way to dismiss these concepts, and addressing these people and their struggles. But as the quote taken from the article says, the red pill reveals a colder and darker world, that a lot of people don’t like as it can be seen as depressing, if all you life you had this one idea, and it turns out to be wrong.

Do you think that are lies that we’re sold by culture about relations between men and women?

If not why?

And if you do believe there are lies than you basically accept the basic idea of the red pill, and then from there all these guys are trying to do is point out these lies, some people better than others. Anyway would like to hear some thoughts on this.

 

Cheers

[Preety_India]

 

Imo.... Not saying this is the general opinion or this is how it is. 

Redpill = sexist male bullshit. 

These are male sexism apologists. They will do anything to not change their minds. And they have existed since time immemorial. These are not quality people with quality relationships. 

The get their ideas about women from low quality relationships.. They use it to generalize all women. 

Male female dynamics go deep and a lot to do with social conditioning along with biology.

Most of these men do not have or never had a functional relationship with a woman.  A real woman.. 

There is one simplest way to debunk all you have written trying to pass it of as truth 

Any man with a working functional relationship with a woman and who doesn't need looks or money to attract women, will he ever join the following groups? 

 

PUAs (pick you artists - guys who try to bang a bunch of women) 

-MRAs (men’s rights activists - I think this kinda fits into the red pill a little)

-Incels (involuntary celibates - basically virgins)

-MGTOWs (men going their own way - men who don’t associate with women)

 

The flat out answer is no. Because a happy man doesn't need to have theories on how women are. He cares more about being happy with her rather than thinking about how to keep her or himself  happy.. 

All these groups represent frustrated and bitter men who seek a justification for their frustration through a Twisted philosophy to match their inner state of mind.. It's Called self deception not truth. Self deception masquerading as truth. 

It's like the tale of the fox and the grapes. If the grapes are out of reach, the fox automatically assumes the grapes aren't worth eating because they are sour anyway. 

Same thing. These men find a way to pigeonhole women into character roles so that they can legitimize their lack of success. They are unable to accept that they are fundamentally lacking something that creates a lacuna in their relationships. So to round it off, they go around spewing their sexist philosophy to avoid having to justify the lack of sustaining and healthy relationship with a female in their lives. So what do they do? They turn into womanizers and then justify it so that they don't have to feel guilty about having shitty one night stands with women. 

All the science they speak of based on empirical evidence acquired from relationships with a low quality crowd. If they have to be with a high conscious high quality woman, they will get instantly rejected and they will never stand a chance. Obviously they won't even try and try to make the woman look unattractive to justify them being rejected..

All these men have to do is work harder on their manhood and be good quality men in the first place to attract good quality women. But they don't wanna do that. They don't want to change. So they take the short cut and blame everything on women and gender politics, feminism and biology. God made men and women perfect in their biologies. And good men understand this biology and don't exploit it, but rather align with it. The left over men are not interested in understanding the biology of a woman and they bring up distorted theories to suit their worldview.. 

Red pill is garbage and red pill is lies.. And the matrix analogy is simply to make it look new-agey. 

Red pill is the most dangerous philosophy in the world that consumes men and makes them toxic. If you want happiness, then don't fall into it. 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Preety_India

[IJB063]

@Preety_India

14 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Imo.... Not saying this is the general opinion or this is how it is. 

At least you know it’s just an opinion

14 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Redpill = sexist male bullshit. 

A lot of it is, but the entire point of the red pill is = the truth, it might not be flattering but it is what it is, a lot of the guys who point out the truth may be sexist but you separate what’s being said from who’s saying it, the shit that’s being said could come from a talking parrot, is it true though? 

17 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

These are male sexism apologists. They will do anything to not change their minds. And they have existed since time immemorial. These are not quality people with quality relationships. 

Most people don’t want there Mind changed. A lot of them are sexists (though they don’t apologise for it). Most people aren’t “quality” people.

18 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The get their ideas about women from low quality relationships.. They use it to generalize all women. 

Male female dynamics go deep and a lot to do with social conditioning along with biology.

Most of these men do not have or never had a functional relationship with a woman.  A real woman.. 

Sure, most people are low quality (depending upon what you mean by quality)

Generalisations aren’t necessarily bad if are they true

I’d say all social conditioning stems from biology, why would society be the way it is if not for biological underpinnings?

