Ghosting

[EternalForest]

In Leo's latest video "How To Forgive Anyone Who Hurt You - A Powerful Trauma Release Exercise" he says there are 5 basic reasons why people hurt you:

1. Ignorance

2. Fear/Weakness

3. Unconsciousness

4. Selfishness

5. A need for love

_________________________________________________

Two of my best friends for years (or so I thought) cut me out of their life a couple years ago. They stopped answering my calls and texts, and stopped contacting me. They even gave back all the gifts that I gave them. There was no formal end to a relationship or a "Goodbye". If they would have done that I would have respected it, but they instead just ghosted me. To this day, I don't know why, they only gave a vague "I'm getting my life together."

In "How To Deal With Difficult & Toxic People", Leo said that doing this type of thing is a valid method of cutting someone out of your life, to simply just stop all contact. But what they did was very hurtful. I respect that their life may be better off without me, but I'm just confused because none of those 5 reasons explain what they did. They weren't ignorant or fearful about what they were doing, it was deliberate. And they could at least keep in touch a few times a year to see how I'm doing, I certainly would like to know how they're doing...

So where does ghosting fit into all this? Is ghosting right or wrong?

[Preety_India]

 

@EternalForest

Ghosting is a part of narcissistic behavior that has its roots in selfishness. 

So it fits into the top 5 reasons. 

 

 

[EternalForest]

@Preety_India I suppose it could be selfishness, but I view selfishness more as exploiting someone or trying to get something out of somebody. That wasn't the case, they just pretended like I never existed.

[Preety_India]

@EternalForest

What you're describing as selfishness can be considered as exploitation, scamming and using. 

Selfishness is a general tendency to only think about the self with complete disregard for another's feelings. 

For example if some amount of toilet paper or sanitizer is stocked on the shelf of a store and a man buys all of it knowing fully well that others might also need it, is not exactly exploitation because he isn't exploiting a particular person but simply doesn't care for other's needs but only his needs. This is selfish behavior. 

Similarly when someone is ghosting you they only care about their own goals and motives with complete disregard for the feelings and emotional state of the person being ghosted. 

This is again selfish because they don't care to address how you feel, like abandoning a pet on the roadside.. Ghosting can cause temporary trauma and feelings of abandonment. But selfish people don't care about that. They hurt others freely and go on their way like nothing happened. 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Preety_India

[Preety_India]

 

Ghosting is a common technique used by narcissists to make the victim feel punished, isolated, abandoned or inferior. 

 

 

 

[EternalForest]

@Keyhole Thanks, unfortunately it's subjective what's considered toxic, since there can be different kinds of toxicity. In the friendship many would say I was being too needy and demanded more of their time and energy than they were willing to give. But I also felt that they led me on a lot, made me believe they were closer to me than they actually were, they sort of viewed me in a patronizing way, like a child, easy to manipulate.

[Preety_India]

21 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

But I also felt that they led me on a lot, made me believe they were closer to me than they actually were, they sort of viewed me in a patronizing way, like a child, easy to manipulate.

That can be considered as self righteousness. This can be a combination of selfishness, unconsciousness and ignorance. 

But in any case, whatever may have been their opinion of you, ghosting is usually a sign that the person who doesn't care much. Because even if they thought you were needy, they would end things in a more meaningful manner and give you closure if they cared enough. 

 

But the other side is possible as well. You could think that you did something that made it look like you deserved the ghosting, you could be feeling a sense of Insecurity that you irked them by acting needy. This means your own Insecurity is hounding you and you aren't able to decide if what they did was right or wrong because somewhere you guilt yourself into thinking and believing that it must be your fault that they did this. If that's the case, you need to reverse the title and put it as "how to forgive myself." 

The mind has an incredible capacity to generate infinite scenarios and contexts and your situation could fit right into any of those scenarios. 

This is a see-saw Paradox. 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Preety_India

[EternalForest]

@Preety_India I agree that if they cared more they would have had enough decency to give me proper closure, but shortly before cutting me off, they expressed a lot of guilt for wasting my time, I never understood what that meant. It was almost like they felt like they were a bad influence on me? It's hard to explain.

