Understanding fortune and misfortune.

[Dylan Page]

One of my greatest interests is in understanding why good and bad things happen to people. There is obviously a spectrum of good and bad in people’s lives, and sometimes people find themselves at the absolute pinnacle of either side. Some win the lottery from one ticket, and others get brain cancer at 16. Some have mostly pleasant lives with a few rough patches, and others have mostly unpleasant lives, with a few good patches. What is the significance of these differences in individuals? It seems to be that fairness is not in nature’s best interest when it comes to the treatment of conscious individuals that reside within it. Is there a proposed reason for this? Perhaps some more intelligent function that I have overlooked? I would like to one day figure out the cause of these differences, and if they are meaningful or not. Please leave a reply if you have any sort of idea that could further this conversation. 

[egoeimai]

I can't explain why that happens. My interpretation is that there are past lives and karma. That's how I like to see it in order to justify it. Because mind needs the dynamic of right or wrong. 

[Osaid]

There is a Chinese story of a farmer who used an old horse to till his fields. One day, the horse escaped into the hills and when the farmer's neighbors sympathized with the old man over his bad luck, the farmer replied, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?" A week later, the horse returned with a herd of horses from the hills and this time the neighbors congratulated the farmer on his good luck. His reply was, "Good luck? Bad luck? Who knows?"

Then, when the farmer's son was attempting to tame one of the wild horses, he fell off its back and broke his leg. Everyone thought this very bad luck. Not the farmer, whose only reaction was, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

Some weeks later, the army marched into the village and conscripted every able-bodied youth they found there. When they saw the farmer's son with his broken leg, they let him off. Now was that good luck or bad luck?

Who knows?

[Dylan Page]

@egoeimai Indeed, I tend to judge misfortune as a sort of inherently bad, tragic thing, but honestly, it’s a silly judgement. I really have no idea what the significance of any of these things are. Just because something is painful doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad or meaningless. There could definitely be some overlooked purpose behind it. But, unfortunately, we don’t really know. 

[Dylan Page]

@Osaid That story is brilliant, love it. 

[Dylan Page]

@Keyhole How can you be sure of this? Why do you say that he chooses people at random and that he loves some more than others? I’m open to the possibility, but I’m not entirely sure that that claim is entirely logically consistent. For example, how do we know what our bests interests are when all of us are riddled with ignorance and false confidence? How can you reasonably assume that whoever gets chosen for the good or the bad is random/meaningless? Wouldn’t you have to be god itself to be aware of something like that? I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m saying I don’t think it’s reasonable to assume that it is. It’s important to be careful not to assume the worst. We humans have a tendency to do that. 

[Leo Gura]

The entire Universe is designed to maximize Love.

But you're need to be infinitely conscious to see how every detail fits into that grand scheme. You are nowhere close to being conscious enough to see that. So from your POV its seems like good or bad stuff in happening randomly. But bad stuff is not actually happening at all. It only seems that way from your limited POV.

[Dylan Page]

@Keyhole The argument is convincing to a degree, and you’re certainly right about the fact that we don’t want the worst to be true. What I’m saying is, even though a 16 year old may get brain cancer, that event taking place might not be totally out of line with what is best for that 16 year old, even if it seems totally opposite to that. Given that identities are not real, the death of that 16 year old could be a massive awakening to the true self that was there all along. We can’t be caught up on what we can see around us. There could easily be so much more than meets the eye. 

[Member]

I think that things happen without any purpose - fortune, misfortune, good, bad are all human concepts.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Keyhole said:

That love is an extreme indifference.  I've had awakenings after succumbing to torture, to be told it was all a miracle, that it was all for me.  Gods narrative is that of an abusers, and we are all stuck in a form of Stockholm syndrome trying to justify it.  It does seek to maximise love.  It's own love.  What it does with its toys in the process it doesn't concern itself with.

No, your consciousness is insufficient to understand.

And God is not other than you.

Whatever awakening you had wasn't deep enough.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

How can you be so sure when you know and have experienced those two different energies at play but only choose to dabble in one side?

God is me, but I am just a small part of it.  I don't control the whole mechanism.  I'm just a piece. 

You get to love through extreme indifference to your own suffering.  The key absolutely is indifference.

It's not a matter of indifference, it's a matter of consciousness.

"I am just a small part of it" is only true from the limited ego POV. The point is to transcend that, to realize you are the whole thing.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

I can accept that just fine, but why should other people live their lives never knowing?

They don't want to know.

Few people want to wake up. So life is designed to teach these people gradually, at their own pace.

[LastThursday]

2 hours ago, Dylan Page said:

One of my greatest interests is in understanding why good and bad things happen to people.

Good and bad are only relative to your own survival. In those terms bad is something that diminishes your ability to survive. And, survival is just the avoidance of physical death.

To understand the why you have to understand survival. Every single human being lives on a knife-edge in terms of survival. There are a zillion things that can cause your death and you are constantly trying to avoid those things. The potential for bad things to happen to you is very high. In fact it is a miracle that you are still alive. That miracle has come about from all the good things that have happened to you: having nurturing parents, having food regularly, bathing regularly, having common sense and so on.

In a certain sense some people bring "bad" into their lives (and others' lives) precisely because they are not "good" at survival. But most of the bad stuff in our lives happens because the potential for it is very high.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

It wasn't an ego pov it was a download after going through the fear of death-  souls of others like in an infinite cosmic soup of nothing.  All connected but still their own bubbles

My ego was gone at that point

I had accepted my mortality and received that gift.

There is a deep level of awakening you have yet to reach.

17 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

So then why does God abandon its creations?  Why not give them knowing and sight?  What is the reason for blindness?

God doesn't abandon, they abandon God. God will not force itself upon someone who is unwilling and closed.

A devil is one who rejects God.

God is such an epic thing that it cannot be forced on someone. One must come to God willingly. There must be a desire for truth.

God cannot help a person who doesn't care about truth or love.

The denial of truth and love is itself one of God's powers, since God is infinite it must have the capacity to deny itself. Which is how devils are born.

So paradoxically it is God's love that creates devils.

[Member]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God doesn't abandon, they abandon God. God will not force itself upon someone who is unwilling and closed.

But if a child dies, he will ever know anything? Why do we have to rationally understand God? I think that both the child and the awakened one experience God through the simple act of living.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Member said:

But if a child dies, he will ever know anything? Why do we have to rationally understand God? I think that both the child and the awakened one experience God through the simple act of living.

Death is God. So your question makes no sense.

[Member]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Death is God. So your question makes no sense.

Then life is the devil?

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

@Leo Gura It wouldn't need to be forced it could just be part of life in a visible way that all are free to understand and partake in, but it chooses not to.

Haha! 

God is everywhere you look. It is life itself!

Everyone is free to partake and understand. But you choose not to. Because you are too scared.

It's like God gave you an epic Xmas gift but you are to scared to open it. What is God supposed to do? Force you and traumatize you? Then you will hate God for assaulting you. So God patiently waits for you to muster the courage to open the gift.

Quote

God is evil

 YOU ARE GOD!

For fuck's sake!

[Member]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

God is everywhere you look. It is life itself!

If it is life itself, then you experience God just by being alive. So both the child and the enlightened one are equal in the God's eye.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Member said:

If it is life itself, then you experience God just by being alive.

Yes, but the child doesn't know it.

4 minutes ago, Member said:

So both the child and the enlightened one are equal in the God's eye.

Yes and no. The child is not awake. But God doesn't judge unawakened people.

3 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

@Leo Gura

This is my last post here I am not getting what you are saying and I hate wasting people's time.

It's okay. God is patient. You will get it one day.