Should I Bother Myself With Pickup?

[dboyle]

UGH! So some of you may remember me from the thread talking about a 21 year male virgin who was thinking about hiring an escort. I'm back with something new!

And when I mean pickup, I mean it in the sense where you're going out to nightclubs everyday and constantly opening sets until you hook a girl. 

In my current mind, all I want to do is to get a girlfriend (which is hard enough for me as I'm not physically attractive).

But here's the thing: If I do get a girlfriend, I'll still have this nagging thing at the back of my mind, and that is I should be trying to sleep with as many girls as I possibly can.

I also have this insecurity where I think every girl I am attracted to is supremely experienced with sex already (and have some evidence from my life that 's true), and that I am severely lacking and am lagging behind my general age range with regards to sex. Which further adds to the nagging belief that I should sleep around and get my 'lay-count' up.

I know I know I know that what I'm saying is deep in to lower consciousness territory, but it still doesn't stop the feelings go away. 

So I'm pondering whether I should immerse myself in pickup. 

I mean, I don't want to do it. I REALLY don't want to do it. But how else is a guy like me meant to get good with girls and to have sex?

Btw, one reason I don't want to do it is that the whole thing genuinely is not authentically me. The thought of me going out and trying it is depressing me. Like, going up to groups women, getting rejected, doing it again and again, until I get lucky? What's the point? [I've already seen Leo's vid btw]

Another is that pickup will disrupt my life for a while. I wake up very early every single day; something that I've started doing as a way to set up my day and the start of a great morning routine. Pickup will have to make me a nightowl. 

I feel like I'm at the age where I should be focusing on my values and life purpose (via Life Purpose Course  ), as that is what makes me happy. 

But should I brave through some unhappiness so I can get good with girls?

I'm in limbo at the moment, and would love and appreciate some advice.

X

[J. M. Wigglesworth]

If you don't want to pickup chicks then don't.  Especially if it's deeply out of energetic alignment with you. But since you also seemed fairly insecure, understand that your exceptional reluctance towards pickup may also be a response of self-preservation from your mind to not go through so much emotional labor. Be very clear on this. Getting good with women will be an emotionally rigorous process, regardless of which path you take, if you aren't good already.

My advice is to go hard on dating but use the most powerful principles pickup artists have found over the years: Grounded, on-your-purpose, socially-calibrated, fun-creating, non-judgmental and non-supplicating. Internalize these principles and learn a little bit of technique to let them shine through.. Embody masculine energy and develop a deep understanding over attraction and human nature  Honestly, all of that above, is a little bit far off right now.

Here's what you need to be doing: Go out on 5 dates by next week. Does this sound any easier than game? It shouldn't. The work is unavoidable. Since you considered using a prostitute for your v-card, you probably aren't around that many women in your daily life, so I presume finding that many dates may prove difficult.

 

If you can't get that kind of volume/intensity then I'd try 'Day game'. Basically, you find venues during the day(coffee shop, streets downtown, malls) and you chat up girls. Honestly, this is the best compromise I can think of. There won't be as many girls or any anonymity while you screw up but they'll be nicer than the ones at clubs(if only for prudence) and you won't have to mess up your sleep.

 

If it still isn't clear, I'll say it again. Interact with as many women as physically possible  with man-to-woman communication. Expect awkwardness and have fun with the whole process. 

[ProblemSolving]

You basically stumble from one thing to another. And that is completely understandable. I lost my virginity to a prostitute. And right now I even think about pickup sometimes, just as a demonstration of what is possible for me in life. I think that the biggest problem is that you make it a big problem. Do whatever you want to do. You can have sex with a hooker or do pickup. Maybe you will enjoy it or maybe you won't. Sometimes learning a lesson means to make a mistake. Because, let's face it, the greatest emotions when having sex probably will happen when you find someone who really cares about you. Intimacy is all that matters. Realize that we just live in a fucked up world, where sex is made a bigger thing than it actually is. Biologically it means to reproduce. In our society it became a status. Advertisement exploits sex to the max. Each blockbuster movie includes at least one sexy woman. Even the way that women dress is just a sexual overdose. We don't respect small cup sizes. They have to use push up bras to show the world that they have something to offer. Biologically it means, that a woman uses a push up bra to raise the chance of getting fertilized. 

[Emerald]

21 hours ago, dboyle said:

UGH! So some of you may remember me from the thread talking about a 21 year male virgin who was thinking about hiring an escort. I'm back with something new!

And when I mean pickup, I mean it in the sense where you're going out to nightclubs everyday and constantly opening sets until you hook a girl. 

In my current mind, all I want to do is to get a girlfriend (which is hard enough for me as I'm not physically attractive).

But here's the thing: If I do get a girlfriend, I'll still have this nagging thing at the back of my mind, and that is I should be trying to sleep with as many girls as I possibly can.