A real woman is again a social convention 

You have been talking a lot about “quality”, and really all it is, is the reinforcement of these rigid gender roles

Here's an experiment I recommend you do right now

Put into google "what makes a real man" or just "real man" and then put into google "what makes a real woman" or just "real woman", check the images and quotes and maybe read a webpage or two to get a general gist of the gender dynamic.

If you're paying attention you will quickly see the imposed cultural contract. Now despite our culture claiming to value equalitarianism, what you’ll see is we don’t. That’s something the red pill points out, that we’re pigeonholed into roles of “real men” and “real women”, and I find it derogatory. Just because you don’t fit into a role society foists upon you does not mean you’re not real or not quality.

All it seems to me is that you’re demonising and shaming these men, who’ve had negative with the opposite sex, from drawing and recognising patterns from these experiences.

29 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Any man with a working functional relationship with a woman and who doesn't need looks or money to attract women, will he ever join the following groups? 

Probably not, because he doesn’t need to. What makes men look into the “red pill” usually is some forum trauma, your right, where a belief gets shattered or someone betrays them. To shame these men for that I find is wrong.

33 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The flat out answer is no. Because a happy man doesn't need to have theories on how women are. He cares more about being happy with her rather than thinking about how to keep her or himself  happy.. 

Until that man gets burnt because of his ignorance and then seek the truth (the red pill - that’s all the metaphor is).

34 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

All these groups represent frustrated and bitter men who seek a justification for their frustration through a Twisted philosophy to match their inner state of mind.. It's Called self deception not truth. Self deception masquerading as truth. 

So far you haven’t stated anything about the red pill being false, you’ve just said that they’re self deceived, low quality, bitter and not real men, not why they are self deceived though.

35 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

It's like the tale of the fox and the grapes. If the grapes are out of reach, the fox automatically assumes the grapes aren't worth eating because they are sour anyway. 

This is the incel phenomenon, to some degree. Though many of them just hate themselves and pedestalize women. Yet again all your doing is shaming these men.

37 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Same thing. These men find a way to pigeonhole women into character roles so that they can legitimize their lack of success. They are unable to accept that they are fundamentally lacking something that creates a lacuna in their relationships. So to round it off, they go around spewing their sexist philosophy to avoid having to justify the lack of sustaining and healthy relationship with a female in their lives. So what do they do? They turn into womanizers and then justify it so that they don't have to feel guilty about having shitty one night stands with women. 

So according to you, the red pill exists because these men can’t maintain healthy relationships with women, so they grow resentful of women and stereotype them. Creating a philosophy around that to justify there own shortcomings.

I agree with some of what you said.

Though I think plenty of “red pilled” men have perfectly healthy and functioning relationship with women, which there are dozens of example of. And I would say a lot of them don’t pigeonholed women, there’s a difference between stereotyping and pigeon-holding. 
 

Note - my phone on 1% and I don’t want to lose what I’ve written, I’ll come back to this when I recharge my phone, I’m just gonna post what I’ve written for now

[IJB063]

@Preety_India

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

All the science they speak of based on empirical evidence acquired from relationships with a low quality crowd. If they have to be with a high conscious high quality woman, they will get instantly rejected and they will never stand a chance. Obviously they won't even try and try to make the woman look unattractive to justify them being rejected..

No, the science they speak off is widely accepted by the scientific community, basic biology, evolution, psychology, endocrinology etc... It’s not just a bunch of guys anecdotes, but when you take the anecdotes of 100s of thousands of men you begin to find patterns that aren’t just the result of low quality men, but if human nature, that can be recognised, understood, and systemised 

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

All these men have to do is work harder on their manhood and be good quality men in the first place to attract good quality women. But they don't wanna do that. They don't want to change. So they take the short cut and blame everything on women and gender politics, feminism and biology. God made men and women perfect in their biologies. And good men understand this biology and don't exploit it, but rather align with it. The left over men are not interested in understanding the biology of a woman and they bring up distorted theories to suit their worldview.. 

This paragraph I found funny for a lot of reasons, mainly because a lot of the red pill men that I listen to are always on about working harder and becoming a bigger and badder motherfucker e.g. 

I can find you tonnes of masculine, intelligent and decent men, who are in no way bitter and in no way can’t get women, who obsess over constant change and actualisation to develop themselves into better men

God made us perfect, I don’t know that depends on your perspective 

I obviously believe in working on yourself and you be in no way bitter or resentful and should take personally responsibility for your own position in life, I lot of red pill ideology is about that

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Red pill is garbage and red pill is lies.. And the matrix analogy is simply to make it look new-agey

I dont the red pill is garbage, although a lot of it is, and I wouldn’t consider it lies because it’s not conscious manipulation by the men who are wrong. The matrix analogy is just a good metaphor that was used straight after the movie came out, there is no cabal of secret red pill men who came up with the term because they’re new agers.

