Practical Depression Relief

[pgchollet]

 I want to start off by thanking you all for sharing your personal stories with depression. I think what each of your accounts exemplifies the distinctive nature of depression. Just as the circumstances, range of severity and experiences are different, so is depression and there are different types and spectrums. Depression isn’t one-size fits all and we don’t wake up one morning and feel “depressed” Depression is the end product of mixing together a lot of stuff. What I’ve discovered is that people want to rid of themselves of uncomfortable feelings and impulses. For example, they focus all their energy on tying NOT to be depressed, NOT to stress or NOT to overeat. And it can feel like in tying to hold water in your hand, the water is designed to flow, trying to stop it by clenching your fist tighter and tighter is futile. And then we get feelings of failure like, “what am I doing wrong, I’m breathing, meditating, keeping a journal and I’m still depressed”. And that’s no fun.  But I believe we all strive to reconnect with our natural states of peace, balance and oneness. Our feelings of depression and anxiety are friendly signals telling us things are out of whack, “you are off balance”. 

I practice Ashtanga yoga, and there are days when some trying to find my balance in an asana is an uphill struggle. But resisting the swaying and tripping makes it worse. I have to stop and internally scan my body to discover where the problem is and what adjustments I need to make to get back to my natural state of being in balance. So the tottering and teetering of my body is a good thing because it’s telling me I’m out of balance. And that’s how I view feelings of depression and anxiety , as signals telling us we’re not in our natural balanced state of peach and oneness. Instead of trying to stop and feel better, I found it helps to go deeper, do an internal scan and discover where it is and what you need to adjust to get back in balance, whether it’s chemical, situational, or genetic tendency.

[harsh29]

On 2/6/2016 at 10:39 AM, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, the problem with depression is that it's a giant self-fulfilling prophecy that robs you of the VERY mental resources you need to pull yourself out of it.

So in practice, I would say if you got really bad depression, you need to find someone to help you who is willing to meet you at your level.

One thing they taught us in life coach training is the following principle:

If a person is at victim-level thinking and you give him a kick in the ass, he will only become a bigger victim. << they need a very gentle hand-holding approach.

If a person is at fighter-level thinking and you give him a kick in the ass, he will mobilize and self-correct.

So total victims need lots of support and encouragement.

I think you could teach mindfulness-type practices to depressed people, but you'd have to do it in a very supportive environment. You can't just tell them something like: "You are causing all your own problems and it's all in your head." While that's technically true, they are too weak to do anything with it.

Btw, I've tried motivating victims through tough-talk and brutal truth, and my results have been mixed. A lot of times they just get upset and freaked out because I failed to meet them at their level. Case-in-point my early video on depression called; Why Am I Depressed? Which gets a lot of downvotes even though it technically answers the question head-on.

Another important thing I discovered about depression is that it is a super ambiguous word.

1. Some people say they are depressed when their favorite video game didn't come out on time.
2. Some people are depressed because their entire family was killed in a car crash.
3. Some people are depressed because they eat a terrible diet for YEARS and never exercise
4. Some people are depressed because they have been lying to their spouse about cheating on them.
5. Some people are depressed because they only made $5 million dollars this year instead of $10 million.
6. Some people are depressed because they read too much existentialist philosophy in college.
7. Some people are depressed because they are addicted to alcohol.

HUGE difference between all of the above! Yet we tend to call all these cases "depression" and generally try to solve them with the same remedy.

On 2/5/2016 at 4:03 PM, Meriem said:

 

 

[harsh29]

 

 

[Zephyr]

I've been applying this although I've been flaky. Very good advice. I don't really know what it exactly means to be depressed anymore since different people has different ranges of experience with this state. But any sort of depression I would call them suffering.

just got to remember to take a deep breathe and ask the question "who is suffering?" This technique never fail to produce result. It always gets me out of my suffering state. 

[Kelley White]

I am kind of new at posting in forums.  I see many copying and pasting specific comments but I think the thread is awesome so I am just going to address the thread as a whole after reading all the subsequent comments. 

