Reality is a Mind - Materialists need to contemplate

[High-valance]

33 minutes ago, Member said:

Thanks for sharing that video, it was interesting but I need time to reflect on the concepts - not that they are foreign to me but some of them didn't make sense. But I will watch it again in case I missed something. As for the matter outside mind, this is not my interpretation. It appears to be outside or separate but body and mind are basically the same to me. The chemical processes in the brain ARE thoughts or dreams or whatever, so I see no distinction between matter and subjective experience, though we obviously perceive matter in a finite space-time. My point is that we can't experience infinity as it cannot be perceived by the finite mind/being. So in order to exist, the infinity is split into these finite manifestations/forms of matter.

Quantum mechanics is a little bit weird but it doesn't imply that there is no matter, only that matter (let's call it Schrodinger's cat) exists in a superposition. If you're interested to hear a scientific explanation on the "many worlds" theory, please watch the video from my previous post as it could answer to the "tree" dilemma (obviously, it's just a theory that I subscribe to and nothing more).

Glad you liked it.

i'd like to ask you, how do you mean when you say that it appears to be outside or separate?

And I'll take a look, altough QF is for the most part kind of outside my domain of understanding as of yet. But it is on the list of things to learn on that Life long Learning thing.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, High-valance said:

Well sure, there are all kinds of dualities, but they are self-dual and collapse in in an absolute perspective. The percieved and the perciever are one.  I'm suggesting that what is being percieved is not a mind-external environment, but rather a mental environment, numerically identical to the perciever of it.

Again it depends on the perspective.  The perceiver and the perceived are one and not one from different perspectives. However the two perspectives are not equally true (yes believe it or not). From conventional first hand experience they are totally separate and you have to intellectuallize really deeply or to go into some meditative trance to dissolve this duality and still its gonna be temporary and you will be back to duality. That's just the nature of anything.  For anything to exist it must be dualistic. If there is no light there won't be darkness!. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

But I'm not starting from any paradigm here 

You are not aware of pre-conditioned filters you have. Saying “I’m not starting from any paradigm” has no depth on it’s own. More important is the underlying energetics of openness, willingness, curiosity and exploration. This is easy to see. . . Notice the mind say “I have no paradigm” and then keep reverting back to it’s pre-conceived paradigm to which it is attached/identified. . . . One could say “I’m not starting with a belief that any culture is better than another”. Yet this is belief is actually a sneaky defense if the mind keeps reverting back to “My culture is the best” and has no openness and willingness to let go of attachements/identification to it’s culture and genuinely get curious and explore other cultures. 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

 Keep in mind there is no "conclusive" evidence for any particular paradigm and I'm well aware of that. 

Notice how the mind is trying to set the narrative here by defining rules and what counts or doesn’t count as “evidence”.

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Reality can  shift it's rules every single day to fit different paradigms and we might not know that or manage to stop it . 

And again. . . 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

That's why the only thing that we can rely on is direct experience. That's the one thing that we can all agree and be sure of.  

Be aware of the mind’s desire to take ownership of “direct experience” to re-enforce it’s own agenda. The self wants narrative control of meaning - including control over the interpretation of “direct experience”. This is a distraction. To awaken and expand you will need to let go of narrative control and go beyond your edges. Yet you are not willing to do this. Notice your intense resistance and dismissal of actual expansion - such as psychedelics. . . . Psychedelics would shatter your self control of narrative. A mind wanting control of narrative will not put itself in a position in which is loses that control. Thus, it will label it as “hallucinations” or “irrational” or “can’t be proven”. These are all efforts of the mind to avoid losing control of narrative. And it’s not just psychedelics. You are doing it with other avenues of expansion as well.

You will not realize the contraction you are in until you are willing to let go and have a meta-view / experience. Not a view or direct experience on your terms within your narrative control. A direct experience of realization after surrendering all your terms, rules and narratives. 

Direct experiences of realization are not the intellect claiming direct experience to craft it’s own logical contextualizations.

If you are familiar with SD, this is within Orange level philosophizing. You will not be able to understand Yellow / Turquoise through an Orange lens.

 

 

[High-valance]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Again it depends on the perspective.  The perceiver and the perceived are one and not one from different perspectives. However the two perspectives are not equally true (yes believe it or not). From conventional first hand experience they are totally separate and you have to intellectuallize really deeply or to go into some meditative trance to dissolve this duality and still its gonna be temporary and you will be back to duality. That's just the nature of anything.  For anything to exist it must be dualistic. If there is no light there won't be darkness!. 

