Spirituality and veganism

[Nemo28]

Would more consciousness lead you to become vegan? 

[allislove]

No, you can even have 94 Rolls-Royces  

[Nemo28]

38 minutes ago, dimitri said:

No, you can even have 94 Rolls-Royces  

Well thats much different than supporting massive killing industry by consuming meat no? Have you seen the chicken factory and the killing machines, i i see no difference between the chicken and us (ofc from the absolute point of view everything is US, but in animals we can see ourselves much easier), its horrible to see such things happening and people dont even care, if they would see in those chickens themselves i think that would change their consumer habits.

[mandyjw]

Conscientiousness and consciousness are not the same. They often seem to go hand in hand though.

[LfcCharlie4]

Personally, I see it as an expression of Love more than anything else, I would say once you realize you are these animals, it becomes hard to torture them for food and your own pleasure, especially since it isn't needed for optimum nutrition. (Check out Medical Medium) 

The best teachers of our time were all vegetarian- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille and of course Ramana Maharshi. 

I feel people like to distance themselves from things like this, but eventually you will have to face it. 

I went Vegan 5 years ago for selfish reasons (get rid of Acne) but I will never eat an animal product (intentionally) again, as I don't want to contribute to that industry. 

At the end of the day, it is up to each person to decide for themselves

[mandyjw]

@Dutch guy I'm not sure what you read into my response. We see what we want to see. If you want to see pain and suffering, you'll see it. If you want to see Love here and now you'll see it. 

[mandyjw]

2 minutes ago, Dutch guy said:

@mandyjw English isn't my first language. Conscientiousness means sort of narrow minded? Or something else?

No, conscientious means you're very thoughtful and careful with your actions and decisions. I seriously admire all of you here who are discussing non-duality in an unfamiliar language, it can't be easy!   

[Evil Raccoon]

Yes.When I started to get into spirituality and shit (before falling back to the dark side) it became obvious that veganism was the way to go.Not just for ethical and health reasons but also for fundamental/"energical" reasons.

 

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Nemo28 said:

Well thats much different than supporting massive killing industry by consuming meat no? Have you seen the chicken factory and the killing machines, i i see no difference between the chicken and us (ofc from the absolute point of view everything is US, but in animals we can see ourselves much easier), its horrible to see such things happening and people dont even care, if they would see in those chickens themselves i think that would change their consumer habits.

Yes, of course. Also, there is a lot of poor kids in Africa, so what?

And yes, you are salad in the same way as animal. And there is no difference between salad, animal and you  

Just to give you extreme example. Let's assume you asked something more radical:

Can you be "high conscious" (whatever it means) and kill the person?

Yes, of course. Imagine you are surgeon, you did your best and patient died after you opened patient's stomach. So, in fact you killed the person.
But you did a "good" thing. You tried to help, you did it out of love, so nothing wrong with that  

It's not like I am supporting animal mockery, no. I am saying you can be highly conscious and eat meat.
So, as a lot of people mentioned it's personal choice. Do what feels good for you  
 

[allislove]

@Nemo28 another extreme example. Just by walking in the forest you are killing a lot of insects, so should you stay at home all your life?  

About support of industry if you buy meat.... then, you need to restrict yourself from everything including mobile phone  

So, it's really up to you  

[AtheisticNonduality]

7 minutes ago, dimitri said:

@Nemo28 another extreme example. Just by walking in the forest you are killing a lot of insects, so should you stay at home all your life?  

About support of industry if you buy meat.... then, you need to restrict yourself from everything including mobile phone  

So, it's really up to you  

Pigs are certainly more conscious than insects.

[allislove]

2 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Pigs are certainly more conscious than insects.

Some pigs are even more conscious than some people  

Edited May 26, 2020 by dimitri

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Nemo28 said:

Would more consciousness lead you to become vegan? 

Use of terms are fluid, be aware of how you and others are using terms. 

To me, you seem to be using the term “consciousness” as personal consciousness or awareness. This awareness includes various components. For example, there is intellectual awareness as well as feeling awareness. Imagine a robot observing a factory farm. It could compute activities, yet would be unable to fully understand the underlying feelings and experience since it is the unable to feel and experience. 

