Reality is a Mind - Materialists need to contemplate

[The observer]

@Leo Gura At least this time we are still on topic 

[fi1ghtclub]

I wanna backup @Osaid here

What stil exists apart from the thought of a tree or any concept of a tree is what exists in actuality which is what IS
And that IS is also every thought and concept

So in a way nothing ever happened and everything is happening at the same time.

[Javfly33]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

No it's not.  The key is understanding can a thing exist outside of Consciousness.  Its not about a sound.  We can also ask - does a tree fall with no one around?

Are you saying to yourself - oh it just happens and it's beyond our understanding?  Well that's just a concept.   Really think about what something would be without anyone conscious of it.   Would it be conscious of itself in order for it to be?

But to your earlier statement your right.  You are literally imagining the tree and that it can fall without you.  

Materialism debunked!!

I used to ask myself a similar question like that some time ago. The question would arise after or during going for a run out in nature, where there are many rocks around. I would be like "how is it possible that this rocks are still there, being themselves, existing, even when I am not around?"

I don´t know why but I would find really really weird that those rocks would be there, being "maintained" by this "universe" while I was in the city, having a shower, or even me in another country. LOL. Idk but I made an intimate connection with this rocks and I couldn´t sort out why it felt so weird that they could exist withouth me there.

Now I know I was into something . But unfortunately nothing has happened  Even though I know I am using the materialist paradigm to explain why this rocks can exist withouth me being there, well, I can´t see why not. Damn I´m trapped I have been brainwashed. I want my enlightment!!!!

Edited May 19, 2020 by Javfly33

[Member]

56 minutes ago, Osaid said:

The only reason you know this is because someone else saw particles and then told you that everything is made of particles, there are no particles in your direct experience right now for you to make that claim

I see no reason why I would think that particles are imaginary as I know from direct experience that matter does exist. Everything that you interact with exists, everything is interconnected. There's no such thing as "I didn't see it, it doesn't exist".

Even though you can't see your future, it still exists... you are just not there yet.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Member

[The observer]

38 minutes ago, Member said:

Physical world according to physics is made of particles.

Of course. That's the problem with all paradigms. The conclusion is always identical to the assumption. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a valid paradigm. Imagine if I create a paradigm where I assume that the world is made of little SpongeBobs, but instead of eventually finding SpongeBob, I end up finding Patrick laughing at me. My paradigm would then prove itself wrong and therefore it would be invalid and useless. I know it's a silly example, but just to give you an idea.

Physics originally assumes that the world is made of particles, without proof, then it goes on dissecting reality based on that assumption. And guess what? Reality turns out to be made of particles! What a surprise!

Anyway, you might say that reality actually is made of particles because it works according to certain physical rules, etc... Except that what you'd be missing is that it actually isn't made of particles, even though it seems to be working according to certain rules. To assure that reality is actually made out of particles, you'd need to provide proof for the existence of particles. So far, all the evidence we have is a bunch of equations. But we have never seen, tasted, heard, smelled, or touched a single atom.

So, in a sense, atoms do exist if we accept the equations as enough proof. But in another sense, atoms do not exist if we require physical proof (direct perception). Which sense of the two is correct? Neither. There does not necessarily need to be one particular correct view. Views are views. Thoughts are thoughts. Perception is perception. Every extra layer of thoughts we might add upon the actual thing is not the actual thing by nature.

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

I used to ask myself a similar question like that some time ago. The question would arise after or during going for a run out in nature, where there are many rocks around. I would be like "how is it possible that this rocks are still there, being themselves, existing, even when I am not around?"

I don´t know why but I would find really really weird that those rocks would be there, being "maintained" by this "universe" while I was in the city, having a shower, or even me in another country. LOL. Idk but I made an intimate connection with this rocks and I couldn´t sort out why it felt so weird that they could exist withouth me there.

Now I know I was into something . But unfortunately nothing has happened  Even though I know I am using the materialist paradigm to explain why this rocks can exist withouth me being there, well, I can´t see why not. Damn I´m trapped I have been brainwashed. I want my enlightment!!!!

