Nofap, porn and masturbation

[Dlavjr]

So I've been looking into nofap recently. I've never really been a porn addict, I've never really been a chronic masturbator, but there's so much contradictory information online depending on where you look. I know nofap has been discussed to no end, but I'm gonna go ahead and stir the pot again. 

I've always found masturbation to be a relatively good thing in moderation, like anything else. Porn, in even more moderation, I'd argue isn't a bad thing per say. However, what the nofap community seems to push in it's efforts to end masturbation is that the concept of beating off is, altogether, detrimental to your mental health. As somebody who jerks off maybe a couple times a week, it seems to me that a lot of the information given about the "dangers" of masturbation comes from the perspective of those who have an addiction. Maybe I'm not well enough educated on testosterone and sexual energy, maybe I'm more attached to masturbation than I thought. 

I've gone one whole week without masturbating, not really intentionally, more so that I haven't felt the urge cross my mind. At least not at opportune times. Those of you who vouch for nofap, what can you say that it'd do for me if I was to continue my streak? 

Also, are there benefits to abstaining from porn but continuing to masturbate as a means of connection with oneself, aka masturbating without any kind of pornography or mental images, and how might the potential results of both differ?

[Evil Raccoon]

32 minutes ago, Dlavjr said:

I've never really been a porn addict

U say that cuz u never tried to quit.You are addicted, trust me.

32 minutes ago, Dlavjr said:

Porn, in even more moderation, I'd argue isn't a bad thing per say.

Porn is just filth.Period.There's nothing good about it.It rots ur brain, desensitizes u from real intimacy, turns you into a perverted fucking weirdo who always needs more extreme outrageous disgusting shit to get aroused and fucks up your confidence big time.You don't need to watch it "in moderation", no amount of poison is good for you, just go get laid with a real chick you'll be fine.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Evil Raccoon

[Evil Raccoon]

48 minutes ago, Dlavjr said:

Those of you who vouch for nofap, what can you say that it'd do for me if I was to continue my streak? 

You'll get insane fucking urges and it will be hard to overcome them.I recommend u watch Leo's video on how to overcome addiction if u wanna prepare yourself for the storm.You might also feel depressed without the substance.If u make it tho, you'll notice more mental clarity, more confidence, better libido, better erections during sex, things will feel more "alive" (since the dopamine receptors that u use to fry when watching porn normalize) and u'll feel more manly just to name a few benefits.

48 minutes ago, Dlavjr said:

Also, are there benefits to abstaining from porn but continuing to masturbate as a means of connection with oneself, aka masturbating without any kind of pornography or mental images, and how might the potential results of both differ?

PORN is the worst dude.You can't keep absorbing this shit into your brain, it will fuck u up as I mentionned before.And masturbation is pointless imo.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Evil Raccoon

[Dlavjr]

6 minutes ago, Evil Raccoon said:

You'll get insane fucking urges and it will be hard to overcome them.I recommend u watch Leo's video on how to overcome addiction if u wanna prepare yourself for the storm.If u make it tho, you'll notice more mental clarity, more confidence, better libido, better erections during sex, things will feel more "alive" (since the dopamine receptors that u use to fry when watching porn normalize) and u'll feel more manly just to name a few benefits.

PORN is the worst dude.You can't keep absorbing this shit into your brain, it will fuck u up as I mentionned before.And masturbation is pointless imo.

So far, after a week of not masturbating, I haven't really struggled with any urges. Sure I still randomly crave it, but I always have more important shit to do, I just never have time to sit and jerk off. Masturbation is pointless, but the way I see it, so are most recreational activities, but it's still healthy to do occasionally. There's nothing wrong with stress relief. My question to you is, are you coming from the perspective of an ex-porn addict? 

[Evil Raccoon]

Just now, Dlavjr said:

My question to you is, are you coming from the perspective of an ex-porn addict? 

Definitely.

[Osaid]

There seems to be some sort of mental clarity and energy boost that comes with no fap, but I would agree with the notion that you would be fine just keeping it in moderation. Like anything that stimulates dopamine, it can turn into addiction, so be wary of that.

If you want to maximize your pleasure, there is benefit in going without fapping for a long time to reset your dopamine receptors.

 

[Dlavjr]

1 minute ago, Evil Raccoon said:

Definitely.