Expansion of awareness can lead a person to veganism, yet awareness of activities alone is generally insufficient to change perspective and behavior. This is due, in part, to prior conditioning and biological makeup. 

In addition to awareness of activities, people that are vegan often have a particular awareness and sensitivity to certain dynamics within meat eating and factory farming. Becoming more conscious may or may not reveal this, it depends on the person. As they become more conscious, some people embody forms of compassion and empathy that others lack. Consciousness expansion is expressed in many forms. 

[Alextvvv]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

At the end of the day, it is up to each person to decide for themselves

It is, but in accordance with the body's needs in my experience. Going abruptly vegan for ethical reasons is not always possible, as forcing beliefs onto the body can lead to health issues.

Did you change diet overnight or gradually ? With a follow-up and blood tests ?

 

[Nemo28]

3 hours ago, dimitri said:

o, as a lot of people mentioned it's personal choice. Do what feels good for you  

If it feel good raping little girls does it make it okay?

[Nemo28]

@Serotoninluv So you would say its not necessary that having deeper sense of awareness would lead one become more sensitive to animal suffering? But its interesting that you said that expanded awareness is not enough to change behaviour, since my compassion mostly extends to animals and less so to human beings, i guess this is due to previous life conditioning. 

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Nemo28 said:

@Serotoninluv So you would say its not necessary that having deeper sense of awareness would lead one become more sensitive to animal suffering? But its interesting that you said that expanded awareness is not enough to change behaviour, since my compassion mostly extends to animals and less so to human beings, i guess this is due to previous life conditioning. 

A slight modification: it is not sufficient  that having a deeper sense of awareness would lead one to become more sensitive to animal suffering. Awareness is infinite so there are plenty of areas to expand and deepen that have nothing to do with animal suffering. For example, one could expand/deepen their awareness of intuition and energetics in areas that have nothing to do with animal suffering. 

You may inherently be in-tune with animal suffering. It might come easy to you and seem so obvious that it’s hard to understand how someone could not be in-tune with animal suffering. We each have certain abilities we are naturally gifted with. I would consider empathy an ability. Some people have a deep, broad and clear empathic ability, other people are have crude empathy that is selective, fragmented and cloudy. Other people, lack empathic ability. One of my neighbors keeps his dog outside with a heavy chain.  The chain is a heavy weight to bear and it’s hot outside In the summer. To me, it’s so obvious that the dog is unhappy and uncomfortable. The poor thing is dehydrated on hot days and can barely walk. He also keeps his dog outside in the freezing days of winter. I’ve talked with the neighbor and he replies “It’s just a dog and he likes it”. To me, it’s so easy and obvious to see that the dog is very uncomfortable and it’s hard for me to imagine how my neighbor cannot see this. He isn’t in-tune with certain dynamics and lacks empathy in this area. 

[Nemo28]

@Serotoninluv I see. But do you think its okay that there are such cruel animal industry? I feel like this needs to change, we can not keep this insanity going. How do you make people more sensitive to such issues? I also dont want to judge anyone and be the anoying person. Or maybe i just focus on myself and leave the world take care of itself?

[James123]

14 minutes ago, Nemo28 said:

@Serotoninluv I see. But do you think its okay that there are such cruel animal industry? I feel like this needs to change, we can not keep this insanity going. How do you make people more sensitive to such issues? I also dont want to judge anyone and be the anoying person. Or maybe i just focus on myself and leave the world take care of itself?

This is the nature of the world. Humans are more clever species because of creating capabilities. Thats why we are more powerful than others. Thats why human species are virus, such as go, invade, destroy natural source (survival instinct of the virus) but total invasion will be end of virus. Thats why when we destroy the planet we will be done. Thats why its better have so called enlightenment experience not to be stuck as a human mind or survival instinct. 

Edited May 26, 2020 by James123

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Nemo28 said:

If it feel good raping little girls does it make it okay?

Does it feel good for you?
I am sure - not.
So, less mental masturbation, more actual work.
Inspect your direct experience rather than bringing delusional hypothesis