I also have this insecurity where I think every girl I am attracted to is supremely experienced with sex already (and have some evidence from my life that 's true), and that I am severely lacking and am lagging behind my general age range with regards to sex. Which further adds to the nagging belief that I should sleep around and get my 'lay-count' up.

I know I know I know that what I'm saying is deep in to lower consciousness territory, but it still doesn't stop the feelings go away. 

So I'm pondering whether I should immerse myself in pickup. 

I mean, I don't want to do it. I REALLY don't want to do it. But how else is a guy like me meant to get good with girls and to have sex?

Btw, one reason I don't want to do it is that the whole thing genuinely is not authentically me. The thought of me going out and trying it is depressing me. Like, going up to groups women, getting rejected, doing it again and again, until I get lucky? What's the point? [I've already seen Leo's vid btw]

Another is that pickup will disrupt my life for a while. I wake up very early every single day; something that I've started doing as a way to set up my day and the start of a great morning routine. Pickup will have to make me a nightowl. 

I feel like I'm at the age where I should be focusing on my values and life purpose (via Life Purpose Course  ), as that is what makes me happy. 

But should I brave through some unhappiness so I can get good with girls?

I'm in limbo at the moment, and would love and appreciate some advice.

X

My recommendation is to try out the pickup. I think your avoidance of pick-up (as well as putting yourself in a position where sleeping with a woman won't happen) is the result of fear of rejection and likely has a lot to do with unconscious attitudes of feeling like women hold all the cards in sex. You may fear being rejected by women because you think it means something intrinsically about your worth, when it doesn't. Women can have any number of reasons to say yes or no, most of which have nothing to do with the asker's worth or her opinion of the asker. The media often portrays women as being the gatekeepers of sex and holding all the power in the attraction dynamic, but this isn't true.

When a woman is interested in you, she likely has a ton of self-doubt as well unless she's fairly promiscuous and is a kind of pick up artist herself. As a woman, if I were single and I were socially expected to be the approacher, I would have a ton of trouble doing it even with the knowledge that guys would be more likely to say yes. So, I would learn a few techniques, go out to the club once or twice a week and try it out. Don't let it consume your life, or anything. Once you get past your fear of rejection and see that women are not all-powerful in the field of relationships and sexuality, your problems in this area will be part of the past. You just have to tear it off all in one go like a band-aid. Once you do, reality will replace illusion and the fear of rejection and sexual incompetence will go away naturally. But you have to make the jump. You'll be glad that you did. 

But don't worry about being rejected at the club, read up on signs of attraction in women. Approach a woman (by herself and NOT in a group) in a more platonic way at first. Ask for a dance if you're at the club or if she'd like a drink or something like that. She'll get that you're interested in her because of the nature of the club. She'll know what you want because that's what clubs are for, for the most part. So, if she says yes, then dance with her or buy her a drink. If she says no, find someone else. You'll eventually get a taker. As you're dancing, touch her in a platonic place (shoulders, hands, brush her hair from her face). If she seems okay with it and moves closer, move your hands to her hips or waist.

With every step you make, read her reaction. If she meets your advance then raise her one. Eventually, ask her if she wants to go some place quieter where you can talk. If she says yes, she undoubtedly already knows what you want and chances are she'll get physical with you to some degree if not go all the way. If she says no, ask her for a rain check and her phone number. So, basically you want to put yourself in a situation where you never have to be rejected in a painful way by easing your way into your advance. It isn't a binary thing where you walk up to a woman and her friends the loudly shout "WILL YOU HAVE SEX WITH ME!" then she shouts back "NEVER! YOU CREEP!" Then her and all of her girlfriends make fun of you and throw rotten tomatoes at you. It's more like you reading her reactions to see what she wants or doesn't want you to do. It's not about her wanting you or not wanting you, it's about her wanting you to do something or not wanting you to do something. So, instead of having to think 'She doesn't want me' it becomes 'I don't think she wanted her hips touched, that's okay.' or 'She didn't want a drink, that's okay.' So, doing it this way takes the pressure off. But even if she says no to you, also know that women are often quite flattered by being approached (appropriately/not cat-calling) by a man.  This method will work in a more platonic environment too... but you have to start out much more platonic and the arc of your 'game' will take a bit longer because it will have more steps to it. At a club, you can cut to the chase a bit quicker. 

[reez]

@dboyle Well, first of all you should realise that neither doing pickup or getting a hooker will solve your "problem" by itself. Try working out your limited beliefs first of all, and then move on. Else these beliefs will still stay there even after you've lost your virginity. 

I would recommend you to read "Awaken The Giant Within" - Tony Robbins in order to get ahead of your own mind, and get rid of limiting beliefs that most likely will limit you if you eventually get into pickup or something.

