Why won't some individuals move up the spiral?

[Snader]

I've been studying spiral dynamics for a while now, and I find that model really interesting and believe it's one of the most significant creations for understanding human development, not only individually but also collectively.

I'm not yet a pro with the model. I was introduced to it in 2018 and have managed to understand the model better and better, especially on theoretical level. At first I liked to analyze people, especially smart people in the spotlight of mainstream personal development, such as Jordan Peterson, Joe Dispenza, Joe Rogan, etc., but just lately I've started to see the model in almost every person I come across, and it happens mostly unconsciously. 

The thing I can't quite get, and would love to understand better is: How is it that so many potential individuals won't grow and evolve? What are the factors for their personal status quo? And I'm talking about people that are smart and well educated intellectuals or academics. People that are systematically and socially super intelligent and are learning and studying from multiple sources about many different facets of life and (at least on the surface level) look like they are growing. Those people understand systems very well, but they tend to use that rare and beautiful understanding to manipulate systems in their ego's favor. 

I know it isn't so black in white. I could write an essay of affecting factors, but I feel like there is something simple and big that I'm not seeing, so I would like to hear other perspectives and points on this.

I'm talking mostly about Stage Orange people here. I think that in our society a hop from Orange to Green is the hardest one anyway, but I'm really interested about the reason, especially with kind of people described above. I think the problem stems from close mindedness but I would like to hear if anyone has something to say about this.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Snader
Clarification on the title

[Leo Gura]

Because growing beyond the center of gravity of your culture takes serious independent thinking, research, and motivation, while most people do not think for themselves, they are sheep, and they are just looking to survive however they can.

[Rilles]

Homeostasis, some people are so damn protected and comfortable in their worldview that only a serious disaster would wake them up, even then they could just dig their toes in even more. 

 

If you were a Purple tribal man would you sacrifice the tribe to go out and live on your own?

If you were a Red criminal would you give up your drug empire to become a moral Christian?

If you were a Blue Christian would you give up your religion to live a material life full of sin? 

and so on

Edited May 28, 2020 by Rilles

[apparentlynoself]

Indoctrination is one of the main reasons. When a person is born, he/she is fed with belief systems that the previous generations passed on. And that basically continues until the person finds out that they are being indoctrinated.

[Rilles]

Just now, remember said:

that’s blue 

oh how naive... Orange has programmed you so many things, I could make a laundry list of how Orange twists your mind in its favour. 

[Evil Raccoon]

Cuz moving from being a badboy to a fucking hippie is a real pain in the ass/a bitter pill to swallow.It just sucks.It's distasteful to accept the truth that hippies/stage green is above me.

Imo green is still gonna be resisted for a long ass time.

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Evil Raccoon said:

Cuz moving from being a badboy to a fucking hippie is a real pain in the ass/a bitter pill to swallow.It just sucks.It's distasteful to accept the truth that hippies/stage green is above me.

Imo green is still gonna be resisted for a long ass time.

Eat some assid. Trip out bruh.

[Hello from Russia]

Because the systems that are set around them suck. If the somehow radically change the environment around them - they will have a good chance

[apparentlynoself]

11 minutes ago, remember said:

that’s blue 

All stages do this. Not only blue 

[Jacobsrw]

2 hours ago, Snader said:

I've been studying spiral dynamics for a while now, and I find that model really interesting and believe it's one of the most significant creations for understanding human development, not only individually but also collectively.

I'm not yet a pro with the model. I was introduced to it in 2018 and have managed to understand the model better and better, especially on theoretical level. At first I liked to analyze people, especially smart people in the spotlight of mainstream personal development, such as Jordan Peterson, Joe Dispenza, Joe Rogan, etc., but just lately I've started to see the model in almost every person I come across, and it happens mostly unconsciously. 

The thing I can't quite get, and would love to understand better is: How is it that so many potential individuals won't grow and evolve? What are the factors for their personal status quo? And I'm talking about people that are smart and well educated intellectuals or academics. People that are systematically and socially super intelligent and are learning and studying from multiple sources about many different facets of life and (at least on the surface level) look like they are growing. Those people understand systems very well, but they tend to use that rare and beautiful understanding to manipulate systems in their ego's favor. 

I know it isn't so black in white. I could write an essay of affecting factors, but I feel like there is something simple and big that I'm not seeing, so I would like to hear other perspectives and points on this.

I'm talking mostly about Stage Orange people here. I think that in our society a hop from Orange to Green is the hardest one anyway, but I'm really interested about the reason, especially with kind of people described above. I think the problem stems from close mindedness but I would like to hear if anyone has something to say about this.

Good work man! 

I would suggest one reason being, that the levels in which big picture meta thinking occur are only around stage yellow. And since the world is dominated by blue and orange, very few develop beyond, it’s too threatening otherwise.

