Did Martin Ball reach enlightenment only through the use of psychedelics?

[actualizing25]

Did Martin Ball have any other spiritual practice or did he reach enlightenment only through 5meo?

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by actualizing25

[Nak Khid]

Assuming enlightenment is real do you have a source where Martin Ball says he's enlightened? 

[Sempiternity]

Also, if the person who's done more 5-MEO than most anyone in the world isn't enlightened, what hope does anyone have of enlightenment? 

[actualizing25]

@Nak Khid Leo did an interview with him, watch that video.

[Grateful Dead]

Yes, he was on the spiritual path before he got enlightend.

I think he wrote that he did Zazen 10 years already. Also he used a lot of ayahuasca, mushrooms and salvia.

I dont really know how enlightenment works.

But he also wrote in his book that he already was in the process to enlightenment and in the end he smoked a huge 5-meo hit and never really came down from it.

[Nak Khid]

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In the video Martin Ball does not say he is enlightened and if he did anybody could say they are enlightened 

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Quote

 Martin Ball:  one thing we discussed is that...I would like to distinguish well what I call an enlighting experience and what is the true liberation I would define as...freedom from the boundaries of the illusory nature of the ego, and clarity about the true nature of the self and this is different from a mere experience,
and it is very important to distinguish the two things ...

This we can call the experience of Enlightenment, and when people have it...
the most common reaction, when they return from experience, when they fall into their ego,
it's: "Oh my God, that was it!  That, whatever the Enlightenment is, it was that." So people are able to recognize it,
but what usually happens, is that the structure of the ego is reformed after experience,
and the person returns to the way he was before,
more or less, being such a radical experience destroys the whole paradigm to some people
for which earlier belief systems no longer have any meaning, nor intellectual concepts
so it can force people through this..
deep path of personal analysis, reassessing some of their beliefs
and how they see themselves in the world, so it can be very profound, to change your life,
but I would not call it true liberation, which is instead the result of a process

 

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Aaron p]

2 hours ago, Nak Khid said:

Assuming enlightenment is real do you have a source where Martin Ball says he's enlightened? 

Firstly...I love this comment^

"assuming enlightenment is real" 

????? Perfect. Authenticity!!

 

But yes, does anyone have any good sources of videos of online material with information on how Martin uses his 5meo? Or any of his teachings or strategies on how to use it in particular. ??

[Nak Khid]

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Edited May 29, 2020 by Nak Khid

[AlwaysBeNice]

Don't underestimate the love of god and don't underestimate the subtle conditioned ego to try to claim it all.

You can't be stably enlightened with use of drugs only, you have to really incorporate it into your life. China tried that once.

Easy to say but this is obviously true. I guess psychonauts don't like it when it's called drugs but it's still also drugs innit.

But i have no idea about martins life, but there's plenty of happy examples out there, like children for example

[Carl-Richard]

@AlwaysBeNice Children are not enlightened. That's a highly idealistic interpretation.

[AlwaysBeNice]

On 5/29/2020 at 3:43 PM, Carl-Richard said:

@AlwaysBeNicehhh

I think ur right but most children are still generally pretty happy.

As far as enlightenment and 5meo goes. 

This is a process if transforming your life from (years of) untruth or unlove to truth and love, and your personal culture around with it to some degree.

Even with a whole culture for it, masters and practice, it would still take years on average, which is not to say many lay devotees didn't do it, it would not be an easy task.

Therefor you can't assume some psychdelic, will just do it for you, no matter how helpful, but also possibly destabilizing.

Spirituality is a complete lifestyle, not a hypeful phase or habit or holiday.

That's also why it's good to have a stable enlightened master or group in your life, perhaps for in the holidays, so you don't have to do it alone, and in the west (and east) there are good teachers available, it's not really that rare.

Even christian groups, islam to some degree (sufism), jews, all actually use this principle, and not all are so lost even even all of these have oneness and infinity and we are god in it.

Edited May 30, 2020 by AlwaysBeNice