So in a sense, that even more rules out selfishness, because they could have been being selfLESS, but still ended up causing me pain, since I honestly believed they were a good influence on me, despite their patronizing nature.

@Keyhole It is context dependent, sure. It's not that I don't forgive them for what they did, because if they wanted to start a new life without saying goodbye it's their choice, but it's moreso that I resent all the unanswered questions. I'm not entitled to answers, but I feel like, for the connection (I thought) we had, the relationship deserved a better sendoff. We were close.

Edited May 15, 2020 by EternalForest

[The observer]

@EternalForest There's no reason why anyone does anything at all. Even if they say they have certain reasons, you're the one interpreting whatever they say. If I said that I love you, would you believe me? If yes, then, well, that's exactly the problem. You give away too much authority. Instead, suck it up and take responsibility. There's nothing personal about anything.

[EternalForest]

@The observer I don't understand. Take responsibility for how you feel? How does that work?

[Preety_India]

19 minutes ago, EternalForest said:

 I agree that if they cared more they would have had enough decency to give me proper closure, but shortly before cutting me off, they expressed a lot of guilt for wasting my time, I never understood what that meant. It was almost like they felt like they were a bad influence on me? It's hard to explain.

So in a sense, that even more rules out selfishness, because they could have been being selfLESS, but still ended up causing me pain, since I honestly believed they were a good influence on me, despite their patronizing nature.

If that's the case, then nobody did anything wrong here. You are not wrong because in your mind you did absolutely nothing to deserve it. They are not wrong because they experienced an impediment and felt guilty for not being able to do enough. Hence their impediment absolves them of their guilt. So there is nobody to forgive here. You simply got hurt as a by product of an unfortunate situation between you and them.

Neither is wrong and neither is guilty. The hurt is caused without intention or wrongdoing. So you have to simply let go. 

Consider it similar to an accident. The 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Preety_India

[EternalForest]

@Preety_India True, I'll try my best to let it go. And as Leo said I may have to look inward here and realize that maybe I'm being selfish for being "in need of their friendship", or "deserving of their friendship" when they're simply not interested in it, neither are they obligated. No one is required to be my friend, they have to want to be.

@Keyhole Interesting take. It is a pattern I've noticed where I give either too much or too little in relationships, and they can fizzle out for both reasons. I have 3 consistent best friends I've known for about 10 years that I'm on very good terms with, as I've gotten older I've realized that they're really all I need since I've nurtured them and respected boundaries. In a sense, the friendships I've treated the least "serious" tend to last the longest since there isn't as much of an impulse or expectation attached.

Edited May 15, 2020 by EternalForest

[Preety_India]

@EternalForest

Often times such a complex situation arises out of not being able to give enough autonomy and freedom to the other person. Once you let them free and let them do what they want without your opinion coloring their decisions, everything falls right into place.

When you give freedom, in the same moment, you also become free 

I always known that freedom is the greatest form of love. When you love everyone you Free everyone. 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Preety_India

[egoeimai]

1 hour ago, EternalForest said:

@Preety_India

@Keyhole

 

 

1 hour ago, EternalForest said:

 

In a sense, the friendships I've treated the least "serious" tend to last the longest since there isn't as much of an impulse or expectation attached.

That happened to me as well. So it's the key to good long lasting friendships ?

[universe]

Stopping communication can be very harmful. Not even just in the long term, but also short term. Like when you are with someone and they stop listening to you. Anyone who does this to you doesnt really belong in your life.

But that is not the main issue here. The main issue as I see it, is that you have something inside of you that is triggered when people dont behave the way you want them to. Being controlling over people is abusive and will make people with a healthy self-esteem want to distance themselves from you.

People who are controlling usually have a need for protection/safety in their life. My advice for you would be to look inside, feel where this need for protection is coming from. What are you afraid of? Let that fear come. Its just a feeling. Listen to it and accept it. Then the fear will go away.

When you let go of the need to feel protected you will be better aligned with reality. Reality isnt safe and it wont protect you. No matter how hard you try. If you can accept that, life will flow easier. And when people harm you, you will be prepared to deal with it.

