Salvia, W-T-F, Consciousness IS No Joke!

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Member said:

We want to learn how to manipulate reality and create things out of nothing, walk through walls. I'm not satisfied with I am everything/I am nothing explanation.

Desire, intention and perseverance can be useful on such a journey. I would definitely put them in my backpack. . . Yet too much of them can weigh us down along the journey. Part of this quest involves humility, letting go and surrender. And if the orientation is toward a personalized self-centered destination one will fall far short of their potential. 

[Member]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Desire, intention and perseverance can be useful on such a journey. I would definitely put them in my backpack. . . Yet too much of them can weigh us down along the journey. Part of this quest involves humility, letting go and surrender. And if the orientation is toward a personalized self-centered destination one will fall far short of their potential. 

Letting go of the ego is not the final destination, though I agree that you need to let go and surrender sometimes. But life is about discovery and there is no end to this journey as infinity has no limits. So why do we have to limit ourselves into thinking that we've hit rock bottom when existence is constantly changing? We have the power to go beyond these boundaries and morph into the future. To me, there's so much more to discover, so much to perceive and so much to change. If we keep our minds into a cage, then we won't be able to perceive more than a cage... ever.

[WHO IS]

Yes! Letting the human-life/limitation expirience to be one's own limit of expriciening reality and thus just surrender one's own existence to the void seems such a missed on opportunity to go beyond human and expirience even cooler things. 

Its infinite, remember guys 

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Member said:

But life is about discovery and there is no end to this journey as infinity has no limits. So why do we have to limit ourselves into thinking that we've hit rock bottom when existence is constantly changing? We have the power to go beyond these boundaries and morph into the future. To me, there's so much more to discover, so much to perceive and so much to change. If we keep our minds into a cage, then we won't be able to perceive more than a cage... ever.

I don’t disagree with you. My impression is that you are attracted to and desire what most would consider paranormal, transpersonal, transhuman or super natural abilities. 

Ime, it’s not so much about eliminating a self construct - it’s more about transcending the self construct. There is an energetic shift such that the source of energy can flow smoothly, purely and clearly. When the energetic source must pass through self filters, there can be obstruction, distortion and pollution. 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

If you think this is easy shit go ahead and explain it to me.

Oneness

All difference is imaginary. The difference between self/other is imaginary. It exists as long as you imagine that it does. And if you become conscious enough, you will understand that you are holding that difference in your imagination, and you will drop it, and you will realize that -- obviously -- there is no difference between anything, and you will merge into Infinite Love.

Stop thinking about this and actually do some spiritual practices.

Your problem is that you are stuck thinking and arguing about this stuff without doing any practices. So you will never get it until you realize that you're wasting time and procrastinating on doing the practices.

Awakening is such a radical thing that it cannot ever be explained to you. You must take responsibility for awakening yourself.

[Lyubov]

Sorry you had this trauma. It's painful stuff. Perhaps go easy on yourself, journal and do stuff you feel can help you integrate this in a positive way. 

[Member]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

I don’t disagree with you. My impression is that you are attracted to and desire what most would consider paranormal, transpersonal, transhuman or super natural abilities. 

Ime, it’s not so much about eliminating a self construct - it’s more about transcending the self construct. There is an energetic shift such that the source of energy can flow smoothly, purely and clearly. When the energetic source must pass through self filters, there can be obstruction, distortion and pollution. 

Not that I'm attracted to anything anomalous but I just wonder why we aren't able to cross these boundaries? Sure, you will say it's because of infinite consciousness and I'm talking from an egoistic POV. But it feels like we don't really understand the mechanisms behind reality, or how hallucinations work, for example. That's why I advised @WHO IS to allow the perceptions/senses to kick in rather than understanding everything from a rational/spiritual point of view. But even so, it might be dangerous if the trip controls you and you lose your shit easily. So yeah, whatever... what overall matters are the intentions. I guess.

