There is no such thing as "unconsciousness", is there?

[Mert]

@ivankiss There is such a thing as "unconsciousness" but it's still inside the Universal Consciousness. If there is no such a thing as unconsciousness how is it that people act in a way that is dysfunctional and can't stop themselves only to go to the therapy or have a sudden realization that big chunk of their personality was a result of their childhood trauma. But this "unconscious" desires thoughts etc were still present and made of consciousness. Your ego just didn't like them and repressed them. It's like, looking at your visual field right now and only paying attention to things that you as a biological organism decided that important for your survival. But you still saw other things right? They were in your visual field. You just didn't give a shit. At least that's how I make sense of it.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Mert

[The observer]

1 minute ago, ivankiss said:

@The observer Indeed.

Half-assignment, in my opinion, leads one to even greater delusion than they were in prior to their "awakening".

It's a phase. Yet many are convinced it is IT.

I don't mean that.

I mean people who have no idea about enlightenment whatsoever are the most enlightened. It's when they get infected with the concept and then become seekers is where all delusion resides. The concept of enlightenment is the main delusion that prevents enlightenment. Before enlightenment, that was enlightenment. After enlightenment, will be enlightenment. It's only during the seeking of enlightenment that it stops occurring. Quite ironic if you ask me, yet still necessary for God's evolution. Nothing is a waste, even delusion, especially delusion.

[ivankiss]

@Mert "People acting in a dysfunctional way" is yet another thought. A judgement. Isn't it? I understand what you are saying, but can one see divine perfection in "unconscious behaviour"? Is there really anything that's fundamentally dysfunctional? 

Everything seems to be functioning flawlessly over here  No matter how I feel or think about it.

@The observer I hear you. Not sure if we're on the same wave, but gotcha. 

Who could blame us though? All this enlightenment stuff, or as you allude; the concept of enlightenment, is pretty damn exciting, isn't it? 

We are playful beings. We like to juggle ideas.

Edited May 13, 2020 by ivankiss

[James123]

2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Who could blame us though? All this enlightenment stuff, or as you elude; the concept of enlightenment, is pretty damn exciting, isn't it? 

Of course. That’s usually how it starts. You must pursue to find enlightenment. However, one day you will understand that enlightenment is not pursuing, it is actually just being, which is giving up all personal desire. Specially enlightenment. Because desires increase the thoughts. Enlightenment is the place that you reach without thoughts. And after that you realize, there is no enlightenment or enlightened, all is you and you exist as nothing. Awareness itself. 

[ivankiss]

@James123 I am because I desire to be. 

Being is pure desire. Passion. Love. Playfulness. Joy. Bliss.

Demonizing desire is a part of the old spiritual paradigm. As well as demonizing the ego, maya, or anything else. It screams separation.

There is, for the sake of the argument; unhealthy desire. Or better yet; misaligned desire. Irrelevant desire.

But fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with desire. It's not in your way. Just like thoughts are not in your way. Or feelings. Or egos. Or maya. Or anything else.

That's just a very outdated spiritual path.

Edited May 13, 2020 by ivankiss

[James123]

4 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

I am because I desire to be. 

Being is pure desire. Passion. Love. Playfulness. Joy. Bliss.

Demonizing desire is a part of the old spiritual paradigm. As well as demonizing the ego, maya, or anything else. It screams separation.

There is, for the sake of the argument; unhealthy desire. Or better yet; misaligned desire. Irrelevant desire.

But fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with desire. It's not in your way. Just like thoughts are not in your way. Or feelings. Or egos. Or maya. Or anything else.

That's just a very outdated spiritual path.

If you desire as your body or ego you are wrong. If you desire as nothingness or everything is you, yes you are right. But thoughts limits you even if you desire as i am. Because thoughts has no differences then the chair, or ego. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by James123

[ivankiss]

@James123 Retrospectively; I have never seen or experienced an ego. 

I was just feeling and thinking a lot.

Since forever.

All I had to do was to empty the recycle bin.

Things run much smoother now. 

No bugs. No errors. 

No egos flying around 

[Nahm]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

I really do wish that you just answer my question rather than giving me obvious explanation of how thoughts arise and go. 