Unless one has the ability to exercise aspects of yellow they are likely remain at lower levels. Most levels below yellow are inherently attached to the means of serving an ideology. Ideology begins to crumble at yellow. This is what’s required to move up the spiral.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Consept]

All levels below yellow are entrenched in their ideology, your lifestyle, career, friends, identity are all based around these beliefs that you have. So to move away from them would mean sacrificing the identity that youve been building since you were conscious. Its the same reason people dont change their political leaning or favourite football team often if ever. 

For example using one of the people you mentioned, JP, think about the consequences if he was to move up to green and not hold so tightly to his beliefs, all of his fans hes amassed who buy his books and see his lectures will no longer support him. From a survival, reptile brain perspective, there is no benefit for him moving up and taking on new ideas or beliefs. 

I know some muslim people who are literally just muslims because everyone in their culture is, they dont really follow or believe in it, its just a cultural thing that they think would be impossible to live without. 

Basically survival instinct 

[Lyubov]

Sometimes a transition from being an unhealthy orange to a healthy orange can be quite a vast journey and lead to some deep realizations. I think separating growth by stages isn't always a good indicator of telling how well someone has developed.  

[Snader]

8 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

Good work man! 

I would suggest one reason being, the levels in which big picture meta thinking occur only around stage yellow. And since the world is dominated by blue and organ he very few develop beyond, it’s too threatening otherwise.

Unless one has the ability to exercise aspects of yellow they are likely remain at lower levels. Most levels below yellow are inherently attached to the means of serving an ideology. Ideology begins to crumble at yellow. This is what’s required to move up the spiral.

That's exactly why I think understanding the model really is important. By understanding it you can make your growth more conscious and that way avoiding already researched universal traps you can boost up your growth significantly. 

When it comes to growth, with an open mind I've come to understand that you can lead yourself to something that will safe you 10s of years, if not lifetimes. And Spiral Dynamics seems like one of those things.

The power of open mindedness sometimes inspires the hell out of me

[Snader]

5 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Sometimes a transition from being an unhealthy orange to a healthy orange can be quite a vast journey and lead to some deep realizations. I think separating growth by stages isn't always a good indicator of telling how well someone has developed.  

I agree. It's epecially when diving into details and needy greedy stuff, that models start feeling really rough.

[Jacobsrw]

10 minutes ago, Snader said:

That's exactly why I think understanding the model really is important. By understanding it you can make your growth more conscious and that way avoiding already researched universal traps you can boost up your growth significantly. 

When it comes to growth, with an open mind I've come to understand that you can lead yourself to something that will safe you 10s of years, if not lifetimes. And Spiral Dynamics seems like one of those things.

The power of open mindedness sometimes inspires the hell out of me

good work  You will grow a lot more through open mindedness.

Big tip: Be open to the very thing that threatens you.

This is exactly what prevents ones development. They stay comfortable in their positions since this protects the ego from any form of dissolution. Once you are open to threat, you will inevitably continue to evolve since the ego won’t be holding you down to lower stages.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Jacobsrw]

16 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Sometimes a transition from being an unhealthy orange to a healthy orange can be quite a vast journey and lead to some deep realizations. I think separating growth by stages isn't always a good indicator of telling how well someone has developed.  

Good distinction. That’s why Ken Wilber distinguished “lines of development” to discern the quality of ones integration at any a particular level. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Snader]

15 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

good work  You will grow a lot more through open mindedness.

Big tip: Be open to the very thing that threatens you.

This is exactly what prevents ones development. They stay comfortable in their positions since this protects the ego from any form of dissolution. Once you are open to threat, you will inevitably continue to evolve since the ego won’t be holding you down to lower stages.

Yeah, ego is a sneaky slippery thing. Thanks for the tip!

[Snader]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because growing beyond the center of gravity of your culture takes serious independent thinking, research, and motivation, while most people do not think for themselves, they are sheep, and they are just looking to survive however they can.

Yes. I was a bit blinded by my self-bias towards intelligent and rational people that I started assuming those people as superior in growth, forgetting  that society-approved growth doesn't really work above Stage Orange. So of course for those super rational intelligent people it is harder to evolve cause they have their identity created by the very same great ego-centered rationality. 

Thinking for themselves is the key of course. For those kind of people turning into a wolf would sky rocket them up to Stage Yellow, and not much of weed is needed in between

[from chaos into self]

In most of the stages there is defensiveness that views wisdoms from other stages to be bogus.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Rilles said:

If you were a Purple tribal man would you sacrifice the tribe to go out and live on your own?

If you were a Red criminal would you give up your drug empire to become a moral Christian?

If you were a Blue Christian would you give up your religion to live a material life full of sin? 

and so on

Nicely put