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

Red pill is the most dangerous philosophy in the world that consumes men and makes them toxic. If you want happiness, then don't fall into it. 

“Most dangerous philosophy in the world“ lol

Not radical Islamism, not national socialism, no

The red pill lol

That hyperbole say a lot more about you than it does about these men your lambasting 

The red pill is simply the truth, what you do with that is up to you

[IJB063]

@Preety_India

If you want to know where I’m coming from when I think of the red pill watch that “do the work” video I just linked above, it explains things quite well

[tenta]

PUA advice is false and will not make you more attractive to women, you need good social status, looks, especially face and especially no bigger flaws, a deep voice etc.

Edited May 31, 2020 by tenta

[IJB063]

@tenta

PUA advice literally covers that as 

Social Proof

And obviously being better looking and not having flaws is beneficial 

A lot of PUA advice is sound 

You haven’t said anything specific that is false, so what specifically do you disagree with?

 

[IJB063]

@tenta

38 minutes ago, tenta said:

PUA advice is false and will not make you more attractive to women, you need good social status, looks, especially face and especially no bigger flaws, a deep voice etc.

Lol no PUA is going to disagree with you

”Hey, listen he kid, to get the girls you got to be ugly, fat, have big flaws in your looks, especially your face, and you got to be a friendless loser, trust me kid, that’s the best way to get duh girls”

[Hello from Russia]

Don't associate red pill vomit with PUA, lol.

These guys exist in polar opposites ends of the spectrum, red pills are pure victims, PUA's are more about taking responsibility, red pill is more about manipulating women and disrespecting them, PUA is more focused on providing value, giving love and fun to women and being equal and opposite partners to them and sort of going for win-win(-win). You can't really take the enlightened approach with Redpill, while with PUA - you can, because PUA is not based on ideology that much.
You seem to have mistaken low level of PUA for redpill.

See the example of what real PUA is on the link below and read a book about Casanova, you'll quickly notice the difference, if you are openminded, of course

https://www.travelbumcoaching.com/

Edited May 31, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[h inandout]

I see that you have healthy skepticism and are willing to engage with uncomfortable opinions for the sake of cultivating a broader perspective.  I see no issue with this.  You aren't going to take this stuff so seriously that you damage your own integrity by applying it out of context, or by not really assessing the roots of the theory.

If I'm at a coffee shop and waiting in line, I don't care what age or gender you are, if you stop to create small talk with me, I will engage with you because ATTENTION is a human need, and is especially appreciated amongst women.  I hope that your end goal with me isn't meaningless sex or manipulation.  I am learning to bring more of that radiant solar energy to everything I do in life because it actually feeds me back to "pick-up" acquaintances.

I have an issue when a guy is talking to me and then tries to guilt trip me about talking back to him like I was just being a tease.  For f's sake, I can't have a conversation even?  Guys also should be using conversation to assess long term compatibility.  But especially, remember that if you want something REAL with someone else, you have to recognize that relationships require serious time and energy on both ends.  So, while getting to the goods might be a nice image in your head, really RESPECT should prominent.  Respect is so insanely sexy.  Respect is soooo sexy.  Just talk with women because they enjoy talking and you are being kind to them, and then lean in gently if it feels right.

Like seriously, if you respect me more than I've been taught to respect myself, it gives me permission to feel safe, to open up around you, to trust you.  If you lean back gently sometimes, it helps me feel into the work you are putting in, and makes it easier for me to genuinely cultivate respect for you.   

Edited May 31, 2020 by h inandout

[IJB063]

@Hello from Russia

12 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Don't associate red pill vomit with PUA, lol.

What exactly about red pill is “vomit”

Also if you look into the history of the “red pill” you’ll find that it originated from PUA and books like Mystery Method and The Game by Neil Strauss 

13 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

These guys exist in polar opposites ends of the spectrum, red pills are pure victims, PUA's are more about taking responsibility, red pill is more about manipulating women and disrespecting them, PUA is more focused on providing value, giving love and fun to women and being equal and opposite partners to them and sort of going for win-win(-win). You can't really take the enlightened approach with Redpill, while with PUA - you can, because PUA is not based on ideology that much.
You seem to have mistaken low level of PUA for redpill.