I felt that was the case. So, bearing in mind that I'm not trying to start a debate and more so trying to learn and gather a more holistic view, do you think it might be possible that you feel so strongly about the negative affects of pornography because you might be biased as a former addict? 

I feel like you can replace porn with anything. Junk food, alcohol, video games, etc. If you're addicted to any form of stimulation, of course it will ruin you, but I don't feel it's necessarily as much of the fault of the substance as it is the affects of addiction. 

I'm not saying that porn is good. I understand it's negatives, trust me, I don't find it to be something worth indulging in and I see how it's damaging when you slip too far in, however I personally never experienced any of the horrors of it in my own life. 

Similarly to video games, a cookie, or a beer, I think the occasional jerk off is harmless. Whether or not it's beneficial is debatable, sure, but I guess it's the difference between a former alcoholic having a beer and having a beer with no history of abuse with that particular substance. 

[Dlavjr]

4 minutes ago, Osaid said:

There seems to be some sort of mental clarity and energy boost that comes with no fap, but I would agree with the notion that you would be fine just keeping it in moderation. Like anything that stimulates dopamine, it can turn into addiction, so be wary of that.

If you want to maximize your pleasure, there is benefit in going without fapping for a long time to reset your dopamine receptors.

 

I got into researching nofap from researching dopamine detoxing, which is something I plan to integrate once a week. I'm not an overindulger at this point in my life. I certainly was as a teenager but nowadays I'm more sharply focused on my goals and aspirations and the hunt for a life purpose, and that precedes everything. 

I'll likely go for a 30 day nofap just to experiment with the benefits, maybe I'll come back with a follow up thread about what I experienced and if my opinions have changed. 

[Evil Raccoon]

6 minutes ago, Dlavjr said:

I felt that was the case. So, bearing in mind that I'm not trying to start a debate and more so trying to learn and gather a more holistic view, do you think it might be possible that you feel so strongly about the negative affects of pornography because you might be biased as a former addict? 

I feel like you can replace porn with anything. Junk food, alcohol, video games, etc. If you're addicted to any form of stimulation, of course it will ruin you, but I don't feel it's necessarily as much of the fault of the substance as it is the affects of addiction. 

I'm not saying that porn is good. I understand it's negatives, trust me, I don't find it to be something worth indulging in and I see how it's damaging when you slip too far in, however I personally never experienced any of the horrors of it in my own life. 

Similarly to video games, a cookie, or a beer, I think the occasional jerk off is harmless. Whether or not it's beneficial is debatable, sure, but I guess it's the difference between a former alcoholic having a beer and having a beer with no history of abuse with that particular substance. 

Hey, I'm not here to tell you how to live boi.If u love your precious porn and wanna keep jerk off to these pathetic mind numbing fantasies, go ahead! I just told you wassup.

[Austin Actualizing]

I've done multiple 90 day NoFap streaks and can say that there are a lot of benefits more energy, very confident, charismatic, more driven, don't need as much sleep, deeper voice etc. But, there are some downsides, the major one being that you are horny a lot of the time and you may end up sleeping with someone that you otherwise wouldn't as well as never getting a sexual release which causes some suffering. In my experience, NoFap seems to be great for attracting women/dating and getting financial success, maybe not so good for spiritual work, but then again monks abstain from masturbation. I would try a 30 day plus streak like you mentioned and see how it affects your life. @Dlavjr

[Dlavjr]

4 minutes ago, Austin Actualizing said:

I've done multiple 90 day NoFap streaks and can say that there are a lot of benefits more energy, very confident, charismatic, more driven, don't need as much sleep, deeper voice etc. But, there are some downsides, the major one being that you are horny a lot of the time and you may end up sleeping with someone that you otherwise wouldn't as well as never getting a sexual release which causes some suffering. In my experience, NoFap seems to be great for attracting women/dating and getting financial success, maybe not so good for spiritual work, but then again monks abstain from masturbation. I would try a 30 day plus streak like you mentioned and see how it affects your life. @Dlavjr

With the week alone that I haven't jerked off I've noticed a huge spike in my libido, just in that I find myself looking at women more often in public than I would normally. I'm also not a guy that's triggered by sexual imagery, after reading "The Way of the Superior Man" I learned a lot about appreciating women in all sorts of ways without lusting over them like an animal, so I guess it doesn't really make much of a difference. I'll keep the streak going as an experiment, keep an open mind. It's one less distraction anyways, I doubt I'll really suffer from not masturbating. 