Well I think perceiver and perceived are seen as seperate as a result of intellectualisation. It's a conceptual abstraction. seen through in some deep meditative state, yes sure, but if aware of the false distiction it can become apparent as soon as one just is mindful of paying attention to it, and voila, the distinction is seen through.

"If there is no light there won't be darkness!."

Yes, indeed. Amen to that! The dialectical polar monism represented partially in the yin yang symbol for example.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by High-valance

[Osaid]

11 hours ago, The observer said:

And here's exactly the problem; According to your paradigm, if you aren't directly aware of the tree, the tree does not actually exist. So, how can you conclude that your thoughts that are derived from direct awareness are true? After all, they're just thoughts (memories), not the actual thing that you became directly aware of.

In other words, since the insight is not present right now in your direct awareness and is only present in your thoughts, how can you say that it is true?

You can’t have it both ways. You either have to admit that the tree exists regardless of your direct awareness and then you can say that your insights are true. Or, you can deny that the tree exists and deny your insights as well because all of it is just thoughts and thoughts are not to be trusted.

The tree literally shifts itself according to my awareness. If a see a fallen tree, it exists. If I go somewhere else, it's not in my awareness now, so it doesn't exist.

[Osaid]

@Member

11 hours ago, Member said:

Even though you can't see your future, it still exists... you are just not there yet.

But the future is not in your direct experience. And any awareness of particles is not in your direct experience. This is about what exists in your present awareness. When you say you perceive particles, that's not what you're perceiving. That is just what you guess you will perceive if you zoomed into everything and looked for particles.

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I see no reason why I would think that particles are imaginary

Because you're literally imagining them as a concept right now

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Everything that you interact with exists, everything is interconnected.

Agreed

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There's no such thing as "I didn't see it, it doesn't exist".

Everything shifts according to your awareness of it. If you don't see something, it doesn't exist as a sight anymore.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Osaid

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

You are not aware of pre-conditioned filters you have. Saying “I’m not starting from any paradigm” has no depth on it’s own. More important is the underlying energetics of openness, willingness, curiosity and exploration. This is easy to see. . . Notice the mind say “I have no paradigm” and then keep reverting back to it’s pre-conceived paradigm to which it is attached/identified. . . . One could say “I’m not starting with a belief that any culture is better than another”. Yet this is belief is actually a sneaky defense if the mind keeps reverting back to “My culture is the best” and has no openness and willingness to let go of attachements/identification to it’s culture and genuinely get curious and explore other cultures. 

Notice how the mind is trying to set the narrative here by defining rules and what counts or doesn’t count as “evidence”.

And again. . . 

Be aware of the mind’s desire to take ownership of “direct experience” to re-enforce it’s own agenda. The self wants narrative control of meaning - including control over the interpretation of “direct experience”. This is a distraction. To awaken and expand you will need to let go of narrative control and go beyond your edges. Yet you are not willing to do this. Notice your intense resistance and dismissal of actual expansion - such as psychedelics. . . . Psychedelics would shatter your self control of narrative. A mind wanting control of narrative will not put itself in a position in which is loses that control. Thus, it will label it as “hallucinations” or “irrational” or “can’t be proven”. These are all efforts of the mind to avoid losing control of narrative. And it’s not just psychedelics. You are doing it with other avenues of expansion as well.

You will not realize the contraction you are in until you are willing to let go and have a meta-view / experience. Not a view or direct experience on your terms within your narrative control. A direct experience of realization after surrendering all your terms, rules and narratives. You are deluding yourself if you believe you’ve already done this. 

Direct experiences of realization are not the intellect claiming direct experience to craft it’s own logical contextualizations.

If you are familiar with SD, this is within Orange level philosophizing. You will not be able to understand Yellow / Turquoise through an Orange lens.

 

 

I totally get what you are saying. I can summarize it " I don't know what I don't know". That's true. Unfortunately I don't have access to psychedelics at the moment. But I'm doing some alternative spiritual practices and trying to be open minded and consider all outlooks on the world equally (even the outlook of no outlook). 

[Joker_Theory]

10 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Time is an illusion as is the tree.  Duality is an illusion.  But illusion is reality (the reality of form)  pure formlessness is Truth.   Thats why when "you" "die" "you" will melt into pure formlessness or Absolute Infinity.

What do you mean exactly by formlessness. Is it like what i have seen on hallucinations simulations video of were reality turn into like an painting and then the whole painting/your perception starts to flow like water but not water but white light and turns into flowing white light?