I want to open with a thank you to those who commented back while I was triggered.  I would also like to encourage anyone who may read this later?  I used DBT skills and the "wishing I didn't exist" feeling passed.   I had a really positive and fun weekend.  That is why you don't make a temporary decision based upon a momentary emotion.  So if you want to die, remember it will pass and you can choose to live to laugh another day.   Here is an example of just that in authentic real time. 

What I appreciated about your comment Leo, was the gentle approach part.  Ironically I was triggered by someone who had actually taken a baseball bat to my noggin with an observation which I was already aware of.  What I've been learning in therapy is that I, Kelley, revert to certain situations by "getting small".  "Alice" shrinks.  Kelley engages in some self defeating self talk, or out of a negative space, self harms by a self defeating outburst of emotional negativity which creates more chaos and becomes more evidence I use to berate myself.  (Much of this can be self conscious, some of it can be passive aggressive due to what works in the abuse situation no longer works in the healthier dynamic. )  You have to hear you do something passive aggressive so you stop, its self defeating and biting you in the butt.  Its easier to hear with love and care, support, versus, being thumped over the head with it.

I personally need the gentle approach.  I need, this happened to you, this is why you do "this," now you understand it you can forgive yourself and take small steps towards changing the behavior by practicing mindfulness and breaking the old patterns.    Otherwise I just get stuck in the I am an awful human being I don't deserve mentality.  The victim mentality versus the thriver mentality. I may have the "be small", learned helplessness response, but if I do inquiry, if I redirect focus, if I remember to breathe, all those things that in the depressed moment you just seem incapable of?  I can become "tall" again, retain clarity, own my crap so to speak, and revisit with Tall Alice, mature Kelley who is proactive versus reactive.   

I personally detach, I actually go through much of my life observing myself and others as if I am outside of myself.   I think this may be related to hyper vigilance due to life long trauma.   I find asking what is real?  It has literally shifted my internal paradigm.   I have observed by direct experience, my pain is sometimes related to statements which are false beliefs.   Its new, so I am still in the habituating the practice phase.   I need reality checks sometimes.

So let me revisit just one example in my original post about being triggered and wishing I did not exist.    I could do inquiry and ask what is real related to my husband? My husband has a disease which makes us living with one another unhealthy  for either of us.  My husband may not want to be found or give me a divorce, but I can meet with an advocate and get help with how to work around that. 

So if I begin to ask what is real?  I focus on solutions, steps, what is and how I can cope with what is and either accept it, or change what I can change.  I can accept responsibility for wanting to believe so badly, I dismissed and explained away what should have been red flags.    I can see my culpability in allowing certain things to continue and do so forgiving myself by understanding the underlying why.   I can see the positive in that I grew, I learned, I now can see things I could not see a couple of years ago without this experience.  I essentially empower myself. So perhaps in the moment the self inquiry doesn't help, but I find it too is a process and when I can get to the self inquiry head space it will work and I can find the turn arounds to make progress.

Two years ago I could not have been this transparent or have recovered so quickly from such a blunt trigger.  This individual literally reminded me of my husband.   I cried, I got small, I kicked into my default self-loathing and shame.   I then wrote the post I shared earlier being honest about being triggered.  Sarah's response let me know, "you are not alone."Neill's response let me know, "you are not alone."   So I gave myself permission to feel what I was feeling and sit with it.  I laid down and rested.  Then I researched Post Traumatic growth and learned that after trauma a gentle approach was best with someone such as myself just coming to grips with the trauma I had experienced.   I then was able to send that person a letter and say, "Hey, I know this might have worked for you with some folks, but I don't suggest this with everyone; here's why."  I could also acknowledge that while I did not like his style I did have to acknowledge some of his observations were valid.   In the past something like this might have spiraled me for weeks.  I resolved  it in a couple of hours.   That is measurable progress.   I don't feel I defaulted to passive aggressive behavior, instead I took ownership and also held my own ground and gave back what I felt was not my issue but his issue.   His business versus my business.

If I can do that?  Anyone can learn to do that with the right hand holding and tools.   Its a disease.  An unkind, isolating, mean disease with no crutches or wheel chair.  You can appear high functioning one minute and be wholly incapable the next.   It's not by my experience a linear process.

