Time & Space - The Fabrication of Dream States/Dualities

[Preetom]

The points I'll be making here might seem outrageous and another new age vegan propaganda. But I welcome you to look at your waking state (dream A) and dream state (dream B) to come to your conclusions. I am deliberately calling both waking and dreaming as dream states, a footnote about it might be in the end.

a) The Waking State (aka Dream A)

1) Time is the dominant container element which creates the 'realness' of waking state reality. Your life, is nothing but the elaborate back story that is formulated in time. It comes up as the 1st nucleus after waking up from sleep and the entire universe and all your knowledge, rationality, personality etc rearrange themselves around this nucleus to make sense of it all. You can visit many places but it is time aka your identity with a back story of who you are defines everything else and what experience you are having in this waking state.

2) Space is the limited container of waking state. No matter how large the waking world seems or how fast you move; you are always stuck 'here' in your 'body' more or less. You can look at the infinite sky or ride a fast airplane; but still you only feel the realness of being here. It is spatially limited.

3) You have a 'time' memory. Look at any memory of you from past or any imagination of future. It never feels alien to you, because you OWN it all as your own life.

b) The Dream State (aka Dream B)

1) Space is the dominant container element which creates the dreamscape in which the entirety of dream occurs. In the dream state, that space of dreamscape dominates the entirety of that particular dream. The dream space is the nucleus which defines the rest of dream experience and how you will see them and what your relationship with them will be.

2) Time is the limited container of dream state. There is no 'backstory' in any dream. Dream experience is strictly limited to NOW. It is not the past/future time rationalization but strictly the dream space which dictates the dream experience and who you are in that dream. It is temporally limited. 

3) You have a 'space' memory. Have you noticed that no matter which dream space you wake up in, you always sort of own it and adjust with it aka start playing by it's rules? Its as if you have a vast dream library in your 'space' memory and each book/dream you open; you play along with it; it doesn't feel alien to you.

In conclusion, both waking and dreaming are dreams. Built with different mechanism and experienced differently; but nevertheless they fall in the same category. Like apple and orange, they look and taste different but both are fruits and experienced through same channel (taste).

So there are only 2 states, one of which doesn't exist.

Duality and Nonduality

Or Dreams and Woke(absence of dreams)

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Preetom

[Galyna]

Nice ? 

[Inliytened1]

15 minutes ago, Preetom said:

The points I'll be making here might seem outrageous and another new age vegan propaganda. But I welcome you to look at your waking state (dream A) and dream state (dream B) to come to your conclusions. I am deliberately calling both waking and dreaming as dream states, a footnote about it might be in the end.

a) The Waking State (aka Dream A)

1) Time is the dominant container element which creates the 'realness' of waking state reality. Your life, is nothing but the elaborate back story that is formulated in time. It comes up as the 1st nucleus after waking up from sleep and the entire universe and all your knowledge, rationality, personality etc rearrange themselves around this nucleus to make sense of it all. You can visit many places but it is time aka your identity with a back story of who you are defines everything else and what experience you are having in this waking state.

2) Space is the limited container of waking state. No matter how large the waking world seems or how fast you move; you are always stuck 'here' in your 'body' more or less. You can look at the infinite sky or ride a fast airplane; but still you only feel the realness of being here. It is spatially limited.

3) You have a 'time' memory. Look at any memory of you from past or any imagination of future. It never feels alien to you, because you OWN it all as your own life.

b) The Dream State (aka Dream B)

1) Space is the dominant container element which creates the dreamscape in which the entirety of dream occurs. In the dream state, that space of dreamscape dominates the entirety of that particular dream. The dream space is the nucleus which defines the rest of dream experience and how you will see them and what your relationship with them will be.

2) Time is the limited container of dream state. There is no 'backstory' in any dream. Dream experience is strictly limited to NOW. It is not the past/future time rationalization but strictly the dream space which dictates the dream experience and who you are in that dream. It is temporally limited. 

3) You have a 'space' memory. Have you noticed that no matter which dream space you wake up in, you always sort of own it and adjust with it aka start playing by it's rules? Its as if you have a vast dream library in your 'space' memory and each book/dream you open; you play along with it; it doesn't feel alien to you.

In conclusion, both waking and dreaming are dreams. Built with different mechanism and experienced differently; but nevertheless they fall in the same category. Like apple and orange, they look and taste different but both are fruits and experienced through same channel (taste).

So there is only 2 states, one of which doesn't exist.

Duality and Nonduality

Dreams and Woke(absence of dreams)

 

You are imagining space and time.

[Preetom]

26 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are imagining space and time.

Thank you for the notice imaginary padre 

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Thank you for the notice imaginary padre 

Haha.  Just saying yes there is just duality and non-duality.  In truth there is just non-duality but non-duality must ultimately burst into fragments because of Infinity.  Because that's what infinity is.   Thats 100 percent correct.  And duality is imaginary.  Time and space is byproduct of that.  As things are played out or actualized in a linear fashion.  So yeah i see what you mean.  It seems like you were putting time and space as what creates duality but it is part of duality. 

[Preetom]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

  It seems like you were putting time and space as what creates duality but it is part of duality. 

Time and space are both simultaneously the container mechanism which makes duality possible and also thus part of duality.

Like an operating system is the container which enables a functional computer and also a part of the computer.

This is why time and space can be looked at as container dimensions as opposed to phenomenal dimensions like color, shape, sound, taste etc.

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Time and space are both simultaneously the container mechanism which makes duality possible and also thus part of duality.

Like an operating system is the container which enables a functional computer and also a part of the computer.

This is why time and space can be looked at as container dimensions as opposed to phenomenal dimensions like color, shape, sound, taste etc.

