Ego

[goodguy]

Are all thoughts from the ego?what about desire? Are desires from the ego? And negative emotions?

Let me explain: whenever I try to do emotionally difficult work, for example being conscious of myself for a long period (at first I like to do it but with time it gets hard and boring). So then thoughts arise, sometimes very subtle ones, saying that you should stop doing this work right now. Also desires arise of wanting to do something else than what Im doing, also sometimes very subtle. And negative emotions such as boredom arise and its really hard to keep doing the work. Are these the work of the ego?

Edited February 8, 2016 by goodguy

[goodguy]

2 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

Ego is the survival agenda of your mind. It's not just the self-concept and all the ornaments of identity, but the very mechanism by which the entire artifact is maintained. One way Jed McKenna puts it is "the intelligence of fear".

 

So I understood that the things I mentioned are the ego. So resistance to what is is the ego.

[Ramu]

Ego is not interested in the Now.  It is only interested in the Now for a means to an end.  If you have to remember something, remember this.  The True Self is the Witness of your thoughts and emotions.  When you identify with them that is ego.  When you realize that You are not your thoughts and emotions You become free.

[goodguy]

6 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

Ego is the survival agenda of your mind. It's not just the self-concept and all the ornaments of identity, but the very mechanism by which the entire artifact is maintained. One way Jed McKenna puts it is "the intelligence of fear".

 

So I understood that the things I mentioned are the ego. So resistance to what is is the ego? Why dont I hear anything from the ego when Im involved in fun stuff like watching a very good movie, its like were in a trance and theres no resistance. As soon as the movie ends, suffering begins, new desires arise, boredom arises etc.

[Ramu]

Resistance to surrender is ego.

[goodguy]

3 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

Sometimes there is no resistance simply because there is no challenge to the identity mechanism, the survival agenda. Finding distractions is a very big part of this mechanism. It's not going to tell you to stop doing that, unless of course there is something else troubling you that you give priority to. That's why profound and thorough and inescapable dissatisfaction is a key driver in this process. To borrow Jed McKenna's words again, the forces opposing eachother in this battle are hatred of false self versus fear of no self.

You mean you have to put yourself through dissatisfaction to progress on the path to enlightenment?

[Ramu]

Fear of NoSelf of course being the Ego.  Ones True Self is The Witness, I.e. Atman, or your Soul.

[Emerald]

I think that true inspirations probably come from a place deeper than the ego but the ego is the reason for most of our desires. So, when you get those urges telling you to get up and do something else or to stop meditating, you can be sure that they come straight from the ego. The ego doesn't like to be unraveled and it will manufacture thoughts which trigger emotions to derail your progress.

[jjer94]

1 hour ago, goodguy said:

Are all thoughts from the ego?what about desire? Are desires from the ego? And negative emotions?

Let me explain: whenever I try to do emotionally difficult work, for example being conscious of myself for a long period (at first I like to do it but with time it gets hard and boring). So then thoughts arise, sometimes very subtle ones, saying that you should stop doing this work right now. Also desires arise of wanting to do something else than what Im doing, also sometimes very subtle. And negative emotions such as boredom arise and its really hard to keep doing the work. Are these the work of the ego?

You need to re-examine your assumptions. You assume that there exists some ego that has control. What's actually there in your direct experience?

From my point of view, it's like you're asking whether Santa Clause has 8 or 10 reindeer, or will he give me a lump of coal for christmas, or will his elves accompany him on the sleigh...

Do you see? Santa Clause doesn't exist. Santa Clause and all the stories that come with him regarding reindeer, coal, and elves, are just stories. The same goes with ego. What's actually there are thought sensations that tell itself that there's an ego. 

It doesn't really matter that there are desires, or negative emotions, or boredom, that arises when you do your inquiry work. What does matter is that you're taking them so seriously, as if the stories they told you had any reality. Instead of trying to get rid of all of these apparently negative things, why don't you inquire about them? Why are they so negative? Why do I feel so moved to post on this forum about them? Am I expecting someone's words to solve my own problems so I don't have to do the work of examining these painful emotions myself? 

Stop running, my friend. Run towards. Let all of these emotions come up, look them in the eye, and learn to understand the illusory beliefs behind all of them. Then they won't bother you so much, you can let them be, and they will go away naturally on their own.

Edited February 8, 2016 by jjer94

[goodguy]

Thanks for the replies guys, youre helping alot

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

I never meditated much, and I don't do it at all these days. Unless you count plain observation as meditation, in which case I'm pretty much meditating all day every day. I learned my lessons from my forays into meditation, and then I moved on. No contest. If you can't be true to yourself, you can't be true to anything. I know what I want, and is nothing gonna stop me. If at any time it becomes clear to me that more meditation is required, bet your ass I'll do it. But, the way I see it at this point... not bloody likely.