I believe if you the wrong impression of the red pill, definitely some of them are victims, but the red pill is a very large encapsulating group. I think that you’re the one that’s mistaken.

15 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

See the example of what real PUA is on the link below and read a book about Casanova, you'll quickly notice the difference, if you are openminded, of course

I’ll check the link out later, I already know about Casanova 

[IJB063]

@h inandout

14 minutes ago, h inandout said:

I see that you have healthy skepticism and are willing to engage with uncomfortable opinions for the sake of cultivating a broader perspective.  I see no issue with this.  You aren't going to take this stuff so seriously that you damage your own integrity by applying it out of context, or by not really assessing the roots of the theory.

I try to, I don’t understand why people aren’t willing to engage any ideas

I take the truth seriously (kinda)

16 minutes ago, h inandout said:

If I'm at a coffee shop and waiting in line, I don't care what age or gender you are, if you stop to create small talk with me, I will engage with you because ATTENTION is a human need, and is especially appreciated amongst women.  I hope that your end goal with me isn't meaningless sex or manipulation.  I am learning to bring more of that radiant solar energy to everything I do in life because it actually feeds me back to "pick-up" acquaintances.

Hunter S Thompson said

“Sex without love is as hollow and ridiculous as love without sex“

18 minutes ago, h inandout said:

have an issue when a guy is talking to me and then tries to guilt trip me about talking back to him like I was just being a tease.  For f's sake, I can't have a conversation even?  Guys also should be using conversation to assess long term compatibility.  But especially, remember that if you want something REAL with someone else, you have to recognize that relationships require serious time and energy on both ends.  So, while getting to the goods might be a nice image in your head, really RESPECT should prominent.  Respect is so insanely sexy.  Respect is soooo sexy.  Just talk with women because they enjoy talking and you are being kind to them, and then lean in gently if it feels right.

Respect is sexy sounds like bullshit to me

Many women find men sexy that don’t respect them

Respect is sexy just sounds like the right thing to say

19 minutes ago, h inandout said:

Like seriously, if you respect me more than I've been taught to respect myself, it gives me permission to feel safe, to open up around you, to trust you.  If you lean back gently sometimes, it helps me feel into the work you are putting in, and makes it easier for me to genuinely cultivate respect for you.   

 

[Roy]

I think the red pill more or less has some truths to it, but it's not holistic enough and comes from a place of biased and selfish orientation.

The thing I find most annoying is co-opting the pill scene from The Matrix....... makes people who fully believe in it think they're so fucking clever......lol

Anyways yes culture does lie to us, about a great many things. It's all unconscious though, it's not really a malicious force that we should fear like so many people start to feel after they discover that some things are lies. People as individuals should just do the work to uncover and deprogram themselves from it. Instead of forming counter-cults and ideologies. Which helps slightly but causes a new set of problems to arise.

I mean that's why we're all here for the most part, to learn how uncover ourselves from the bullshit. Without turning Actualized.Org into the same thing hopefully.

[IJB063]

@Roy

10 minutes ago, Roy said:

I think the red pill more or less has some truths to it, but it's not holistic enough and comes from a place of biased and selfish orientation.

The red pill doesn’t have to come from a place of bias and selfishness, but tell what group that has any popularity that doesn’t?

11 minutes ago, Roy said:

The thing I find most annoying is co-opting the pill scene from The Matrix....... makes people who fully believe in it think they're so fucking clever......lol

Yeah I agree 100%
Its really comes back to dunning kruger 

12 minutes ago, Roy said:

Anyways yes culture does lie to us, about a great many things. It's all unconscious though, it's not really a malicious force that we should fear like so many people start to feel after they discover that some things are lies. People as individuals should just do the work to uncover and deprogram themselves from it. Instead of forming counter-cults and ideologies. Which helps slightly but causes a new set of problems to arise.

Yeah, and you’re not any less of a man for acknowledging that we’re lied to, and that the truth is uncomfortable

There’s a Nietzsche quote along the lines of

”In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” 
 

The moment a bunch of ideas turn into an ideology is usually the minute it becomes goofy

15 minutes ago, Roy said:

mean that's why we're all here for the most part, to learn how uncover ourselves from the bullshit. Without turning Actualized.Org into the same thing hopefully.

Amen  

 

[h inandout]

26 minutes ago, IJB063 said:

Respect is sexy sounds like bullshit to me

Do you really believe this?  Maybe we have different definitions of respect.

