Enlightenment Without Awakening

[JayG84]

I don't know what Awakening is supposed to feel like. I've never had an "Awakening" experience the way that I think it might feel like. Like waking up from a dream or something. I understand that reality is a dream though, intuitively. But do you actually see the "substance" of consciousness when you awaken?

I think I'm pretty close to fully understanding the reality that I live in on an "Intuitive" level. I have done so much self-inquiry that I'm conscious of what my ego is doing almost all the time. I recognize that my thoughts, perceptions, and beliefs are imaginary, and there is no serperation between anything. I accept reality exactly how it is and I think that it's perfect and beautiful, and I try to Love every facet of it. 

Is this close to what they call Enlightenment? Is there a definite "barrier" that you cross when you "Awaken"? Do you go anywhere? Like waking up from the Matrix or something? Does it "Look" different? Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace? Is the intuitive knowledge that you are ONE and that the self is an illusion good enough?

Edited May 29, 2020 by JayG84

[loub]

While very valuable in navigating through life, intuition in the end won't cut it when it comes to becoming conscious of the truth. Intuition always leads toward something, and nothing  can contain the truth, as it contains all.

Sounds to me like you have developed some refined beliefs, leading you to doubt your experience which is rather ineffective compared to investigating it, which comes from openness and not-knowing, rather than preconceived fantasies.

I would suggest dropping all ideas of how it feels like and how it will change things. Yes, there will be gradual changing after awakening as decades of feeding into the separate self and it's tensions and fears slowly come to an end, but those changes do not change what is true. If truth were dependent on how it is expressed, it would not be true right now, right?

 

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I recognize that my thoughts, perceptions, and beliefs are imaginary, and there is no separation between anything. I accept reality exactly how it is and I think that it's perfect and beautiful, and I try to Love every facet of it.

Is that recognition based on belief or authentic experience?

Edited May 29, 2020 by loub

[JayG84]

3 minutes ago, loub said:

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I recognize that my thoughts, perceptions, and beliefs are imaginary, and there is no separation between anything. I accept reality exactly how it is and I think that it's perfect and beautiful, and I try to Love every facet of it.

Is that recognition based on belief or authentic experience?

It's based on intuitively knowing through self-inquiry. When I deconstruct things far enough, this is the only thing that feels true. 

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, JayG84 said:

I understand that reality is a dream though, intuitively. But do you actually see the "substance" of consciousness when you awaken?

It's closer to feeling than seeing the substance. Not everyone has an awakening experience, for some the ego falls away slowly over a long period of time without a significant experience.

2 hours ago, JayG84 said:

Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace? Is the intuitive knowledge that you are ONE and that the self is an illusion good enough?

It's not enlightenment but let the intuition guide you to realization.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by WelcometoReality

[Nahm]

It is infinitely more radical than anything you’ve yet considered or could ever imagine. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm Yet also the most simple and obvious “thing” ever. 

The beautiful paradox of awakening the mind will never comprehend  

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm what film is that from, looks like a good late night comedic watch! 

[JayG84]

22 minutes ago, Nahm said:

It is infinitely more radical than anything you’ve yet considered or could ever imagine. 

 

15 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Lol...nice.

Have you gotten there through just pure inquiry? 

I can imagine that its probably is a radical sling-shot into Infinity when you're on 5-meo or something. I've never taken a phychedelic, and I'm not really interested in doing so. I'm not against it, just rather a slow and steady aproach.

What I'm interested in though is how it feels everyday when you've reached Enlightenment. Like I'm pretty sure we can't be in mind-blowing tripping balls ectasy all the time right? But how to you go about in the world after you Awaken? Or is awakening just a temporary experience you have that you always come back to "Normal"

Is it possible to just "slow and steady" it to the same feeling people have who have had many Awakenings?

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, JayG84 said:

Im pretty sure we can't be in mind-blowing tripping balls ectasy all the time right?

You’d be surprised... The ecstasy is a lot calmer and clearer than a trip but its pretty mind blowing what happens when you commit to this work. Tripping helps give you contrast to a state heavily steeped in mind vs a state where mind is gone. The contrast helps when we return to our sober state. 

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4

Planes Trains & automobiles. 

 

 

2 hours ago, JayG84 said:

Have you gotten there through just pure inquiry? 

Meditation, inquiring self / reality, like how is there here if there is a thought. 