[Bulgarianspirit]

Welp you can imagine this infinite empty mind projecting all these perspectives of itself...You can look at your body and see each and every cell is you.They are you but they don't know. Unless you distinguish yourself with a microscope. Imagine the infinite mind is the body of god. Imaginary but non the less for us reality. Within it couched universes,animals,dogs, anything that can be is. We as fragments forget we are the whole,but we are,just like the cells of the body. We are the way we are,because infinity isn't complete without having limited finite experiences couched within itself. But we are that mind experiencing itself. It's all that is. The power of imagination and hallucination... You can make anything real. What is real? If you can experience it its real for you. You can say this is nothing and we are nothing in nothing...But this void is so empty there is nothing there..So in comparison everything that god imagines can be thought of as real.Saying you hallucinate others etc is silly. They are you separating yourself from yourself. Its crazier than solipsism. I talk to you,you to me,but its just a vast mind talking to itself. Forgetting itself in forms again and again forever. What else is there to do than play? Btw super powers would ruin this reality lol ;D

Edited May 23, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit

[Forestluv]

52 minutes ago, Member said:

I just wonder why we aren't able to cross these boundaries? Sure, you will say it's because of infinite consciousness and I'm talking from an egoistic POV. But it feels like we don't really understand the mechanisms behind reality, or how hallucinations work, for example. 

I like how you term it “crossing boundaries”. It reminds me of all the great boundaries we’ve crossed in the past and will cross in the future. For example. . .  for over 100 years it was thought that running a mile in under 4 minutes was physically impossible. Physiologists even wrote articles about explaining why it’s impossible. Thousands upon thousands of men tried and failed, which re-enforced the belief it was impossible. Yet it was not a physical boundary, it was a mental boundary.

In the 1959s, a few runners started getting close, yet it was still considered impossible. How could a man run a 4:01 mile and everyone still think it’s impossible run just 1 second faster? That is the power of an ingrained boundary that had been passed for many generations.

Our DNA has been passing on the knowledge of how to create the perfect antibody to fight a virus that doesn't even exist. This was figured millions of years ago, long before viruses like the Coronavirus appeared. It wasn’t figured out through the intelligence of human brains. The knowledge arose through different forms of the intelligence manifesting within an infinite Intelligence.  Yet some knowledge passed on are illusory boundaries. Why would Infinite Intelligence create illusory boundaries? Perhaps it has fun crossing boundaries it created. If so, it would need to forget that it itself created the boundaries. If I create an obstacle course and know how to get by all the boundaries, it’s not very exciting trying to cross the boundaries. And it certainly wouldn’t feel rewarding when a boundary is crossed. 

Roger Bannister ran the first sub-4 mile has n 1954 and then dozens of other men ran sub-4 in the next few years. Today the elite runners run sub 3:50 and most Uni runners go sub-4. It's now ho-hum boring. It’s only exciting when a high school kid does it  - and even that is  starting the process of becoming common. 

What might our boundaries be today? Perhaps there are mental, intuitive and creative boundaries we will soon cross and amaze ourselves. I think three interesting areas would be: Development of A.I. and explorations into psychedelics that integrate science, mysticism and immaterial energetics. For example, an integration of psychedelics, quantum mechanics and Reiki energetics. We would cross boundaries we don’t even know exist. This is why visionaries are so valuable. They have intuitive intelligence expressed as creativity. The creativity of as both material art and technology as well as immaterial imagination, sensations, feelings, concepts and memories. 

One could say creativity is the arising of new existence (both immaterial and material). In this sense, everything happening now is creative. Everything arising now and being created now. This form of creativity is often not known. Most people are unaware of it. In part, because the mind often restricts it’s awareness into intellectual engagement. This brings us back to your original point that it’s important to allow perceptions / senses to kick in. This is a much more expansive baseline level of consciousness. And this too involves a boundary. The mind likes to divide it’s different forms of intelligence into categories such as feeling, thinking, knowing, empathy and intuition. Most minds aren’t even aware that most of it’s intelligence exists. . . Yet these areas are all inter-related. What’s exciting is that their combination together is greater than the sum of their parts. An emergent property arises. This can allow new visions and new creations to emerge. Things that we cannot currently imagine. 

Psychedelics are masters at breaking these boundaries down. Yet it is highly leveraged. From the perspective of development over time, a psychedelic can allow the mind to undergo a million years of development. Within this area, it would be like having the baseline views conscious level of a humanoid who lives 1 million years in the future. One ‘problem‘ is that the current mind is not empty, flexible or clear enough to allow the space for such an expansion. The mind has all sorts of conditioned filters through which it tries to make sense of reality by creating constructs. These filters are useful for functioning and surviving in today’s perceived reality, yet are woefully short-sighted and limited when considering one’s potential  The mind uses conditioned filters to transform infinite direct experience into finite experience. Within an immersed view, this appears as “my” experience. One’s baseline level of conscious influences the potential extent of the expansion, integration, insight retention, embodiment and utilization. At a transcendent view, there arises awareness of these filters. This allows higher intelligence to observe and evolve higher. Some filters may get discarded, some filters may become forgotten, others may get upgraded. Yet the pace of this development depends on many factors, collectively what I call one’s baselinelevel of conscious. A limitation of psychedelic expansion potential is the degree and forms of mind conditioning. 

