Watching Leos latest videos and i'm wondering about one particular thing

[Sockrattes]

Hi everyone,

is awakening even an experience?

Many people have various degrees of mystical experiences. No doubt about it. Even i have them on a regular basis, without even trying to have them. While those experiences are always profound and mind shattering, i will always fall back to a condition, in which suffering is existent. No matter how deep those insights are, it is always certain, that i'm going to be this ordinary guy Sockrattes again, who has to deal with scrap pile, i call "life".

So i'm left with the question: If suffering is still going on, am i even awake?

Buddha and the rest teached, that we are suffering, because we desire. And we desire, because we are ignorant. Ignorant about our true nature.

Are mystical experiences no matter how deep the are, even capable to end our suffering once and for all?

We are running around chasing the rabbit with this approach, don't we?

We are trying to get freedom by searching for the one object, that will fulfil all our desires. But is that even the right approach? Is an 'object', that can be attained or experienced fulfil us eternally?

I don't think so.

That's why i think it is fundamental, that we have to stop chasing for objects, and start recognising the subject.

 

cheers

[Amit]

@Sockrattes understanding underlying causes of suffering becomes easier after awakening. Yes, suffering can cease to exist if you work on mitigating it's causes. Awakening faster the process of freedom. 

[Sockrattes]

9 minutes ago, Amit said:

 faster the process of freedom. 

If the path to awakening, liberation or enlightenment is a process, this can be undone, right?!

That's what i'm aiming for. Everything that can be attained, can be taken away again. How can THAT be eternal, peace, freedom and wisdom?

[Amit]

@Sockrattes there is a lot of work to be done after first awakening, this is about understanding, practicing how reality actually works, what is your own nature. This is not theorizing but knowing, direct experience. You will eventually achieve eternal peace, if you be persistent. 

[Sockrattes]

13 minutes ago, Amit said:

@Sockrattes there is a lot of work to be done after first awakening, this is about understanding, practicing how reality actually works, what is your own nature. This is not theorizing but knowing, direct experience. You will eventually achieve eternal peace, if you be persistent. 

If it's an experience, that i can have somewhere in the future, how can it be called "eternal" in the first place?

In the end, we are talking about consciousness, right?! About the self.

Everything that can be experienced is by the very definition of the term not the self.

The self will always be the experiencer, but not the experienced object (thoughts, emotions, objects in the world...). This means: Every "direct experience" is by default samsara. This is actually what Buddha said in his four noble truths, no?!

"Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving [taṇhā, "thirst"] which leads to re-becoming, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for becoming, craving for disbecoming.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.

Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is this noble eightfold path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration."

 

This is also what Jesus said:

Luke 17 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sockrattes

[Amit]

@Sockrattes @Amit you are getting lost in the thoughts, the maya. 

Sufferings of all kinds arises when you are not connected to the source, the Godself. By walking the eightfold path, you move from all the suffering towrds the absolute. Once you directly experience the Truth, it can't undone. Now, this connection only strengthens with intensity of your practice. You become one with the universe, you become the God, you become Christ Buddha, Mohammed, The prophet. 

[traveler]

You're just acting like you are sockrattes and you are doing a great job! Keep it up, or don't.

[Sockrattes]

7 minutes ago, Amit said:

@Sockrattes @Amit you are getting lost in the thoughts, the maya. 

Sufferings of all kinds arises when you are not connected to the source, the Godself. By walking the eightfold path, you move from all the suffering towrds the absolute. Once you directly experience the Truth, it can't undone.

It seems like, there is no guaranty for success. You can only try to recognise it, but ultimately you can fail eternally.

The question is actually simple: What has/had to happen, for God to recognise for him to be that he is God?!

We are walking the same path, don't we? That's the tragedy.

Somehow 'i am'. I don't know how and why, but it is certain, that i don't like it at all. On my way to get rid of all this never-ending pain, all i get is some of these spiritual-mystery-boxes, with basically nothing in it.

It seems like, God or whoever is in charge, has no idea how to teach it to me. 

Quote

Now, this connection only strengthens with intensity of your practice. You become one with the universe, you become the God, you become Christ Buddha, Mohammed, The prophet. 

Strengthening, practicing, becoming....

These are all words which imply time. How can i use time in one way or another, to recognise or attain the eternal? Sounds like another rabbit-hole. A subtle one, but a rabbit-hole nonetheless.

[Amit]

@Sockrattes Don't try to rush into it. There are stages of realization that will automatically come if you do the work.  Now, If you still think that it can be done in no time, simply watching Leo's videos, you are mistaken.

You can find spiritual practices which guarantee result like Kundalini, for example, there are many more. but you have to do some research, find whatever suits you, stick to it and go intense.

Another option can be to find a good realized master, which may cost you some money but it will save you massive time and effort. but here too you have to put work. 

Another suggestion I can give you is to read some highest-rated spirituality books from Leo's list.

[Sockrattes]

18 minutes ago, Amit said:

@Sockrattes Another option can be to find a good realized master, which may cost you some money but it will save you massive time and effort.

Luke 16:13 “No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.”

Never trust a "realized master" who's making money with it.

[Amit]

@Sockrattes then find someone who is not making money with it

[Sockrattes]

31 minutes ago, Amit said:

@Sockrattes then find someone who is not making money with it

Sure.

 

But what will he teach me, that i don't already know?

Kundalini for example is childs play. Is there any teaching or experience, which is a foolprove path to liberation?

Prasthanatrayi (Upanishads, Bhagavad-Gita and Brahmasutras), the teachings in all three turnings of the wheel of dharma, the Bible and the Dao De Jing are talking about the same thing, and non of it actually worked for me. And i'm somehow sick of it. 

 

EDIT: Hell even the epicureans, the stoics, christian and muslim mystics, maybe even Kant and so on are talking about the same stuff.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sockrattes

[Amit]

@Sockrattes So you understand the theory, you get that they are all pointing to the same stuff, all of the greats. But don't just stop here, as it's just the start. The guru initiates you into the practice, guides you, he is not there to teach you theory, he is there to show it to you, make it work for you. It's good that you on your own tried to do kundalini, but It seems you didn't achieve anything, so might have not done correctly.

Feel free to pm me, if you are facing difficulty to find a master guru.