I think it's a mind stream and mind stream = consciousness. So when you die "your" consciousness(the whole perception) changes form from being solid frozen state to a flowing state. Is that correct??

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

What do you mean exactly by formlessness. Is it like what i have seen on hallucinations simulations video of were reality turn into like an painting and then the whole painting/your perception starts to flow like water but not water but white light and turns into flowing white light?

Imagine that you have no body and you can still see. Which mean is you are nothing. That mean is formlessness. You are nothing, that you why you can be anything. Whatever you see including your body is consciousness. This all place you, you are just dreaming now that you are the body, in the brain, and have a life. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I totally get what you are saying. I can summarize it " I don't know what I don't know”.

Yes, that’s part of what I’m saying. Yet, ego can take ownership of what “knowing” is. . . There is also conditioning, mental filters and attachment/identification. 
As well, there are deeper aspects one ‘knows‘, yet has forgotten. There is a returning home and remembering. 

[Joker_Theory]

@James123 ok, so if you die you just become nothingness, blank space or blackness with consciousness or your body just disappears and your conscious of this dream/what i see now still without a body?

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

@James123 ok, so if you die you just become nothingness, blank space or blackness with consciousness or your body just disappears and your conscious of this dream/what i see now still without a body?

You will see the exactly same thing what you seeing now. You are not the body, or looking from the body. When body dies you will be right here, you are not going anywhere. Just think that you have no body but you are seeing here. That what will happen, this all place is you. Consciousness includes everything, blank space or blackness or the building.  Your body and your building are identical. 

[Joker_Theory]

I am seeing this laptop, tv...so that will still be there. I get i will go no were but will my scenery change. Also, what about the people around me now will i still see them too but from another angle so to speak??

[James123]

2 hours ago, Joker_Theory said:

I am seeing this laptop, tv...so that will still be there. I get i will go no were but will my scenery change. Also, what about the people around me now will i still see them too but from another angle so to speak??

The chair, tv, you this all dualities. Have you ever research about non duality? Life is only words that you put meaning on it. Such as , tv watching movies, your mom is your family. You are human, these are all words. Your mom has no differences than you. 

[Aquarius]

10 hours ago, Joker_Theory said:

@James123 ok, so if you die you just become nothingness, blank space or blackness with consciousness or your body just disappears and your conscious of this dream/what i see now still without a body?

it's not even blackness it's just non-nothing or God.

[Member]

12 hours ago, High-valance said:

i'd like to ask you, how do you mean when you say that it appears to be outside or separate?

Well they are part of me and I'm part of everything that exists. The inside/outside are just perspectives, nothing is actually separate. In order for you to exist, there has to be tiny forms of consciousness/matter existing in their trivial reality. I make no distinction between matter and consciousness, though the definitions might differ. For me consciousness is simply space time. When we die, we become stillness again.

11 hours ago, Osaid said:

@Member

But the future is not in your direct experience. And any awareness of particles is not in your direct experience. This is about what exists in your present awareness. When you say you perceive particles, that's not what you're perceiving. That is just what you guess you will perceive if you zoomed into everything and looked for particles.

The future is made of things moving/transforming ie physical world, otherwise there would be no time. I'm in the future, past and present awareness.

11 hours ago, Osaid said:

@Member Everything shifts according to your awareness of it. If you don't see something, it doesn't exist as a sight anymore.

From my perspective, you shift according to everything. And I don't agree... it exists there for an eternity. If you acknowledged its existence, then you can't say that it doesn't exist anymore just because it's not in your sight anymore.

[Member]

8 hours ago, James123 said:

The chair, tv, you this all dualities. Have you ever research about non duality? Life is only words that you put meaning on it. Such as , tv watching movies, your mom is your family. You are human, these are all words. Your mom has no differences than you.

Yeah dude, but what happens when a human dies? You said that you will see the dual world that you see right now (to see you need to have sight). Riddles aren't helpful. In fact, no one knows what the heck happens, all are just assumptions.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Member said:

what happens when a human dies?

Human is imaginary.

Death is imaginary.

Awaken and see. Those who deeply awaken have no more questions about death.

[Member]

27 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Human is imaginary.

Death is imaginary.

Awaken and see. Those who deeply awaken have no more questions about death.

I'm aware that I have a lot to learn but how does death reconcile with selflessness if it is imaginary? I want everyone to become enlightened, stop suffering and find forgiveness.

[allislove]

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I want everyone to become enlightened, stop suffering and find forgiveness.

Always start from yourself first

"If you are enlightened, everyone is"