Understanding fortune and misfortune.

[Member]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but the child doesn't know it.

Yes and no. The child is not awake. But God doesn't judge unawakened people.

Maybe there's no reason to know or to be awake, we just are and that's it. God doesn't need a reason to exist.

The difference is only in our minds and that leads to judgement.

[JosephKnecht]

To know misfortune, you must miss the fortune. 

To know fortune, you must know how not to miss the fortune. 

The hardest thing to know is that which you don't know. 

Those who know, know fortune. 

Those who don't know, know only misfortune.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Member said:

Maybe there's no reason to know or to be awake, we just are and that's it. God doesn't need a reason to exist.

The difference is only in our minds and that leads to judgement.

Maybe you are just making excuses for staying a devil.

[Member]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Maybe you are just making excuses for staying a devil.

Nope, I just try to accept that things can happen without any specific reason. And it helps me withhold my judgement. If bad things happen, I just think that they were supposed to happen. If God is everything, then it must be the devil as well.

[mandyjw]

@Dylan Page Have you ever read those stories about people who had a horrible loss or tragedy happen and it allowed them to appreciate life more fully? Then observed other people who have had fantastic success and been miserable? There's no good luck and bad luck. There's no cause and effect. It's only from your perspective that you can see how our stories and attachments create suffering. There's inherent pain and pleasure in life, and there's the mind seeking and running from based on it's ideas of what pain and pleasure are.  Examine what those are and you might find that there are some false assumptions holding that up. Our observations of what happens to other people will always be based on our ideas, not our own experience. So you have to always come back to your own experience. The self and its web of illusions can't be seen when it's looking around trying to figure out others. There are no others without a you being assumed anyway. It's your own fear of pain and seeking pleasure that drives your concern for them. That concern is not real love but only masquerades as such. A deeper understanding is available beyond what we call fear.  

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Member said:

If God is everything, then it must be the devil as well.

Of course God is the devil. But that doesn't mean you must continue being a devil.

[Member]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course God is the devil. But that does mean you must continue being a devil.

 

 

[The observer]

Oneness ☯️

Positive from the yin pov is negative from the yang pov and vice-versa. It's infinitely more complicated than this simple duality, but that's how it is.

Life is a zero-sum game.

[Osaid]

13 hours ago, JosephKnecht said:

To know misfortune, you must miss the fortune. 

Thats a great quote

[Nahm]

@Keyhole

Infinite consciousness can not know a finite world. Likewise, nondual awareness is, when all dualities in perspective are let go. Unconditional truth can not be known by applying conditions.  

[Nahm]

@Keyhole

If this is experientially understood, understanding & experience are known as self recognition, and therefore nothing is known. If this is in part conceptually understood, but not realized, a devious god of the gaps would act as a filler, or scapegoat, between relative conditions and unconditional. It’s of course one’s own right and one’s own business to do so. The offset however, could be an unnecessary expansion of void ‘between’ infinite unconditional and infinite unconditional appearing as finite mind. This could account for the feeling appearing to be influenced by dualities, which are unable to be understood relatively or attributed to nonduality.  

Scrutiny of direct experience reveals to oneself it is not equipped to absolutely understand the suffering of another, only of oneself. This is intrinsic of compassion, and not dualistic to it. Why people suffer can not be rationalized, only the absolute truth will do. There is suffering which could be said to be causal to the veiling of the finite mind, though it is not in any case subject object, or from one entity to a second entity in it’s true nature. There could also be said to be suffering in not realizing this, but that is not the suffering of an albeit innocent approach such as the god of the gap. 

This could be a great example of apparent misfortune which can be revealed to be the greatest of fortunes,  synchronistically hinging on understanding. 

[Amit]

4 hours ago, Keyhole said:

There legitimately feels to be an energetic spiritual war going on between the forces of good and of evil.

These forces are in your own psyche, consciousness. You are fighting with yourself for good as your deepest subconscious has been conditioned to moralize and defend from evil. Evil cease to exist, once you awake to the truth that you were that evil the whole time. 

[Rilles]

"There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied. 

The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man. 

The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer. 

The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer."

 

I always think of this story when someone talks of luck/unluck

[Guru Fat Bastard]

First, one has to see that their idea of how things should or shouldn't be is a personal bias,and has no relevance in "seeing things as they are". Fortune and misfortune appear on every level of existence,not just to human beings. As far as theories go,karma appears to be the more acceptable one. Depending on ones actions in this and previous lives, ones allotted karmic debt decides the kind of life that will have to be lived in order to rectify that debt. If past virtuous actions outweigh the selfish non virtuous actions,one will have a better quality of  life than say, one who's actions were  oppositional, antithetical or counter to the universal laws of harmony, agreement,inclusiveness and correspondence.

Instead of pointing the finger at "god",one may want to consider that existence is the way it is because it cannot be any other way. If it could be ,it would be. The way It is,is the way it is, and any resistance or non acceptance of that, is a definite set up for unneeded suffering. In the absolute sense there is no one suffering misfortune,but until this is experientially realized,the suffering and misfortune are real to those experiencing it. In consideration of that is where our ability to respond with compassion is needed. Being angry at "god" doesn't resolve anything nor is it helpful in any way.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Guru Fat Bastard

[Amit]

@Keyhole heart is the engine for the body, thus source of energy, it feels while psyche stores all our imagination experiences and help our intellect to guide our body. In realizing the consciousness we get synergy of intuition and psyche, from our limited bodies, we enter vastness that awaits us. 

[mandyjw]

@Keyhole If you had a relationship with someone such as a deep friendship or romantic one, would you be happy if they told you that they needed  logical reasons to love you? Because you're pretty, because you're smart, etc. All those "reasons" could be secondary appreciations, but what we really want is just to have an inexplicable connection beyond the understanding of the mind. We crave that depth and all knowing/unsolvable mystery from love. 

Right?

So here you are wanting to understand God logically with the mind, when God is... everything. All encompassing. Inexplicably. 

Love. 

[Nahm]

@Keyhole

No worries. ?? If you have any specific questions about it, let me know.