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I can imagine that its probably is a radical sling-shot into Infinity when you're on 5-meo or something. I've never taken a phychedelic, and I'm not really interested in doing so. I'm not against it, just rather a slow and steady approach.

It’s all relative...up to you.  

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What I'm interested in though is how it feels everyday when you've reached Enlightenment. Like I'm pretty sure we can't be in mind-blowing tripping balls ectasy all the time right?

Transcend the mind and you’ll see we can’t escape this mind blowing tripping balls ecstasy. 

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But how to you go about in the world after you Awaken?

Woke. 

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 Or is awakening just a temporary experience you have that you always come back to "Normal"

Imagine going somewhere but before you get there where you were didn’t exist and where you are going is contingent upon where you came from. 

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Is it possible to just "slow and steady" it to the same feeling people have who have had many Awakenings?

Yes but in truth there is no actuality to that comparison. What appears to forget simply forgets to appear. Thought is only a pointer to feel this. 

[EnlightenmentBlog]

I think you have a valid awakening. There's always degrees to it. 

You can try to include your body in the process. There's yoga and psychedelics. Why not explore?

[traveler]

19 hours ago, JayG84 said:

But do you actually see the "substance" of consciousness when you awaken?

There is no substance.

I think I'm pretty close to fully understanding the reality that I live in on an "Intuitive" level. I have done so much self-inquiry that I'm conscious of what my ego is doing almost all the time. I recognize that my thoughts, perceptions, and beliefs are imaginary, and there is no serperation between anything. I accept reality exactly how it is and I think that it's perfect and beautiful, and I try to Love every facet of it. 

Is this close to what they call Enlightenment?

Being conscious of there being an ego is the ego. The ego has no choice but fuel it's own existence. By trying to escape ego, you're declaring the existence of it. The ego is not real, you are not real, this is everything, ego is everything appearing seperate trying to find everything. It is hopeless, because it isn't real.

Is there a definite "barrier" that you cross when you "Awaken"?

The energy of seeking/knowing falls away, and everything is just what it is, it isn't a real happening in time. The ego was never real, so when it falls away nothing really changes. It is seen that this was never known and has no requirement to be known to be.

Do you go anywhere? Like waking up from the Matrix or something?

You were never here to begin with. 

Does it "Look" different? Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace?

All there is is this appearing in these forms. How are you going to find what is already? The looking for it is what is already, it is always out of reach for the ego, because the ego is the seperation itself. How can the ego get rid of itself? It wants enlightenment, it's own absence, but it wants to know that it is absent.

Is the intuitive knowledge that you are ONE and that the self is an illusion good enough?

Ask yourself that. The immediacy of what is being pointed to is devoid of any concepts. There is nobody over here that knows anything, there is just a rather poor attempt to put EVERYTHING into  words. The me reads these words as if they contain actual meaning, that there is something behind them, some secret in them that will rescue it from its suffering. These words are totally meaningless, they come out of nothing. They are just what they are, it is the very simplicity of just this. 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by traveler

[Display_Name]

On 5/29/2020 at 7:46 PM, JayG84 said:

I have done so much self-inquiry that I'm conscious of what my ego is doing almost all the time.

What is?

There is a definite shift in perception, yes. More than intuition.

Aside from psychedelics check out The Headless Way

Edited June 12, 2020 by Display_Name

[allislove]

I remember having some ideas about awakening, they were holding me back in a sense. That's not what you think it is. Forget about enlightenment, awakening - just do the work, see for yourself ?

[Lenny]

@JayG84

A lot of spiritual masters define enlightenment as being aware of reality/Truth. This reality that you're saying you are aware of, can you see/perceive it? Can you understand it? Are you that reality that you say you intuitively know? Or is reality "out there" and apart from you?

If you know that everything is one and you are this oneness, are your attitudes and actions in alignment with this type of knowing?

Do you feel light and loving toward all forms?

I guess trying to answer these questions will shine some light on it for your and also to see if you are enlightened. I imagine that enlightenment can "happen" without knowing that you are. I recall Eckhart Tolle saying that for years he was just silent, so silent that he didn't recognise that he was silent. Like he had no thought to arise a thought of "oh.. wow.. I have no thoughts". There was just nothing. Emptiness.