There's certainly a level of focus and level- headedness that comes with not fixating on sex, I can see how the addiction and over-sexualization of women can change how you act towards them, but I think it depends on what it is your goals are. I'm curious to see how all this would play into a relationship but intend to stay single for a good while. 

[Danioover9000]

   I've done some 90+ days of abstaining from P.O.M and can say there're some big increases with energy, confidence, and focus. However, the main problem is that it is relative. I'm not a heavy addict, I sometimes do 1-2 times a day or 3-4 days or a week. For me, after a session, I felt drained and near death, so abstaining was beneficial. I can't then go and say to some other boy/man/elderly dude "Hey, stop fapping to porn! It's evil!" because I don't know their physiology, how they feel/think during or after a session, what state of health they're at like neurology/immune system/endocrine system, the psyche they have and so on. Some men are gifted with a high sex rate/sex drive that you would be amazed that they could still go on, some men still have sexual karma to burn through, some men make a living off of sex and porn, and some men are so deep in porn addiction and sex addiction that specialist care and professional help is needed more than what Nofap could offer. It's very relative to the person.

   The only mistake I see with Nofap community is they're going the moralization route with porn, 'us vs them' mentality, and advocating prohibition and fostering individuals to demonize against porn and using certain fetishes and kinks as easy props for leverage against porn, and a whole host of manipulation tactics that slip under the radar. For example, illegalizing and prohibiting alcohol created a boon for the illegal sales of alcohol.

   

[Dlavjr]

15 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   I've done some 90+ days of abstaining from P.O.M and can say there're some big increases with energy, confidence, and focus. However, the main problem is that it is relative. I'm not a heavy addict, I sometimes do 1-2 times a day or 3-4 days or a week. For me, after a session, I felt drained and near death, so abstaining was beneficial. I can't then go and say to some other boy/man/elderly dude "Hey, stop fapping to porn! It's evil!" because I don't know their physiology, how they feel/think during or after a session, what state of health they're at like neurology/immune system/endocrine system, the psyche they have and so on. Some men are gifted with a high sex rate/sex drive that you would be amazed that they could still go on, some men still have sexual karma to burn through, some men make a living off of sex and porn, and some men are so deep in porn addiction and sex addiction that specialist care and professional help is needed more than what Nofap could offer. It's very relative to the person.

   

I think that's really key to remember in this sort of discussion, everybody comes from somewhere different. There are obvious benefits to not masturbating or keeping it infrequent, but that doesn't necessarily demonize the act itself. I'd like to also add that I differentiate porn and masturbation. The two are often synonymous but they don't have to be. I've found there's a key difference in using or not using porn when masturbating, and that's worth noting. In my opinion, the most universally healthy route to go is to keep jerking off to a minimum, if you feel like you have to squeeze it into your schedule, or you prioritize it over other things or use it as some sort of reward, there's a problem. Also, I think the occasional 30-90 day break is probably beneficial, but at that point you might as well go all the way and do the full dopamine detox, as at the end of the day that's really what this whole thing is about. 

The real culprit is dopamine and how much you indulge and rely on it, if you pump your brain with as much dopamine-filled activities as your mind can possibly consume, then obviously there are going to be horrendous side affects, it doesn't just stop at porn. That being said, porn is one of the easiest possible ways you can access some of the highest levels of dopamine imaginable, so you have to be careful. 

24 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   The only mistake I see with Nofap community is they're going the moralization route with porn, 'us vs them' mentality, and advocating prohibition and fostering individuals to demonize against porn and using certain fetishes and kinks as easy props for leverage against porn, and a whole host of manipulation tactics that slip under the radar. For example, illegalizing and prohibiting alcohol created a boon for the illegal sales of alcohol.

   

I've definitely seen this and that's where a lot of my concerns arise when it comes to the legitimacy of the topic. A lot of it seems very aggressive and it also seems like the people doing nofap have a lot more problems that need to be solved alongside just porn, but a lot of them seem to feel that knocking out porn was all they needed. My personal gripe with it is that they don't take account people with differing backgrounds and differing minds, it's all based around addiction. I started this thread because I want to know if, as somebody that does not masturbate frequently and watches porn even less frequently, is nofap worth it? Are there still benefits, or is there really no difference? THAT'S what peaks my curiosity. 