Once you have read that one and made the exercises these books should be a good read for you

"No More Mr. Nice Guy" - Robert Glover

"Models" - Mark Manson

"The Way of The Superior Man" - David Deida.

 

[Mal]

@dboyle

Go onto the pickup forums, read what they are about.

My guess is that you will soon drop the whole idea.

If not, you deserve all that's coming to you

[egoeimai]

@dboyle    Reading all this post....I thought..."pick up is not your problem. A girlfriend cant solve the problem.." and such. Maybe try to search anywhere else to find the root cause.

Really...Can she solve your issue or problem or complex or anything??? 

I dont think so.

[Lynnel]

Yes.

If you really wanna commit to doing it.

 

On 09/07/2016 at 7:36 AM, dboyle said:

I mean, I don't want to do it. I REALLY don't want to do it. But how else is a guy like me meant to get good with girls and to have sex?

If it's not happening naturally it's the only way. I haven't seen, heard or read any other option unfortuntely !

Look up all the classic RSD stuff if you wanna start smoothly.

 

Best of luck !

Edited July 12, 2016 by Lynnel

[charlie2dogs]

On 7/9/2016 at 1:36 AM, dboyle said:

UGH! So some of you may remember me from the thread talking about a 21 year male virgin who was thinking about hiring an escort. I'm back with something new!

And when I mean pickup, I mean it in the sense where you're going out to nightclubs everyday and constantly opening sets until you hook a girl. 

In my current mind, all I want to do is to get a girlfriend (which is hard enough for me as I'm not physically attractive).

But here's the thing: If I do get a girlfriend, I'll still have this nagging thing at the back of my mind, and that is I should be trying to sleep with as many girls as I possibly can.

I also have this insecurity where I think every girl I am attracted to is supremely experienced with sex already (and have some evidence from my life that 's true), and that I am severely lacking and am lagging behind my general age range with regards to sex. Which further adds to the nagging belief that I should sleep around and get my 'lay-count' up.

I know I know I know that what I'm saying is deep in to lower consciousness territory, but it still doesn't stop the feelings go away. 

So I'm pondering whether I should immerse myself in pickup. 

I mean, I don't want to do it. I REALLY don't want to do it. But how else is a guy like me meant to get good with girls and to have sex?

Btw, one reason I don't want to do it is that the whole thing genuinely is not authentically me. The thought of me going out and trying it is depressing me. Like, going up to groups women, getting rejected, doing it again and again, until I get lucky? What's the point? [I've already seen Leo's vid btw]

Another is that pickup will disrupt my life for a while. I wake up very early every single day; something that I've started doing as a way to set up my day and the start of a great morning routine. Pickup will have to make me a nightowl. 

I feel like I'm at the age where I should be focusing on my values and life purpose (via Life Purpose Course  ), as that is what makes me happy. 

But should I brave through some unhappiness so I can get good with girls?

I'm in limbo at the moment, and would love and appreciate some advice.

X

you are like a lost chicken in high weeds,  so far your topics have been about sex and getting women,   and at the same time you contradict yourself by saying: I feel like I'm at the age where I should be focusing on my values and life purpose (via Life Purpose Course  ), as that is what makes me happy

if that was what makes you happy your topics would have been totally different instead of on sex and women, you are only fooling yourself,

[electroBeam]

I'm pretty much in the same position as you are

And in my opinion, you should DEFINITELY do pickup. 

There are going to be times in life where you will HAVE TO do things that you DON'T want to endure and do, along with working long hours, solving family issues, pickup will be another one of those things.

Yes its going to be emotionally challenging, but at the end of the day, there will be a time in your life where you will die, and on your death bed you aren't going to be regretting all of the horrible embarresment you endured picking up chicks, the times a girl said "fuck off!" to you at a club, the time you completely made a fool of yourself in bed. You will be regretting the fact that you didn't try to sleep with anyone at all.

So stop worrying about how much you don't want to do pick up, and like a snow plower, plow through those negative experiences and DO PICKUP

Edited July 14, 2016 by electroBeam

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

I'm pretty much in the same position as you are

And in my opinion, you should DEFINITELY do pickup. 

There are going to be times in life where you will HAVE TO do things that you DON'T want to endure and do, along with working long hours, solving family issues, pickup will be another one of those things.

Yes its going to be emotionally challenging, but at the end of the day, there will be a time in your life where you will die, and on your death bed you aren't going to be regretting all of the horrible embarresment you endured picking up chicks, the times a girl said "fuck off!" to you at a club, the time you completely made a fool of yourself in bed. You will be regretting the fact that you didn't try to sleep with anyone at all.

