What do you think of mindfully suffering?

[Akemrelax]

So I've been thinking that it may not be true that suffering must be avoided at all costs, or that spirituality is something that is anti-suffering. I would like to question the general assumption that happiness is the ultimate goal here. 

I think suffering, strife, sadness, struggle, and grief can be beautiful experiences too. Sort of like when parents work hard to ensure a good life for their children or a lover doing something very difficult for his/her love. We like that suffering. There is a 1st order happiness behind the veneer of suffering. It seems we like to do irrational things and suffer all because of Love. So therefore, it is not happiness but Love/passion/obsession which is greater than superficial happiness. This perhaps breaks the duality between suffering and happiness?

What do you say?

[IAmTheHolySpirit]

In recognition of the true self, "suffering, strife, sadness, struggle and grief" might still appear. They appear but they are perceived to be momentary. You are simply not attached to these thoughts/emotions/sensations and so they don't stick on you. You must be sad for a few moments but quickly you are crystal-clear and present and aware of your true nature.

Nobody is saying that suffering, strife, sadness, struggle and grief are not beautiful, but they are only beautiful from the perspective of the truth. The one who is suffering, does not feel that his suffering is beautiful. So then, we must transcend the egoic-mind which is not able to perceive suffering as beautiful. 

It is only from your oneness that you can perceive the beauty of the duality. In duality you have no sense of duality, you are completely lost. You are completely identifying with the egoic-mind. In that place of suffering, there is no one to perceive it as beautiful. And that is a shame. This is a life wasted in identifying with the mind, identifying with suffering, strife, sadness, struggle and grief.

The experiences themselves are not the problem, but when you (pure consciousness) identify yourself as these experiences, it is pure foolishness.

Truth is not about appreciating foolishness. Someone doing "hard work" for someone else because of their attachment that they call "love" is foolishness. You must not appreciate it, because it is pure foolishness. No one must "work hard" for anything and anyone. One must only be one with their own heart. 

You say "parents work hard to ensure a good life for their children" but what is this other than a thought? What hard work is anyone on this planet doing?

We think a lot of unnecessary crap in our mind and any activity becomes "hard work" simply because you are thinking so much. Instead of cleaning the dishes you think "there are so many dishes to clean... when will this end... why am I doing it??" and after that you'll go to your mom and say "yea mom I did so much hard work today, I cleaned up all of the dishes!" you literally did nothing but clean dishes. It is not hard work. It is only the mind saying it is hard work.

You must live life effortlessly, because you are one with life. Life does not do "hard work" to be itself. There is no need for such beliefs. It is only holding you back from the ever-present truth that is consciousness itself. Be aware of being aware.

You say "We like that suffering" but who is that who likes the suffering? It is the sufferer itself that in retrospect loves the suffering. In that moment it is very painful, it is very foolish to suffer in that way so absurdly. It is mad completely. Human beings are not meant to suffer and have attachments to suffering. It is very unnatural. The one who "likes" suffering is merely the mind. The mind doesn't want to let go of the suffering, because only in suffering can the mind exist. The mind, suffering can't exist in a peaceful, serene mind of the supreme self. And so it will make you believe "I love suffering" but you must not believe this thought. You do not like suffering, it is only a thought. The impersonal supreme self does not care about suffering. It wouldn't think twice about it. It is merely another phenomenon perceived within consciousness. It doesn't get attached to it and says "But I like suffering" because it doesn't give a single flying fuck about suffering, about grief, about sadness, about love, about joy, about peace, it actually is completely detached and impersonal, has absolutely no interest in anything. It simply is. And that is what you are. Be aware of being aware. When you are aware of being aware, you are successfully "just being". That is wonderful. Remain as you are. 

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It seems we like to do irrational things and suffer all because of Love. So therefore, it is not happiness but Love/passion/obsession which is greater than superficial happiness. This perhaps breaks the duality between suffering and happiness?

We don't do irrational things and suffer because of love, actually what you believe to be "love" is just "attachment".

Replace the word "love" with attachment, because you are talking about attachment, not love. Love is universal, it is beyond duality, attachment/passion/obession are not love, and they are not greater than true happiness. I don't know what you mean by "superficial happiness", I don't think anyone is seeking that here. 

Currently you are attached more than you are aware of your true nature.

You must be more aware of your true nature than you are attached.

Edited May 31, 2020 by IAmTheHolySpirit

[James123]

@Akemrelax when you lose everything you are free to do anything. Suffering is essential to comprehend the unconditional love.Die before you die.

[Akemrelax]

@IAmTheHolySpirit Sorry, I completely disagree.

Detachment is a small part of Love. Attachment is part of Love, so is suffering. 

Don’t kid yourself. You’re as attached as anybody. As long as you’re alive you’re attached. If you were truly detached you wouldn’t care if you were alive or dead. You would just sit and let go of everything.

Life is suffering. We can learn to not view it as bad or negative. 

If you want to live (which most of us want) then you’re by default attached. You have preferences, values, likes, dislikes, etc, etc. The pursuit of Truth is itself an attachment. 

Passion is necessary to live a good life. You need passion to find Truth. Leo cover this topic extensively in Life Advice for Young People Part 1. 

Passion is really important.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Akemrelax

[Akemrelax]

10 hours ago, James123 said:

@Akemrelax when you lose everything you are free to do anything. Suffering is essential to comprehend the unconditional love.Die before you die.

Ya absolutely.

[Nak Khid]

Mindfully suffering  is exactly what's necessary 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Nak Khid