It's very similar to how Alcoholics Anonymous is hugely beneficial to an alcoholic, but can somebody who just enjoys drinking for fun also benefit anything? In that particular case it's probably a no, but the nofap community strongly swears by a lot of benefits, and I want to see if the payout is universal or if it's only to addicts. 

[Roy]

@Dlavjr

Porn - There is absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as you aren't using it as a means to avoid real relationships or sexual interactions with the opposite sex.

Masturbation - Once again nothing wrong with it. Human bodies need release. The problem comes when you are indulging the experience too much past the point of necessity.

Consider that the suffering and discomfort that arises is more a result of the demonization of those things, rather than the things themselves.

The next time you go to masturbate or watch porn I want you to try really hard to notice something, before you even begin the act or the thought comes to your head that you want to do it; observe what kind of emotions come up. What emotions are they? Also contemplate why you are doing it. I mean really dig deep past the surface answer of wanting to orgasm, honestly probe why you are doing what you are doing.

Ask questions like;

- Am I able to hook up with a girl or get in a relationship in the near future, to replace masturbating?

- Am I doing this because of a strong bodily need? Or is it more of a choice from my head?

- Is this changing my view of women?

And so on. Look, don't fall into the hatred trap of the NoFap stuff. They are a reactionary ideology from being deep into porn addiction, it can certainly help and does a lot of good things for people, but it represents the swinging of the pendulum too far in the other direction. There is nothing evil about porn or masturbation. Sex is a part of life, in all it's forms, enjoy it. Just be wise, because wisdom is found in balance, between opposite ends of the spectrum. Not on one side or the other.

I'll issue you a simple challenge which I think will be attainable for you. For a whole month allow yourself to masturbate only once per week. Don't plan what day it's going to be, simply participate when it comes naturally to you. You shouldn't have to think about it. Also, don't use any porn to help stimulate you either. Use only your imagination.

Come back in a month and let me know how you feel in your body and in your mind.

Hope this helps, cheers.  

 

[Byun Sean]

@Dlavjr

From my experience if you frame masturbation or porn as 'bad' in your mind in any way, you will probably end up falling back into old habits again.

There is nothing wrong with masturbation, porn, or any of that. It's freaking awesome that we can pleasure ourselves by ourselves in that way. 

 

The only question is: What do you want? Would you rather have pleasure and accept a minor energy and focus decrease, or take the other result.

play around with it. Its alright if you fall back into old habits and stuff. I would also observe your urges in your mind and your body to see where they stem from.

also spiritually masturbation doesn't harm you at all. Health wise it seems fine too.

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by Byun Sean

[Elton]

@Dlavjr the only benefit is that you don't release your load watching porn, which makes your more horney to chase girls in hope of having sex and being able to release your load. 

Also it can help cure porn induced erectile dysfunction.

[Roy]

2 hours ago, Elton said:

the only benefit is that you don't release your load watching porn, which makes your more horney to chase girls in hope of having sex and being able to release your load. 

@Elton Don't necessarily feel that's a benefit. I think that can lead to a lot of neuroticism and desperation as someone tries too hard to get laid. Being that horny and repressing your urges like that can make you reckless towards the other sex. It can inhibit what would otherwise be your more authentic self. Of course there are horny girls to be found but apart of their nature is to hide their intentions and not to be explicit, and men can be blind to that and end up hurting a lot of women because of being so horny.

Obviously working on that stuff is better than not but I think it can be done from a less negative place.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Roy

[Oliver Saavedra]

And thus the pot was stirred

This is a nofap circle jerk (pun intended)

If its making you good you keep doing it, If not then might be good to leave it
Be aware of self-deception tho

[Lyubov]

I tried nofap and it just felt like suppressing desires in an unhealthy way. I don't even like to suppress my porn usage, however I think porn should be used responsibly. I buy the bulk of my pornography. I think tube sites and free porn for the most part has some very unethical and shadowy aspects to it. I like to control my information flow and not have some gross thumbnail with some else's fantasy titling it. 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Lyubov

[Carl-Richard]

I've been at both ends of the spectrum. Both extremes are born out of resistance; you can notice that resistance when you try to "milk it" (fap too often) or if you try to deny it (fap too little). Nofap might seem like it's healthy at first, but at the extremes, it's truly just classic repression, and it made me more emotionally numb than I've ever been in my life.