So stop worrying about how much you don't want to do pick up, and like a snow plower, plow through those negative experiences and DO PICKUP

the world is pretty much full of walking dead people now, the real question is will who be one of the few that actually begins to live life consciously.  for the bigger part of men who function as the human identity only, its about women, picking em up, doing em and putting a notch in your bedpost, without any thought to what was created for you and them in this process and really for most men its just about getting a little pussy without any thought to what has been set in motion, however in this newage thinking, you are safe, its all about experiencing life, we can worry about the consequences later once we realized that actions bring consequences.

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, charlie2dogs said:

the world is pretty much full of walking dead people now, the real question is will who be one of the few that actually begins to live life consciously.  for the bigger part of men who function as the human identity only, its about women, picking em up, doing em and putting a notch in your bedpost, without any thought to what was created for you and them in this process and really for most men its just about getting a little pussy without any thought to what has been set in motion, however in this newage thinking, you are safe, its all about experiencing life, we can worry about the consequences later once we realized that actions bring consequences.

Yeah a lot of guys become myopic, and just soley focus on the WHAT rather than the WHY. But I think that experiencing life and not worrying about the consequences is a MUCH better option, then not experiencing life, so that you don't get any consequences at all.

Yes people are zombies now, but how can you blame them? As Alan Watts said, for you to improve, you need to improve youself, so someone who lacks the improvement you desire is tasked with improving that part of you. How can you improve? This is why sometimes I treat Leo as gospell, because I believe someone with more wisdom then me would have a better idea at knowing what is best for me, then I do.

For me personally, the only reason why I'm pursuing Pickup is because I don't want to be left behind in the sex game, and also because Leo basically told us in one of his videos for college students to pursue sexual endeavours, other than that I hate picking up chicks in the club, clubs are sleezy, unheigenic, alcohol lowers your awareness, your sleeping pattern gets screwed over. And then you have the issues of dealing with guys who get angry because they chick your after hes also after. For something people do every week, its not that enjoyable. But because I trust Leo's insights, I will continue to go clubbing purely for self improvement.

[Mal]

@electroBeam

Those guys are not even self actualising. They are twisting self actualisation to suit their agenda. 

Layer upon layer of conceptual b.s.

I don't expect everyone to see what is happening in that community, and everyone has to make their own mistakes, but these guys might be good at acting some persona that women in clubs find fun at the time and use to kill time with, but these guys are not actually good with women.  Not even Tyler can hold down a meaningful relationship.  He is one of the most dysfunctional people I've seen on the internet. 

Did you watch Leo's video about pickup?

I don't agree with everything that Leo says, but I agree with him about the pickup community.  It's complete nonsense.

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Mal

[electroBeam]

@Mal Absorbing and taking the whole thing in may be counter productive, of course I don't believe any principles or propositions made by the PUA community, but their techniques are very useful.

[Mal]

1 minute ago, electroBeam said:

@Mal Absorbing and taking the whole thing in may be counter productive, of course I don't believe any principles or propositions made by the PUA community, but their techniques are very useful.

Ok, use their techniques. See where it takes you in 10 years "techniquing" your way through interactions while real women watch you and laugh.

Or, you can spend time and energy learning to become yourself so that your natural abilities rise to the occasion when needed. 

Your choice.

[electroBeam]

@Mal "real women watch you and laugh", so the 'fake' women who I'm using my techniques on are cyborgs? 

It sounds so inspirational and benevolent to exclaim 'just be yourself' to attract women into your life

But unfortunately in the real world, sometimes who you truely are is someone whose nerdy, someone who is physically unattractive, boring(or just finds interests in things that the majority of women don't). You might feel majestic and self righteous in 'being yourself', but that's only because you haven't been rejected enough to realize that being yourself sometimes isn't enough.

We are all machines, really, every one of us, and while it seems a little robotic, we can all learn to appeal to people's natural instincts through learning PUA techniques.

 

Please tell me 1 person who didn't use PUA to get girls? Just one. There aren't many. Probably because it has a low chance of success. Even Leo used PUA techniques to get laid, and have a lasting relationship.

Edited July 14, 2016 by electroBeam

[Mal]

@electroBeam Wow, there has been twenty minutes lapsed between my posting Leo's video and you asking this question. 

His video is 90 minutes long. 

I'm no math expert, but this seems dodgy 

 

[electroBeam]

@Mal maybe ive already seen the video?

[Mal]

@electroBeam

Trying to understand this logically won't work. 

Taking my words about real women out of context is an indication of how undedicated you are to this work.

I recommend being yourself, not the self you think you are, but your real self. 

That's all decent women want.

That's all I'm saying on this subject.  Those who are genuinely interested will think about it.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Mal

[Mal]

5 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Mal maybe ive already seen the video?

If you have watched the video and still think pick up is worth it, then I assume you are at at an all time desperate low to fix your life. 

Picking up chicks in clubs is not the answer.  I've been there and it's bullshit.