[Osaid]

 

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

So "I" as the individual human ego is not the only  real person so to speak?

From the absolute perspective there is only you, because you are one singular consciousness through which finite minds are viewed. Leo always talks in the absolute perspective when it comes to this, so it is very easy to see it as plain solipsism.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Osaid

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

So "I" as the individual human ego is not the only  real person so to speak? Because Leo's statements seem like brutal solipsism (there are no others.. You are hallucinating me and everyone else)! 

Imagine for a moment that the entire universe is one single Infinite Mind. But this mind suffers from split personality disorder. This mind fractured itself into a trillion sub-minds which each imagine they are independent. But if ever this Infinite Mind awakens to itself, it will realize that all the "other" minds were always just fractures of itself. And then the Mind becomes ONE. The split personality disorder is healed.

Notice how you treat your body as a single whole unit. You don't think of your arm, your leg, your dick, and your head as all being different "others". You clearly see that they are all ONE unified whole. But someone who is fractured and thinks that the arm, leg, dick, and head are all separate things would say, "But that's solipsism to think that you are one unified body!" It's solipsism from his fractured perspective. But actually it's just holism from the higher, unified perspective.

Now extend that logic to the entire universe.

[rlc]

@Leo Gura lol “dick” he says 

ok logically this is exactly the insight I came up with from self inquiry. Does this mean I get non duality? Or is logic nothing but a tool? I expected more of ohhh my god!!! But didn’t really get it from realizing this. 
 

however I did have a mystical experience where I felt as one, and was the highest I ever been in life, a year prior. Realizing it’s just a dream and I can wake up whenever I want. But after I wasn’t sure I got it. I feel like I understood it way better with the self inquiry insight but I didn’t go bananas. 
 

makes me think I’m missing something from the experience. 

[rlc]

Sort of like your heart beating on it’s own = other minds operating on their own 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, rlc said:

@Leo Gura lol “dick” he says 

ok logically this is exactly the insight I came up with from self inquiry. Does this mean I get non duality?

Nope, not even close.

The map is not the territory. Logic is not awakening.

Quote

I expected more of ohhh my god!!! But didn’t really get it from realizing this. 

Because you didn't actually awaken. Your state of consciousness didn't change.

Quote

however I did have a mystical experience where I felt as one, and was the highest I ever been in life, a year prior. Realizing it’s just a dream and I can wake up whenever I want. But after I wasn’t sure I got it.

That was closer. There's just a lot to get, so one brief glimpse is not enough.

Imagine if I showed you a picture of the Earth for 3 seconds. Would you "get" the Earth? No! You'd need to look at it a lot longer and a lot closer.

Quote

makes me think I’m missing something from the experience. 

Yes, you're missing 99.9999999999% of it.

Stop torturing yourself and take a psychedelic. You'll instantly get it.

[rlc]

@Leo Gura That’s great news. I felt let down. Thank you for confirming. When I get a job this week I’ll buy 5meo right after I buy lp course. 
 

I just don’t get if it’s legal in New York to get shipped to my house, all it says it schedule 2 substance. I tried to understand what that means but I still don’t get it.  Do you have a guide on getting this and how to tell if it’s the real shit? Or links to where you researched before you got into it? 
 

i did great on a low dose of shrooms for 6 hours or so, I’m totally ready for 5-10mg of 5MeO. I know it’s drastically more powerful but I’m not afraid of tripping now, especially when I feel like you said it’s only 30 minutes but I’m not sure if that’s what you said 

[Preetom]

14 hours ago, Someone here said:

Here is where it starts hitting dead ends with me. I have tons of questions here that maybe won't be appropriate to discuss them on the forum.  I really wish if you shoot a video explaining the mechanics of how this works exactly and how it is linked with solipsism because I'm so confused by that. 

Jeez, you can stop playing this naive smartass bullshittery; sit with pen and paper; observe you current perception and make sense of reality.

You're fucking dreaming right now and yet so hung up on other people and giving them the burden of proof; other people who you've yourself dreamt up in the first place. Helooooo my imaginary, dream buddy' can you prove me if I am dreaming? Can you show me how I made this dream? Go ask MS Powerpoint how it built a modern 2020 computer lmao

Its like there is a candy and you are asking everyone and everything in the world how that candy tastes and whether if its's sweet. Asking the rocks if the candy is sweet. Asking the candy factory if its sweet. pRoVe tO mE tHaT tHiS cAnDy iS sWeEt. I am so smartass playing this half assed skeptic blah blah. 

