how to disprove solipsism ?

[Nak Khid]

Metaphysical Solipsism is a type of Idealism which maintains that the individual self of an individual is the whole of reality, and that the external world and other persons are representations of that self and have no independent existence.

Epistemological Solipsism is a type of Idealism according to which only the directly accessible mental contents of an individual can be known. The existence of an external world is regarded as an unresolvable question or an unnecessary hypothesis, rather than actually false.

Methodological Solipsism is the epistemological thesis that the individual self and its mental states are the sole possible or proper starting point for philosophical construction. Therefore, all other truths must be founded on indisputable facts about an individual's own consciousness, and someone's beliefs about, say, water have absolutely nothing to do with the substance water in the outside world, but are determined internally.

[Nahm]

@Nak Khid

This is the truth.

 

[Nak Khid]

Empiricism

Empiricism is the theory that the origin of all knowledge is sense experience. It emphasizes the role of experience and evidence, especially sensory perception, in the formation of ideas, and argues that the only knowledge humans can have is a posteriori (i.e. based on experience). Most empiricists also discount the notion of innate ideas or innatism (the idea that the mind is born with ideas or knowledge and is not a "blank slate" at birth).

The Scottish philosopher David Hume brought to the Empiricist viewpoint an extreme Skepticism. He argued that all of human knowledge can be divided into two categories: relations of ideas (e.g. propositions involving some contingent observation of the world, such as "the sun rises in the East") and matters of fact (e.g. mathematical and logical propositions), and that ideas are derived from our "impressions" or sensations. In the face of this, he argued that even the most basic beliefs about the natural world, or even in the existence of the self, cannot be conclusively established by reason, but we accept them anyway because of their basis in instinct and custom.

John Stuart Mill, in the mid-19th Century, took Hume and Berkeley's reasoning a step further in maintaining that inductive reasoning is necessary for all meaningful knowledge (including mathematics), and that matter is merely the "permanent possibility of sensation" as he put it. This is an extreme form of Empiricism known as Phenomenalism (the view that physical objects, properties and events are completely reducible to mental objects, properties and events).

[silene]

@Nak Khid helpful research, thanks for the explanations, I'd suspected there were different types of solipsism and this fleshes it out. Half the intellectual effort is defining things clearly. 

[Nahm]

On 5/27/2020 at 2:35 PM, Someone here said:

it seems like its undebunkable  which is not the same thing as its true.  Can anyone disprove solipsism logically? 

I have a friend who doesn’t necessarily believe in solipsism, but is a bit stuck there because he is struggling to disprove or get beyond his thinking. So two days ago I asked him, what evidence could potentially surface which you would find satisfying to disprove solipsism? A few minutes ago he texted me, crying happily, thanking me. Said he’d built a wall of arrogance to protect himself from his dad. Not sure about all that, nor am I implying that’s relative to you whatsoever, but thought I’d share because he found his way beyond his own thinking in trying to answer that question.

[Member]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

A few minutes ago he texted my, crying happily, thanking me. Said he’d built a wall of arrogance to protect himself from his dad.

:yawn:

[Nahm]

@Member lol. We both know I didn’t do anything. 

[Javfly33]

Other DO exist. It just that they are in Your Imagination LOL

Let me tell you Other POV´s are impossible because the mere concept of other is imaginary since for it to be real must happen HERE, which then it would stop to be "other".

The problem with solipsism is that it assumes there´s someone experiecing somethimg, which it isn´t.

nobody is playing a game with itself. God is Alone. But that is not the same as solipsism.

 

[Someone here]

@Nahm  old cute argument and it's false.  The same thing can happen in my dreams and yet it is still my dream and all the appearances Inside the dream has no reality outside my own mind.  Someone could annoy me in my dream and appears as if he is beyond my control and is independent from me.. Yet that whole scenario is still the creation of my own mind.  

Nothing exists except me and whatever I'm perceiving at the surface of this world.  When I'm asleep nothing exists.  When die (assuming death is like deep sleep) the whole universe will die with me. 

[Nahm]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

old cute argument and it's false

Sorry. Not getting what you’re saying. What’s false?

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Sorry. Not getting what you’re saying. What’s false?

Actually It's me who struggles to get almost anything you say. So maybe I did completely misunderstand your post.. If that was an argument against solipsism I just showed you how it is false. If not..  perhaps try to explain it by stooping down to my level and talking directly even tho that might be uncomfortable to you. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, dflores321 said:

The problem with solipsism is that people claim, " It is my experience only that exists.". Its not "yours". We have a tendency to play hot potato with our Ego on the spiritual path. Why not just focus on transcending our egos, and just drop our theories?

No. Look closely what exists and what doesn't. And what is being held within what.  "others" are held inside "you". Once you disappear .. Others disappear. 

8 hours ago, Nahm said:

 A few minutes ago he texted me, crying happily, thanking me. Said he’d built a wall of arrogance to protect himself from his dad. 

I don't get it. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

Just now, dflores321 said:

Only experience is true. 

If only you truly understand what this means. 

 

[Nahm]

@Someone here

How can solipsism be true, and yet I am on or at some higher level that you? If solipsism is true, you are the only, and or the only real, person. 

Were you able to understand that? I could try and state it a different way. I don’t mean that sarcastically. You have to appreciate that I don’t know what you’re not understanding because you aren’t communicating it.

[Someone here]

If you say there is something existing beyond direct experience.. That's just another experience in form of belief that is still happening inside direct experience. Even if there are other aware beings.. They don't exist as such from your pov.. Only as mere appearances. There is no difference between the Leo you see in your dreams and the Leo you see in the waking state .. Both are just mere appearances that you assume is more than that.   It's not rocket science.  Just dig it. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Nahm said:

How can solipsism be true, and yet I am on or at some higher level that you? If solipsism is true, you are the only, and or the only real, person. 

In your dreams no one is real other than you.. Yet they definitely "appear" real at the moment. And you deal with what is apparent not with what is actually the case because it's covered by deception.  And I am doing the same thing now. 

[Nahm]

 

37 minutes ago, Someone here said:

If that was an argument against solipsism I just showed you how it is false.

Can you see how that doesn’t really add up, if solipsism = Truth? 

[Nahm]

32 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't get it. 

In his case, rather than feeling, and doing the consciousness work of transcending the finite mind, he’d built a wall via solipsism. His relief was that he realized that he did so. Not implying that’s indicative of you or your beliefs, but that the question helped him to see that solipsism was his belief. 

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

In his case, rather than feeling, and Doing the consciousness work in transcending the finite mind, he’d built a wall via solipsism. His relief was that he realized that he did so. Not implying that’s indicative of you or your beliefs, but that the question helped him to see that solipsism was his belief. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

 

Can you see how that doesn’t really add up, if solipsism = Truth? 

Just read my replies above. I think I have put an end to this.   Otherwise  we could go on and on basically repeating the same arguments. 

[Nahm]

@Someone here Indeed lol. Godspeed. ♥️