[IJB063]

@h inandout

I believe that a man that does not respect a woman is subtly communicating to that woman that he is better than her

A man that is respectful to a woman is at the very least presenting himself as her equal 

Women don’t want a man who is there equal, they want a man who is there better 

That’s why they are sexually attracted to and fuck dickheads because those men are showing that they have options, that they are confident and they are better than them

[h inandout]

Well, as someone who wound up with one of those dickheads and destroyed my life as a result, I can sincerely say, I regret that.

I wish my mom had taught me it's okay to pursue relationships, then I wouldn't have had to wait for a literal con artist before I opened up to the idea of dating.  

I also wish the way more awesome young men around me hadn't chased me away by saying unnecessary shit like, "I'm better than you at math."  Or, "Seriously, condoms aren't necessary," or really even just neglecting to date me properly.

I hope I can find someone who has the courage to turn up the heat, but the awareness to cool it down too.  Oxytocin enmeshes you in bad decisions.  As soon as you put pressure on someone to do or engage in something they are not totally okay with, they shut down on a subconscious level and then do it anyways even though it feels aweful.  Respect has something to do with recognizing that we are creating a relationship bubble in the real world where potential for pain is so very real. 

I would say respect combines the courage to turn it up and the awareness to cool it down.  It's like riding waves of moving closer and stepping back.  It also requires self-respect on both parties.  Unfortunately it takes a long time to learn self-respect.  I think Scott Pilgrim versus the world is a good movie for this.

[IJB063]

@h inandout

5 minutes ago, h inandout said:

Well, as someone who wound up with one of those dickheads and destroyed my life as a result, I can sincerely say, I regret that.

Sorry to hear that

5 minutes ago, h inandout said:

I wish my mom had taught me it's okay to pursue relationships, then I wouldn't have had to wait for a literal con artist before I opened up to the idea of dating.  

No offence, I believe its the role of the father not the mother to give her daughter a positive male role model in her life, so that his daughter knows what to accept and not accept in men, thats why they call it daddy issues

7 minutes ago, h inandout said:

I also wish the way more awesome young men around me hadn't chased me away by saying unnecessary shit like, "I'm better than you at math."  Or, "Seriously, condoms aren't necessary," or really even just neglecting to date me properly.

Is it everyone else that is wrong or is it you? When does it become your responsibility for what you tolerate in a relationship and not the lack of awesome men, but people aren't awesome, most people are mediocre, birds of a feather flock together, quality attracts quality, shit attracts flies

9 minutes ago, h inandout said:

I hope I can find someone who has the courage to turn up the heat, but the awareness to cool it down too.  Oxytocin enmeshes you in bad decisions.  As soon as you put pressure on someone to do or engage in something they are not totally okay with, they shut down on a subconscious level and then do it anyways even though it feels aweful.  Respect has something to do with recognizing that we are creating a relationship bubble in the real world where potential for pain is so very real. 

Good luck with that

I think thats what the red pill can do, to help create awesome young men who now how to tune the nosel so to speak

10 minutes ago, h inandout said:

I would say respect combines the courage to turn it up and the awareness to cool it down.  It's like riding waves of moving closer and stepping back.  It also requires self-respect on both parties.  Unfortunately it takes a long time to learn self-respect.  I think Scott Pilgrim versus the world is a good movie for this.

Before you enter into a relationship, especially the most intimate relationships, you have to have some level of self respect so you know what you will and won't tolerate

Lol - Scott Pilgrim seems like a terrible example for this, the guys like a dog jumping through flaming hoops for some girls mild amusement as she toys with him throughout the whole movie, in the end he fucks of with that other asian girl anyways, to be fair I havent seen that movie in years so maybe I'm wrong

[h inandout]

4 minutes ago, IJB063 said:

When does it become your responsibility

I believe my looking at my family dynamic after realizing that my life wasn't working out was me taking responsibility.  It is me reparenting myself.

4 minutes ago, IJB063 said:

I believe its the role of the father not the mother to give her daughter a positive male role model

In my case, I would actually say my step-Dad is a freakin badass and did damn good by us, even adopted me.  I have a better relationship with him than my mom or biological dad.  My mom, however, had remaining fears and traumas and shame that I repeated unknowingly.  I have to believe that there are men like my step-dad out there, but even he went through quite a bit of darkness before he adopted me and my family.

[h inandout]

It's a long movie, so to summarize in gifs...