[The observer]

4 hours ago, EternalForest said:

@The observer I don't understand. Take responsibility for how you feel? How does that work?

Take responsibility for your own life. When you care too much about someone, they're gonna automatically subconsciously assume that you are needy. And even if they are conscious, needy is still not attractive because it feels like a drag. It's just too much pressure and it's unsustainable on the long term. And yes, it is your problem, not theirs. People get attracted to attractive stuff, and they get turned off by unattractive stuff. If you didn't know back then how to be attractive, it's fine, you can still learn. In fact, that's a very valuable lesson for you not to place too much importance on others but to instead be the leader of your own life.

[Arcangelo]

I cut 2 of my very best friends, Jay and Dee, out of my life by ghosting them. I ghosted them because I am a non-confrontational individual. I didn't want to have that difficult talk, I could have written them letters but I didn't. 

The 1st one was Jay, I cut him out of my life because of a lot of a reasons. He was toxic.

The 2nd one was Dee, my relationship with Dee was narcissistic-codependent. He was the narcissistic one. He took advantage of me in the form of me letting him smoke all of my weed. He was the world's biggest moocher. 

You gotta understand that it took me months to let them go. It took me months to build the courage to pull the plug. I ghosted them and blocked them. It felt like dropping a nuke over the friendship.    

The only thing I regret is not doing it earlier.

I ghosted them because I read an article saying that I don't owe anyone explanations about anything that I do in my life.

13 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Ghosting is a common technique used by narcissists to make the victim feel punished, isolated, abandoned or inferior. 

IDK Pretty in my case I was the codependent one. BUT it did feel like I was punishing, disrespecting and hurting them. It felt like revenge.

But they disrespected, hurt and punished me first, so I just paid them back with the same coin.

The only thing I regret is not doing it earlier. I am so much better now w/o them in my life.

13 hours ago, Keyhole said:

You're asking if ghosting is right or wrong

 Ghosting is wrong.

8 hours ago, universe said:

Not even just in the long term, but also short term. Like when you are with someone and they stop listening to you. Anyone who does this to you doesnt really belong in your life.

Thank you!

They used to be my very best friends, I did care about them, I just stopped caring. So if anyone says: -''It wasn't friendship in the first place''

You are wrong, it was friendship. 

@EternalForest Your ex-friends were probably non-confrontational like most people are. The connection was real, you guys used to be real friends.

13 hours ago, EternalForest said:

they expressed a lot of guilt for wasting my time

This is weird, it always felt like I was the one wasting my time with them. After hanging out with them I felt used, depressed and angry at myself, good red flags to determine whether someone is toxic or not.

Now that I think of it's not so weird because you go through a phase where you know that you must cut them out but you still hang out with them. That's when EVERYONE is wasting everyone's time. In my mind  we were no longer friends, but still hanged out w/o them knowing. Fucked up I know.

No friends > shitty friends.

 

Arc

[Preety_India]

 

1 minute ago, Arcangelo said:

No friends > shitty friends.

 

Arc

Completely agree with you Arc. 

Welcome back though 

 

[Arcangelo]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Welcome back though

Thank you my friend!

[Kalki Avatar]

@Preety_India Actually being selfish can be the healthiest thing for everyone. If you are not harming physically or intentionally other people its ok. How are you going to help others without helping yourself first? Thats true selfish behaviour.

I think the problem relies in attachment in relationships instead of simply relating to others. If everyone is centered and not identified with others, it won't affect if you leave. Thats the crude truth and we must learn to accept and love others like that. Thats accepting others people freedom. Otherwise we are being selfish by wanting them to be trapped to our expectations. Even the fact of being expectant of someone explaining why they left, if they dont want to explain it, thats their choice. It would be selfish to force them to explain why they dont want to. 

One of my ex-gfs which we knew each other from childhood, to school to being my neighboor, after graduating school she blocked me and did not want to talk to me. Even years after I have come to say hi by meeting her randomly on the street and she was not very happy to see me. I asked her if every thing was ok and she said yes but i knew not, but thats okay. I accept it even it hurted and moved on. Shes free to do as she likes. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Kalki Avatar