Haha - maybe its 5-MeO time for you then

Infinite Love time

 

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, The observer said:

And here's exactly the problem; According to your paradigm, if you aren't directly aware of the tree, the tree does not actually exist. 

Just to be clear - Awakening isn't a paradigm.  It is Absolute Truth not a belief or worldview.  So if you haven't awakened then yes it is still a paradigm and none of this should be taken on faith.  Thats why the title if the post says materialists need to contemplate

 

[Leo Gura]

Your understanding of physics is 100 years out of date.

Physics itself has debunked the idea of particles.

There are no fucking particles. Not according to mystic Leo, but according to quantum field theory.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Your understanding of physics is 100 years out of date.

Physics itself has debunkes the idea of particles.

There are no fucking particles. Not according to mystic Leo, but according to modern physics.

Indeed maybe they missed your video on quantum mechanics.  A lot of work went into that one.

[Aquarius]

10 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

I've posted about this before but i think it's an important discussion.  Does the question "if a tree falls in the forest with no one around make a sound" bother you?

Well it should.  You have to actually imagine the tree falling and making a sound for it to have any meaning whatsoever.  It cant exist without you imagining it.   Prior to thought or imagination  it just is.  It is pure isness or pure Being.  Infinite Love.  It is prior to thought.  It is itself.  Infinity.  Pure potential. Leo's what is perception video really covers this in depth.

Really contemplate that.  

So I'll ask it again.

Does a tree fall in the forest with no one around?

Guys this is the key to enlightenment.   It is the key to becoming directly conscious of Truth.    It is the key to discovering isness or that something is itself.  That you are yourself.

Reality is indeed a giant Mind and you can indeed discover that it is not a dumb, physical, objective reality.

For some it comes easy.  For many they are engrained in their culture - a materialist culture.  One they cannot break free from.  But the Truth is staring you in the face! You just need to open your mind.  Open your Mind!!!!

In some states I am aware of all you say but I just took a huge dose of psychiatric medication. IT's sad how it slows down my spiritual progress. 

My mind is naturally psychedelic so I don't need to take psychedelics. But I need to to psychiatric meds to function as a member of society.

Beautifully written key insights that I loved to read, thanks @Inliytened1

[Javfly33]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Haha - maybe its 5-MeO time for you then

Infinite Love time

 

Hmm yeah, I´m preparing a trip for this summer finally...luckily I´m getting closer towards the end of the seeking.

[The observer]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Awakening isn't a paradigm.  It is Absolute Truth not a belief or worldview.

You think so? Voila! That's your paradigm.

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Thats why the title if the post says materialists need to contemplate

Yes, it is good for materialists, but I am not one. I am not even a non-materialist. I don't subscribe to any particular paradigm. But apparently, you do. That's why I've been having this discussion with you in the first place. I'm not arguing from below, and neither from the same level. I'm arguing rather from above.

[Member]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your understanding of physics is 100 years out of date.

Physics itself has debunked the idea of particles.

There are no fucking particles. Not according to mystic Leo, but according to quantum field theory.

I'm talking about the physical reality/present moment, not about the fundamental reality. We can't experience everything at once because we are finite. That's why classical physics still work for our macroscopic world. If there are no particle interactions then there is nothing and thoughts would make no sense. Maybe you will give this video a try when you have time, of course if you want to.

31 minutes ago, The observer said:

Anyway, you might say that reality actually is made of particles because it works according to certain physical rules, etc... Except that what you'd be missing is that it actually isn't made of particles, even though it seems to be working according to certain rules. To assure that reality is actually made out of particles, you'd need to provide proof for the existence of particles. So far, all the evidence we have is a bunch of equations. But we have never seen, tasted, heard, smelled, or touched a single atom.