To address your questions directly:

1. But do you actually see the "substance" of consciousness when you awaken?

There are many different stages to awakening (in my experience). It's like things are slowly revealed to you. Doors open and doors close. Sometimes we get a glimpse of something which will uncover a discovery that will slightly shift our understanding and other times we get the full-blown experience, which causes us to change immediately. Some experiences are so powerful that the old way of thinking (or thinking at all) stops. And there is just a silence. Tears can come and so can laughter, for no apparent reason at all. Personally, I am a little stuck on the "substance of consciousness" thing. The only thing I have experienced it to be is "infinity". Infinity beyond the concept of infinity. 

A good way to tell if you are experiencing reality or have an "awakening" experience is that it will be completely different to what you have learned or imagined. But, when you try to explain what it is (as you're having the awakening experience or moment of "seeing"), you will be saying the same thing you said when you thought you knew what it was, but it will be completely different. This is why you cannot "learn" enlightenment or reality.

2. Is this close to what they call Enlightenment?

Enlightenment is an "event" or experience which can be quite profound. It's not a thought or something that you create through imagination. I believe that the reason why people sometimes call it a "non-event" is because it does not occur in time. You know that you as the truth that you are has always been and you just imagined that you were something else. You may even be able to confirm that you have never suffered in life. Not that you will no longer suffer, but that you have never suffered, and you were only imagining your suffering.

Also, you may feel as though you know everything. It is like all of life's mysteries just expose themselves to you and you don't need to read anything. Like you do not need to learn it. Many "positivity" quotes that you know take on a whole know meaning. You see how some "positivity" quotes are BS and some are very profound and could have only come from an enlightened person or from someone who at least was enlightened for a period of time. It's almost like everything clicks into place intellectually.

3. Is there a definite "barrier" that you cross when you "Awaken"?

Personally, I have experienced many barriers or moments of reaching the "door" or "gate" and being too scared to continue through. It is almost like you are literally fearful of your life and you feel that you will die.

One of my most crazy experiences was where I have an intense awakening experience and I was dropped into nothingness. At first I was like "mad, I'm here, I did it" (very identified and spiritually un-woke thing to say at that time because when I said "I" I literally meant me as an ego "did it"). It was a silence beyond silence and an emptiness beyond emptiness. Then a few seconds into it, I sensed something arise, almost like a thought or something maybe even an emotion or energy crept up behind me and then I realised "Could I be this emptiness?" and I thought "If I'm this emptiness then anything could happen". Like I could be dropped into an everlasting pit of sorrow and torture (for literally, ever, and never to escape). I don't recall if I did or not, but I could've let out a shriek of fear and it would have pierced through utter bliss (which was what I experienced first).

Later I assessed the whole experience and tried to see where I went wrong because I thought I had "broke through". I later realised that I had a lot of ego identification in that moment and a lot of fear and confusion and I identified with it. I felt like "me", "getting" enlightened - obtaining it like a lost treasure that was for me and for me only.

4. Do you go anywhere? Like waking up from the Matrix or something?

From my experiences you stay where you are. It seems as though things come to you rather than you go to things. 

5. Does it "Look" different? Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace?

Imagine seeing everything you look at the same way that you look at someone who you are deeply in love with, even if it's a sliced-up zucchini or something. You can literally see so much beauty that you can be brought to tears of joy. Every woman and every man look beautiful and you love them.

I've had a few experiences like this and it wasn't a thought. You do not "sustain" the beauty that you see by thinking about it in a loving way. it is already amazing and beautiful before you had an opinion.

6. Or is Enlightenment just the knowledge of Being that brings you peace?

Enlightenment is not knowledge, but knowledge can come from it. The peace should be there before the knowledge. 

7. Is the intuitive knowledge that you are ONE and that the self is an illusion good enough?

If you have to ask, "is this good enough?" then it's not good enough. This tells me that you are still looking for something other than what you already are.

If this helped let me know. I apologise if my responses are a bit all over the place. I feel that I am still exposing delusions and learning about the reality that I am. I feel confident enough to guide you as I have been where you have been. Consciousness and enlightenment is a funny thing because you could have an enlightenment experience today and you could potentially surpass levels of consciousness that I have experienced. You could then come into the full understanding of life and reality and I would be there in a heartbeat taking advantage of that by asking you some of my burning questions about it lol.

Peace dude  

Lenny

 

[JayG84]

@Lenny

Thanks a lot for the detailed response man. It really put things in perspective. ?

In some ways I think that my consciousness has shifted a lot in the past 5 years or so. My ego is definitely less of a problem in my life, I've learned to live with and accept who I am, and who others are, and try to practice no judgements and unconditional love. I'm generally more aware of my thoughts which help a lot with day to day living.