Many depressed people cannot afford services, and that is where folks such as yourself come in Leo.  I tend to be very intellectual (no? LOL) I am also desperate to get better, so I am motivated.  I want a life.  I have listened to and benefited from your videos, as well as those of other life coaches.

   The Affordable Care Act does offer folks mental health, The VA offers mental health, and there are tons of great resources out there.  I have been so blessed to surround myself online with very creative people, mental health professionals and others who have provided me with  support and tools. 

Its been a journey and I have no idea where that journey will end.  I can say I gain more mastery each day as I am aware and embrace rather than fight with what is.   That said, I find I have to balance that with a certain amount of positive intention.  I'm not wholly convinced of the whole law of attraction concept yet...but I do observe that our thinking creates our reality.   Unfortunately some of us just have to unlearn and relearn new skills and habituate them and that takes time. 

What an awesome thread.  Really good comments and observations here that I appreciate.  Thank you so much everyone and thank you for the forum.  I've learned a ton already and I love the daily self  actualization journal feature.  It gives you accountability with your goal setting.

 

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by Kelley White
Editing typos.

[Kelley White]

After the Life has no purpose, no goals video?  I personally find the nothing is real,  there is no purpose...very depressing.  That very thing is such a sticking point for me due to being intelligent and not framing reality within the "normal spectrum."  Sometimes I can be in the mood for OSHO,in the wrong space?  He will really just make me angry and depressed.  I  endured all that (whatever) for nothing?  No reason?  I have no purpose?  Nothing is real?  That means I must not be real, that means I must not exist or have purpose which makes me nothing.  The pain is so great nothing is real, there is no point, I might as well just...insert impulsive behavior, self defeating conduct, suicidal ideology here/  See how a depressed person can run with that @harsh29?   I'd be interested in your thoughts or direct experience with this.

[joep229]

I've been having social anxiety problems for many years. I was always shy and somewhat uncomfortable with people. My low self-esteem and fear of people (I have always mentally put everyone above me, and still do) directed me on an easy path towards a civil service job as a Court employee. Nevertheless, I did that job for many years and eventually retired from it. Although successful, I was held back from certain advancements because of my evident poor self-image.  Imagine being a very insecure person in a fairly prestigious career. I feel like I faked my way through my working life. My escape was evening weed, on and off, which temporarily relieved these issues and allowed me to have fun and an anxiety free social life when I smoked it. Now that I am retired, I have taken these social problems with me, along with certain visual and cognitive issues that my wife now has, that we both must deal with too.  She has always been the one person in my life that can seem to put my issues into perspective and has always been the one to help me to get through my bad stretches. Although she is still very helpful with these things, I feel that she is the one I should be helping and supporting and I constantly worry about her (although I can see that she is generally fine) that I am not able to do what may be necessary in the future. This gives me extreme guilt.  These days my levels of stress and worry are extreme at times.  I meditate daily now try to change my bad thought patterns and to try to stay in the ‘here and now’ rather than worrying about what the future may bring and I see that it does help. Over the past year, I have had anxiety attacks and even a period of bad panic attacks. I have taken SSRIs, which take the edge off but mostly only give me side effects that I can’t handle. I saw a psychologist for a while who I sort of connected with, but she left the area. Now I see a Psychiatrist who sees me once every month or two but only to monitor my medications. I am in a fairly good stage right now, but I’m trying to get the nerve to get some CBT which I also have fear of since I am very reluctant to share ‘the real me’ with others, and I am also not very positive about the success of this type of treatment. It's a struggle!

[Ayla]

@joep229

Your message is very touching and I thank you for sharing it with us. 

What if I told you that we never worry about the others, but only about one aspect of ourselves that is reflected back to us by others? Would this take a bit of the pressure off? 

Reading your analysis of your situation, I get the feeling that you might feel a bit lost, after a lifetime of what you perceive as a multitude of errors. 

We never make errors. We always do what feels better in that present moment. Back then, you did not have access to your current way of seeing things. So going back to it has no value.

Start where you are. Accept that you are here. Both of you. Take baby steps towards wanted outcome. One at a time, just like a toddler.