It seems like there’s fear in letting thoughts go. That’s what ‘attachment’ to thoughts is all about. It seems like there needs to be a satisfying answer, but there isn’t. It’d just be another thought. Feeling is what you’re lookin for. More of it. It’s awesome. Everybody wants more of it. Very few will let thoughts go, but when we do, feeling, like a cork held under water...rises of it’s own accord. Let go of every thought for a day, feels good, a few days, feels really good, a week or two, shit, forget about it, amazing feelings. Can’t get this from these words though, only in practice & actuality. 

[James123]

6 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@James123 Retrospectively; I have never seen or experienced an ego. 

I was just feeling and thinking a lot.

Since forever.

All I had to do was to empty the recycle bin.

Things run much smoother now. 

No bugs. No errors. 

No egos flying around 

Great brother. I was a very egoistic person. Lol. But be careful to thinking. Because i was lost with thinking or try to find it with thoughts. Lol. 

[Consept]

I guess unconsciousness isn't really any thing, it's an absence of consciousness or a void of consciousness. 

We can't experience it with consciousness. In theory it probably doesn't exist, your conscious waking mind is just one state, you can be in different states many of which your conscious mind isn't aware of or at least can't remember clearly, ie flow state, sub-conscious, sleep state etc. But while you're alive you'll have some sort of consciousness, when you die your body will no longer hold your consciousness, then you'll find out what happens after that. 

[ivankiss]

@James123 I feel ya. Thanks.

I enjoy thinking. Always did. It's just that I now also know the power of no-thought. 

@Consept I think I've got a clue of what happens, but I don't want to ruin the surprise for myself haha.

Thanks for your input!

[Bulgarianspirit]

What we really are is such a bizarre thing.  To me this resembles deep sleep you are unaware of yourself and others no conception of anything. When we are in deep sleep we are nowhere nothing its like we disappear for mostly 8 hours. Was a interesting experience for me had a surgery and i only remember the doc saying go to sleep now. And i did and for a while there i was nothing/nowhere. Then it was like a was teleported ,like rebirth i has no idea where i am then remembered.In my trips there was almost always something,but i have also reached nothing ocassionally and damm im not there lol xD.Its like you melt/disappear.You are also very chill about it you want sleep everynight,just to let go of the costume and rest in nothingness.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit

[Osaid]

@Someone here You have never experienced anything outside of consciousness. No one has. The idea of a world without your awareness is an assumption that you make.

[Espaim]

Yes. I am an unconscious devil.

[Galyna]

14 hours ago, ivankiss said:

How could I know this for sure, without being conscious of not being conscious? 

Sorry, did not have time to read all the thread, but from what I have read so far, there is no such thing/concept as non-existence, it implies that there is no such thing as unconsciousness as well. Merely, because everything is made out of consciousness. It is all encapsulating love!

Of course, we can not know for sure, but the reality would have "to expand"(maybe it is not a correct word in this case) to include unconsciousness on top of what is. 

It is not a point, apriori.

Sorry if my language is limited and I can not explain it more explicitly. 

For anything to appear "as is" you have to be conscious, therefore, we can deduct that unconscious state is impossible. There would be no one there to experience it, IMHO. If there is no experience, then there is nothing outside of it.

 

Edited May 14, 2020 by Galyna

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Osaid said:

@Someone here You have never experienced anything outside of consciousness. No one has. The idea of a world without your awareness is an assumption that you make.

I have never experienced any thing outside of awareness because awareness itself is the ability to experience things.. Isn't that obvious?. 

I never experienced anything outside of my awareness =there is nothing outside of my awareness for sure???? 

Awareness =existence? 

Or

Awareness = perception of existence? 

I think we should start here and answer these questions a clear (and justified) answer. 

[zeroISinfinity]

7 hours ago, Espaim said:

Yes. I am an unconscious devil.

My man. 

[Consept]

@Someone here

If awareness is only perceiving existence, does the awareness exist? 

[zeroISinfinity]

4 minutes ago, Consept said:

@Someone here

If awareness is only perceiving existence, does the awareness exist? 

But what if Existance is perceiving Awareness? Does Existance exists? 

Mindblown. 

(wait, wait, wait and horde of non dualist snobs will appear with Awareness - Existance that's duality and here we go again) 

Edited May 14, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness is an infinite field. Like light, it can go from zero to infinite brightness, and everything in between.

Consciousness can become more and more conscious of it itself, reaching infinite levels and infinite orders. Or it can be not conscious of itself.

It's just a single knob that spins infinitely in both directions.