So, in a sense, atoms do exist if we accept the equations as enough proof. But in another sense, atoms do not exist if we require physical proof (direct perception). Which sense of the two is correct? Neither. There does not necessarily need to be one particular correct view. Views are views. Thoughts are thoughts. Perception is perception. Every extra layer of thoughts we might add upon the actual thing is not the actual thing by nature.

We also work according to the physical laws of nature, what makes you think that you're not made of matter? I don't need proof that things are solid as long as I'm not able to walk through walls lol. So current scientific explanations make perfect sense. If you have any other better explanation, then I would like to hear it. Thoughts don't create reality, as far as I can tell.

[The observer]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There are no fucking particles. Not according to mystic Leo, but according to quantum field theory.

Quantum field theory is still a paradigm. It assumes fields of energy, and the proof is, like usual, a bunch of equations.

The map is not the territory. Not even 0.0000000000001% of it.  The territory is the territory. No thoughts required. All understanding is metaphorical.

[allislove]

@The observer the map is the territory.

Imagine you are staying on the middle of the large field with map, and indeed map (and you) is the territory, just add yourself and map on the map, to have more precise map. While adding yourself and map don't forget to add yourself and map to the image which you are adding, till infinity ?

Edited May 19, 2020 by dimitri

[Inliytened1]

16 minutes ago, The observer said:

You think so? Voila! That's your paradigm.

 

I have become directly conscious of it.  Or rather, Consciousness has become directly conscious of itself.  Enlightenment.  The collapse of all duality.

It's a miracle.

 

[The observer]

7 minutes ago, Member said:

what makes you think that you're not made of matter?

Because; what is matter? How can I think I am made of something which is not? What is matter, really? This is the core assumption that creates the whole problem.

12 minutes ago, Member said:

I don't need proof that things are solid as long as I'm not able to walk through walls lol. So current scientific explanations make perfect sense. If you have any other better explanation, then I would like to hear it.

What does science have to do with not being able to walk through walls? Science basically says we can't walk through walls because we can't walk through walls, and then it creates some other ways of saying the same thing... Scientists simply use different ways for expressing the same information. Literally like translating to multiple different languages, no more no less.

17 minutes ago, Member said:

Thoughts don't create reality, as far as I can tell.

When you think that reality is made of matter, that right there is a thought creating reality. In reality, there is no such thing as matter. You're imagining it. Unless you can point to it, it doesn't exist except in thought.

[The observer]

10 minutes ago, dimitri said:

@The observer the map is the territory.

Imagine you are staying on the middle of the large field with map, and indeed map (and you) is the territory, just add yourself and map on the map. ?

Of course. But that particular insight is kinda irrelevant to our discussion here.

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I have become directly conscious of it.  Or rather, Consciousness has become directly conscious of itself.  Enlightenment.  The collapse of all duality.

It's a miracle.

The collapse of all duality means that time is an illusion. Are you directly conscious of consciousness right now? Are you directly conscious of the tree falling right now? These two questions must have the same answer. Otherwise, you're using a double standard.

[allislove]

@The observer kinda ?

About the collapse of dualities.. just 10mg of 5-MeO in oil pipe easily helps to do it for me. ?

[Inliytened1]

37 minutes ago, Member said:

I'm talking about the physical reality/present moment, not about the fundamental reality. We can't experience everything at once because we are finite. That's why classical physics still work for our macroscopic world. If there are no particle interactions then there is nothing and thoughts would make no sense. Maybe you will give this video a try when you have time, of course if you want to.

We also work according to the physical laws of nature, what makes you think that you're not made of matter? I don't need proof that things are solid as long as I'm not able to walk through walls lol. So current scientific explanations make perfect sense. If you have any other better explanation, then I would like to hear it. Thoughts don't create reality, as far as I can tell.

Just study Quantum Mechanics.  Study modern physics and Einstein's relativity.   Can get some good ones from the Great Courses or the Teaching Company.   Then listen to Leo's videos on Absolute Infinity,  what is perception.  The idea that reality has any physical substance will be completely debunked for you.   But be careful what you wish for.  To discover directly that you are made of nothing and that this is a hallucination is disturbing.