What is space?

[seeking_brilliance]

While writing, I began to think about how to describe space, or actually what we call outer space. It became impossible to actually describe. Space is nothing: there's no air, no substance, no movement. Space is ever reaching as far as we know, and penetrates even down to the smallest known measurements. To that current evidence, we say there's nothing that isn't contained in space.  Space is alpha.  And yet, none of these are descriptions. Space simply is space.  Reminds me of... ?‍♂️

So what's all that other stuff?? ?

(oh and also it apparently smells like fumes or burnt charring meat... I knew we were in hell!! Jk) 

Edited May 12, 2020 by seeking_brilliance

[tsuki]

 

[Leo Gura]

Space is just Mind/Consciousness.

Mind is an infinite empty field which can imagine anything.

The irony is that if you take 5-MeO-DMT, you will realize what Ralston is saying, but Ralston will deny this possibility. Lol!

Oh how silly even the enlightened ones are.

[tsuki]

So, now we're grinding Ralston, huh? Alrighty.

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, tsuki said:

So, now we're grinding Ralston, huh? Alrighty.

It's just a fact that he's wrong about 5-MeO-DMT.

Test us both and see who's right. I dare you.

[tsuki]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Test us both and see who's right.

You're such a charm when your ass is on fire, Leo ?.

[wordsforliving]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's just a fact that he's wrong about 5-MeO-DMT.

Is he bias against 5-MeO-DMT?  Apologies, I am not drawn to listen to him so my interest drops off at 5 seconds with him in particular. 

Other spiritual teachers I've listened to are against psychedelics and I'm trying to figure out exactly why that is. 

[tsuki]

1 minute ago, wordsforliving said:

Other spiritual teachers I've listened to are against psychedelics and I'm trying to figure out exactly why that is. 

I'm also interested in discovering why. The obvious answer that they simply want to prevent us from realizing stuff on our own doesn't feel right.

There's also the appeal of finding things out "naturally", through "hard work", but I know that's how collective ego labels things to dismiss them.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, wordsforliving said:

Is he bias against 5-MeO-DMT? 

He denies it produces enlightenment.

[tsuki]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

He denies it produces enlightenment.

It just seems silly to me. There is this question that bugs me: to whom enlightenment happens?
Well, obviously it does not happen to the human, but practices are performed by the human.
Is the goal of the practices to simply get the human out of the way? To be clear, I also include psychedelics as a practice.

Like, how INSANE is this that doing anything in the relative domain would get "me" closer to realizing anything?
This simply does not compute in my monkey mind. Just imagine striking a silly pose and I'm instantly enlightened to the nature of the mind.

How silly is this? Why any particular thing would get me any closer to self-realization than any other thing?

[Verdesbird]

7 minutes ago, tsuki said:

It just seems silly to me. There is this question that bugs me: to whom enlightenment happens?
Well, obviously it does not happen to the human, but practices are performed by the human.
Is the goal of the practices to simply get the human out of the way? To be clear, I also include psychedelics as a practice.

Like, how INSANE is this that doing anything in the relative domain would get "me" closer to realizing anything?
This simply does not compute in my monkey mind. Just imagine striking a silly pose and I'm instantly enlightened to the nature of the mind.

How silly is this? Why any particular thing would get me any closer to self-realization than any other thing?

its not about the human-form you are at

its about the kind or reality you are in (the most precious one according to budhists)

[tsuki]

@Verdesbird That's an interesting start for an answer, but it's too short. Care to share some pointers?

 

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Why any particular thing would get me any closer to self-realization than any other thing?

Why not?

Reality is imaginary, but it has layers to it. Chemistry is a pretty fundamental layer. Chemistry mediates your current mood and state of consciousness, so obviously changing it will have a huge fundamental impact, moreso than meditation or yoga or listening to Ralston.

Your neurotransmitters dictate everything you see and know.

[Verdesbird]

20 minutes ago, tsuki said:

@Verdesbird That's an interesting start for an answer, but it's too short. Care to share some pointers?

 

these ideas are based in the esoteric Buddhism

here are some free books for you to read,many are in portuguese so you just google-translate then

http://www.jardimdharma.org.br/ensinamentos/apostilas

http://www.jardimdharma.org.br/ensinamentos/livros

also to understand better what im sayng in this forum you can also read the teachings of the great white fraternity (original doctrine book) im not an adept of then but they took inumerous ideas from theosophy and esoteric budhism

Edited May 12, 2020 by Verdesbird

[tsuki]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why not?

Because it's relative. There is no "fundamental" level within relativity. Every single relative thing is dependent on some other circumstance. You may alter the chemistry of the brain and it's definitely the basis for how the brain works, but chemistry is dependent on some other thing. That other thing is more "fundamental" in this sense, but it's still contingent, relative. Any chain of dependencies within the relative cannot possibly lead to the absolute.

Every finite thing has no separate existence and is grounded in some other finite thing. The relative, as a whole, is infinite because it allows for this chain of infinite dependence, but it is infinite only because it, as a whole, depends on the absolute that does not depend on anything else. The absolute is the primordial infinity within itself. It includes every opposite and does not contradict itself.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Your neurotransmitters dictate everything you see and know.

I remember that you once provided me with a metaphor that individual ego is the prism through which Love shines different colors.

I think that this metaphor extends to this instance. We can only know the Absolute because we are it, prior to any happenstance we're identified with within the relative. Hence the idea of moving the human aside.

I can see how seeing vast swaths of relativity may help to convince someone that it is infinite and psychedelics can be helpful with that. I don't believe though that it can take you to the Absolute. I'm not an experienced tripper, so these are just my beliefs.

Edited May 12, 2020 by tsuki

[Kshantivadin]

@Leo Gura  uh... how can you claim these things about reality? do we really know? neurotransmitters? sounds like a big-time concept.

[Kshantivadin]

8 minutes ago, tsuki said:

I think that this metaphor extends to this instance. We can only know the Absolute because we are it, prior to any happenstance we're identified with within the relative.

yes! it seems to me like this is the case.

also, i'm going to say something really weird, i went out of a retreat recently and i feel like i truly don't know anything anymore -

the relative IS the absolute, the absolute IS the relative, on the most fundamental level of reality.

but going a bit shallower than that, relativity only happens in the realm of concepts. No conceptualization, no relativity.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Kshantivadin

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Any chain of dependencies within the relative cannot possibly lead to the absolute.

Well, you assume. But that is demonstrably false.

I can trigger an enlightenment on command in 15 minutes.

Stop theorizing about how reality works and explore how it actually works. It may surprise you.

By your silly logic a bullet could not kill a person because it is relative. But it can, because a person is relative too. Likewise, your state of unenlightenment is relative and can be releived with a chemical, which is also relative.

Here is a very simple fact: a bullet to the head will lead you straight to the Absolute.

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Kshantivadin said:

neurotransmitters? sounds like a big-time concept

Of course it's a concept. But we need some handles to speak. All handles are relative.

[Someone here]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why not?

Reality is imaginary, but it has layers to it. Chemistry is a pretty fundamental layer. Chemistry mediates your current mood and state of consciousness, so obviously changing it will have a huge fundamental impact, moreso than meditation or yoga or listening to Ralston.

Your neurotransmitters dictate everything you see and know.

I think your metaphysics is confusing and somehow contradicts itself. It's like either there's nervous system and brains and all that or there isn't. What difference does it make to say that there is but it's imaginary?