But I have learned that I do still hold on to a lot of concepts and beliefs that limit my potential to become my highest self. And I'm working day to day to recognize the sneaky ways it holds me back. This forum is a helpful tool for knowledge, and a sense of belonging. But ultimately, I'm realizing that I'm looking for an "Ah-Ha" moment here, where someone is going to say something that makes my "brain" click, and I'll wake up and "know" that I'm awakened. I need to stop thinking this way, or anyway about it. The self-inquiry that I'm doing won't lead me anywhere because I keep trying to conceptualize and then deconstruct those concepts. I need to go past the deconstruction phase, but I think I'm too afraid to see what's on the other side of that.

Like many have said, by asking all these questions, I'm standing on the river bank wanting to jump in and asking all of you how cold the water is, how deep it is, how many fish there are in there, where does this river go to...etc. I'm afraid that this will bring me somewhere I regret going. I still hold on to reality as a safety switch. If it gets too real, and can always question if Awakening is even "a thing" or "do I even need to go that far" or "this is good enough"....but all of that is just fear of the unknown and my ego kicking at screaming about it. At some point I just need to let go, at some point I hope I'll be ready. (Even though I know I'll never be ready) haha.

Thanks again

 

4 hours ago, dimitri said:

I remember having some ideas about awakening, they were holding me back in a sense. That's not what you think it is. Forget about enlightenment, awakening - just do the work, see for yourself ?

 

??

[Lenny]

@JayG84

Hahah yeah I know exactly what you mean. Doubt can serve as a useful tool for us to cover up all of this magnificence, for a while  

A part of what you wrote just now made me want to ask: When you say you are finding sneaky ways that your ego is holding you back from day to day.. what is it holding you back from? I know here you mean Truth with a capital "T" or enlightenment (and as you've stated here: your higher self). But, if you don't know what Truth is, if you've never experienced it, then how do you know your ego is holding you back from it? What if Truth is in front of your ego, not behind it?

Your higher self is in front of your ego. 

I'm really happy I helped put things into perspective in my early response. Let me know how you go.

Lenny

[JayG84]

36 minutes ago, Lenny said:

When you say you are finding sneaky ways that your ego is holding you back from day to day.. what is it holding you back from? I know here you mean Truth with a capital "T" or enlightenment (and as you've stated here: your higher self). But, if you don't know what Truth is, if you've never experienced it, then how do you know your ego is holding you back from it? What if Truth is in front of your ego, not behind it?

I do indeed mean Truth. I'm not sure how I know what Truth is...questioning...deconstruction of everything else that could possibly be and seeing that everything is a distinction from the Truth...wrestling with fear and anxiety my whole life and "knowing" that there is a "self" deeper down that's free of all that. Not sure. But I feel a pull to it, to wake up, to 'know' my higher self.

Interesting, what do you mean by in front of your ego? I've always thought of the ego as a mask that I put on my True Self. So in essence, my true self would be behind it. Put that's all conceptual thinking stuff. Maybe we just have different perspectives of it.

[WaveInTheOcean]

You don't know what enlightenment is until you get it.

The meaningless words "enlightenment", "awakening" , "liberation", etc. they mean something different to everyone.

To me, actual liberation/"real" awakening is when you no longer "create/receive/perceive" any feelings of: lack, fear, separation. 

Instead all you receive are feelings of: Oneness. You see yourself in everything. All life events (for you and all other beings), all experiences are Your Doing.   (OBS: This has always been the case and can never not be the case. What matters is if you 'get it' or not. :-))

No resistance. Inner Peace. Infinite Happiness. Boundless Love.
That's enligthenment, brothers and sisters.

Yes, it's worth it a million times. 
It feels like stepping out of a heavy space suit. Prior to awakening you used so much damn energy all the time on worrying, regretting, fearing the future, wondering about other people's opinion of you.  When you no longer do that (because you realize it's all you, nothing is not-you) you have enormous new reserves of energy which you can spend on: Loveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. <3 <3 <3

You will eventually realize that what common people call "other people" is One/God/You/Me. Zero difference. (From the Absolute Perspective this is. Of course, relatively speaking, We are still participating in Our Own Bitter-Sweet Dream, playing that there are 'self and other' ..., but it now seen to be that: play, not-real. <3 )

<3

Edited June 12, 2020 by WaveInTheOcean