Lastly, my own journey taught me something that I still hold as invaluable: first, do what you can do by yourself before taking it to the next level ( taking pills, concentrating on others, doing external stuff, etc) 

 

[joep229]

Thanks Ayla

"What if I told you that we never worry about the others, but only about one aspect of ourselves that is reflected back to us by others?"

Are you saying that my worry is about something in myself that I see in her issues, not about her? Can you explain a little further?

[Ayla]

1 minute ago, joep229 said:

Thanks Ayla

"What if I told you that we never worry about the others, but only about one aspect of ourselves that is reflected back to us by others?"

Are you saying that my worry is about something in myself that I see in her issues, not about her? Can you explain a little further?

Yes. We always project a possible outcome to other people's problems that would likely affect (is affecting) us at some level. Sit with this. 

Another facet of this, is there's some deep inner imprinting her condition is mirroring to you. Look into how this makes you feel and what it reminds you of (usually childhood trauma). At one point in your life, you felt (possibly regarding a very different situation) the exact same way that you feel about this one. 

Sit quietly and think about your wife's situation. Let yourself FEEL it in your body, with NO mental labels. To help you, I will say that these need to arise just as physical sensations (cold, hot, itchy, cramp, stiffness, etc) as opposed to ...nervous, anxious, agitated etc. 

Then, let yourself wonder without putting any emphasis on the mind, when did you feel the exact same feelings in the past? AGAIN, I am talking about physical manifestations in your body, not concepts we usually attribute to those. 

I'm here

 

 

[joep229]

 

2 hours ago, Ayla said:

Yes. We always project a possible outcome to other people's problems that would likely affect (is affecting) us at some level. Sit with this. 

Another facet of this, is there's some deep inner imprinting her condition is mirroring to you. Look into how this makes you feel and what it reminds you of (usually childhood trauma). At one point in your life, you felt (possibly regarding a very different situation) the exact same way that you feel about this one. 

Sit quietly and think about your wife's situation. Let yourself FEEL it in your body, with NO mental labels. To help you, I will say that these need to arise just as physical sensations (cold, hot, itchy, cramp, stiffness, etc) as opposed to ...nervous, anxious, agitated etc. 

Then, let yourself wonder without putting any emphasis on the mind, when did you feel the exact same feelings in the past? AGAIN, I am talking about physical manifestations in your body, not concepts we usually attribute to those. 

I'm here

 

 

I understand that my worry is not only about her, but also about the devastating effect it would have on me and the rest of my life if my fears came to pass. I know this is selfish of me and just a part of life for people as they get older and I also know what Leo says about worry. I am trying to work on that. It just bugs me that as I know I am not alone with these issues. What is it about me that makes me fear and obsess about things to the extent that I do?

As to your suggestion about getting to the childhood trauma, nothing is coming to me as far as a physical sensation. Just a similar situation regarding something that actually happened to a relative in the recent past that helped to provoke these fears in me. But I will keep thinking about it. Thanks

[Ayla]

25 minutes ago, joep229 said:

 

I understand that my worry is not only about her, but also about the devastating effect it would have on me and the rest of my life if my fears came to pass. I know this is selfish of me and just a part of life for people as they get older and I also know what Leo says about worry. I am trying to work on that. It just bugs me that as I know I am not alone with these issues. What is it about me that makes me fear and obsess about things to the extent that I do?

As to your suggestion about getting to the childhood trauma, nothing is coming to me as far as a physical sensation. Just a similar situation regarding something that actually happened to a relative in the recent past that helped to provoke these fears in me. But I will keep thinking about it. Thanks

2 points:

1. You are not selfish at all. Worrying exclusively about ourselves is human nature. Only very few people have opened themselves enough to really embrace this truth without feeling threathened by it. It is not egoic. Source is expressing the worry you have for your own self through a mirror (circumstance or person). So you can take this pressure off.
2. Now why is it that you worry so much about yourself and your future? Because you have not realized that death is an illusion and that you are not your body, neither your mind. 

Continue to sit with your feelings as they are like small children. You have 't given any attention to them in a long time...they're just too scared to come to you so soon. Be present with what you feel and leave the stories... Just drop them aside.