Yeah i see what you mean.  It is the fabric of duality.

[Member]

5 hours ago, Preetom said:

Time is the limited container of dream state. There is no 'backstory' in any dream. Dream experience is strictly limited to NOW. It is not the past/future time rationalization but strictly the dream space which dictates the dream experience and who you are in that dream. It is temporally limited.

The backstory is you and your memories, only that the image of you gets altered by the subconscious mind. Time and space are basically the same thing = color, shape, sound, taste etc. And yeah, we're living in a dual world. Non-duality is more like death to me.

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Preetom said:

 

In conclusion, both waking and dreaming are dreams. Built with different mechanism and experienced differently; but nevertheless they fall in the same category. Like apple and orange, they look and taste different but both are fruits and experienced through same channel (taste).

So there are only 2 states, one of which doesn't exist.

Duality and Nonduality

Or Dreams and Woke(absence of dreams)

 

I'm not getting it. From the beginning you are calling both states a "dream state" to conclude at the end that they are both dream states! and your only argument for that is that they have similar (not identical) phenomenology?.  Two logical fallacies here : the first is circular reasoning (the assumption is identical to the conclusion) and" jumping ". That is to say your reasoning doesn't actually lead to your conclusion.  A dream world is similar to the waking world but that doesn't mean they are both dreams.  A high quality video game is similar to the real world but that doesn't mean they are both video games.! 

And I agree with the last part. If all duality collapses that would be identical to "nothingness".  The only thing that exists or could exist must be dualistic. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Someone here

[Preetom]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm not getting it. From the beginning you are calling both states a "dream state" to conclude at the end that they are both dream states! and your only argument for that is that they have similar (not identical) phenomenology?.  Two logical fallacies here : the first is circular reasoning (the assumption is identical to the conclusion) and" jumping ". That is to say your reasoning doesn't actually lead to your conclusion.  A dream world is similar to the waking world but that doesn't mean they are both dreams.  A high quality video game is similar to the real world but that doesn't mean they are both video games.! 

Or are they exactly the same video games? ? dont worry, for people lacking the capacity or willingness to exercise the higher lines of philosophical inquiries;  there are tons of progressive creation stories like big bang, flat earth, 5k years old genesis earth, universe being created from excess fat and ear jams of demons from Hindu mythologies etc to buy into and stay comfortable. Whatever floats your boat. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Preetom said:

Or are they exactly the same video games? ? dont worry, for people lacking the capacity or willingness to exercise the higher lines of philosophical inquiries;  there are tons of progressive creation stories like big bang, flat earth, 5k years old genesis earth, universe being created from excess fat and ear jams of demons from Hindu mythologies etc to buy into and stay comfortable. Whatever floats your boat. 

They might be the same and they might not be the same.!  Both are possible. That's what you're missing. It's the same as simulation theory. In this reality we are able to create simulations that appear 100% "real" and then follows the question "what makes you sure we are not  inside a simulation right now?".  Well nothing makes me sure!  Who said I'm sure??  But you also are not sure and pretending to be sure but in the opposite direction. 

As for the last part I think you are just trolling and no need to respond to that. 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Someone here

[Member]

On 5/21/2020 at 3:34 PM, Someone here said:

A dream world is similar to the waking world but that doesn't mean they are both dreams.  A high quality video game is similar to the real world but that doesn't mean they are both video games.!

What if this world is similar to a dream and by "lucid dreaming" we learn how to manipulate reality?

[Jacobsrw]

@Preetom Nice formulations here, except I would claim that the dream state is but the waking state.

All that the waking state is founded upon is a hulicinatory dream of mind. All that is “waking” is synonymous with “dreaming” (non-duality). There is no difference between them except that waking appears as a different level of dreaming due to its apparent solidity.

If anything, there exist only relative levels of dreaming, all of which rest in a nondual state which waking is a part of.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Preetom]

44 minutes ago, Member said:

What if this world is similar to a dream and by "lucid dreaming" we learn how to manipulate reality?

Sounds like a cool sci fi proposition; but alas, can't even survive even a minute of serious thought or inquiry.

Find out if the notions of of something controlling other things, manipulating reality etc are valid in the first place. Even in lucid dreams

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Member said:

What if this world is similar to a dream and by "lucid dreaming" we learn how to manipulate reality?

It's an interesting possibility.  Just that. But it's built on the assumption that this reality that you are living right now is literally a dream.  Do you know that? 

[Member]

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It's an interesting possibility.  Just that. But it's built on the assumption that this reality that you are living right now is literally a dream.  Do you know that? 

It's not a dream per se, but that's the best example I can think of. We have these perceptions that we're living in these bodies and we have memories and stuff, then we perceive things at this very moment which are ever changing... but why are we so complacent? What if we can manipulate this reality just that we don't know yet how to do it? Maybe this reality is a trap that makes us take things for granted and we cannot evolve if we don't learn how to become game masters ourselves. Think about it.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Member

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Member said:

It's not a dream per se, but that's the best example I can think of. We have these perceptions that we're living in these bodies and we have memories and stuff, then we perceive things at this very moment which are ever changing... but why are we so complacent? What if we can manipulate this reality just that we don't know yet how to do it? Maybe this reality is a trap that makes us take things for granted and we cannot evolve if we don't learn how to become game masters ourselves. Think about it.

Maybe! 

[Preetom]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:13 PM, Member said:

The backstory is you and your memories, only that the image of you gets altered by the subconscious mind. Time and space are basically the same thing = color, shape, sound, taste etc. And yeah, we're living in a dual world. Non-duality is more like death to me.

All dreams are instantaneous and lived according to its rules without any exception.

The memory/subconscious mind/ a person are all time based back stories formulated in the waking state as a deluded fool.