Just fucking eat the candy. Chew on it, experience it, decipher the perception.

And at the end of the process, if you come to the conclusion that the candy is sour, then hell yeah it is. It is sour AF and you go on with your life knowing that and not asking for any validation from other external sources or trying to prove anything to others cause you chewed the shit outta that candy and know it inside out

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, rlc said:

@Leo Gura That’s great news. I felt let down. Thank you for confirming. When I get a job this week I’ll buy 5meo right after I buy lp course. 
 

I just don’t get if it’s legal in New York to get shipped to my house, all it says it schedule 2 substance. I tried to understand what that means but I still don’t get it.  Do you have a guide on getting this and how to tell if it’s the real shit? Or links to where you researched before you got into it? 

Given your lack of research and due diligence, you should not be doing psychedelics.

You are going to get yourself in trouble.

[Member]

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I like how you term it “crossing boundaries”. It reminds me of all the great boundaries we’ve crossed in the past and will cross in the future. [...] Yet it was not a physical boundary, it was a mental boundary. [...] The knowledge arose through different forms of the intelligence manifesting within an infinite Intelligence.  Yet some knowledge passed on are illusory boundaries. [...] One could say creativity is the arising of new existence (both immaterial and material). In this sense, everything happening now is creative. Everything arising now and being created now. This form of creativity is often not known. Most people are unaware of it. In part, because the mind often restricts it’s awareness into intellectual engagement. This brings us back to your original point that it’s important to allow perceptions / senses to kick in. [...] This can allow new visions and new creations to emerge. Things that we cannot currently imagine. [...] From the perspective of development over time, a psychedelic can allow the mind to undergo a million years of development. Within this area, it would be like having the baseline views conscious level of a humanoid who lives 1 million years in the future. One ‘problem‘ is that the current mind is not empty, flexible or clear enough to allow the space for such an expansion. [...] This allows higher intelligence to observe and evolve higher. Some filters may get discarded, some filters may become forgotten, others may get upgraded.

Exactly, that's what I was thinking when I said about mental boundaries. Maybe this will sound contradictory with my previous statements that 'there' is matter and consciousness is all there is, where consciousness = matter so that the infinite makes sense. But since we are apparently freely moving through space and time, why we can't move space and time with our minds so that we can time travel or change the way our body works? Placebo does wonders to our bodies without having to intellectually convince our cells to regenerate or heal our body, yet they cooperate according to our mind. So why can't that work with the outside reality too? Or maybe it works but we don't question reality deeply enough?

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Preetom said:

Jeez, you can stop playing this naive smartass bullshittery; sit with pen and paper; observe you current perception and make sense of reality.

You're fucking dreaming right now and yet so hung up on other people and giving them the burden of proof; other people who you've yourself dreamt up in the first place. Helooooo my imaginary, dream buddy' can you prove me if I am dreaming? Can you show me how I made this dream? Go ask MS Powerpoint how it built a modern 2020 computer lmao

Its like there is a candy and you are asking everyone and everything in the world how that candy tastes and whether if its's sweet. Asking the rocks if the candy is sweet. Asking the candy factory if its sweet. pRoVe tO mE tHaT tHiS cAnDy iS sWeEt. I am so smartass playing this half assed skeptic blah blah. 

Just fucking eat the candy. Chew on it, experience it, decipher the perception.

And at the end of the process, if you come to the conclusion that the candy is sour, then hell yeah it is. It is sour AF and you go on with your life knowing that and not asking for any validation from other external sources or trying to prove anything to others cause you chewed the shit outta that candy and know it inside out

You can type that for yourself and read it ten times a day. Don't give me lessons. I didn't ask for your opinion anyways.  And you are unfunny as hell btw.  I feel like I want to vomit tbh. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Someone here

[AlwaysBeNice]

Psychedelics are like a radical diy route. But only if the intent is to self discover, else it's just mindfuck usually, people taking their thoughts more seriously even.

A teacher is like a slow safe course in a way.

But I think it's safe to say, before this whole process is stable and high, it takes some time, but you can be happy before it in love already, that's really good news, after might be way more happy, idk.. i should find out ^^

But do want to say, really, for most people it takes time to adjust and go there, and that seems like a good and necessary thing (for me), if I look back at my progress and glimpses, I don't feel like it could have happened more or sooner so much, but this is ego pov also I guess

Edited May 24, 2020 by AlwaysBeNice