Now I'm not trying to discourage anyone from meditating if that's what they feel they should be doing. If they do, then they absolutely should. Again, no contest. Be true to your own path. But if they don't feel they should be meditating, I'm going to be the one voice in the crowd of yay-sayers that says nay. You don't have to meditate if you're not called to do so.

And I'm going to assume they want to be as honest and discerning with themselves as they possibly can, with regards to whether it's just ego inhibiting them or whether they are following something deeper within. Which is something you'll have to learn on the path no matter how you play it.

Think for yourself, or not at all.

 

I understand your perspective, but I want to mention a few caveats. It seems to me that your perspective is that of 'don't resist what feels right to you.' This is a very important practice on one hand. However, paradoxically, it can also lend itself to a person's many self-deceptive tendencies and derail progress. For example, because realizing the illusory nature of the ego is emotionally uncomfortable, the mind can come up with lots of ways to justify not doing it. It will manufacture all sorts of thoughts and justifications. So, be mindful of what makes you want to stop meditating. If it's coming from urges during the practice to get up, be sure to stick it out. However, if it comes from a genuine desire toward something else, do that something else.

[goodguy]

3 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

I absolutely agree, and that's why self-honesty and discernment are critical, whether you meditate or not. And note that this is something VERY VERY different from what mind or ego says. Seeing is not the same as thinking, and intuition is not based in fear. You don't need to listen to your thoughts, you need to open your eyes and see what's right in your face.

The thing about meditation is that it's an attempt to brute force your way through delusion. Not impossible, but not likely, unless it's part of a broader effort, or just one leg of a longer journey. It's certainly far from the be-all end-all of enlightenment. Maybe that's the first assumption that requires questioning.

Ask youself, if wading through delusion requires such force, what is it that's pushing back? How about we investigate a little more deeply into it, and see if we can't address that force directly, instead of blindly knocking our heads against the wall. What we're up against is our own inauthenticity, and you can't break that with more inauthenticity. Just not gonna happen.

What are you doing. Why are you doing it. What do you want. No rote technique is going to magically answer those questions for you or rid you of those considerations altogether, except through suppression and denial.

If you don't know what the hell you're doing, how do you expect any of the results you're hoping for. If you don't even know what you're really up against, then what's the fucking point.

 

Can you give practical examples of how you 'battle' with the ego?

[Emerald]

4 minutes ago, Pinocchio said:

I absolutely agree, and that's why self-honesty and discernment are critical, whether you meditate or not. And note that this is something VERY VERY different from what mind or ego says. Seeing is not the same as thinking, and intuition is not based in fear. You don't need to listen to your thoughts, you need to open your eyes and see what's right in your face.

The thing about meditation is that it's an attempt to brute force your way through delusion. Not impossible, but not likely, unless it's part of a broader effort, or just one leg of a longer journey. It's certainly far from the be-all end-all of enlightenment. Maybe that's the first assumption that requires questioning.

Ask youself, if wading through delusion requires such force, what is it that's pushing back? How about we investigate a little more deeply into it, and see if we can't address that force directly, instead of blindly knocking our heads against the wall. What we're up against is our own inauthenticity, and you can't break that with more inauthenticity. Just not gonna happen.

What are you doing. Why are you doing it. What do you want. No rote technique is going to magically answer those questions for you or rid you of those considerations altogether, except through suppression and denial.

If you don't know what the hell you're doing, how do you expect any of the results you're hoping for. If you don't even know what you're really up against, then what's the fucking point.

 

 "Ask youself, if wading through delusion requires such force, what is it that's pushing back? How about we investigate a little more deeply into it, and see if we can't address that force directly, instead of blindly knocking our heads against the wall. What we're up against is our own inauthenticity, and you can't break that with more inauthenticity. Just not gonna happen."

This is great advice.  

[Galyna]

2 hours ago, goodguy said:

Are all thoughts from the ego?what about desire? Are desires from the ego? And negative emotions?

Let me explain: whenever I try to do emotionally difficult work, for example being conscious of myself for a long period (at first I like to do it but with time it gets hard and boring). So then thoughts arise, sometimes very subtle ones, saying that you should stop doing this work right now. Also desires arise of wanting to do something else than what Im doing, also sometimes very subtle. And negative emotions such as boredom arise and its really hard to keep doing the work. Are these the work of the ego?

You and Ego is the same. On the human level you can not exist without Ego. It is a basic mechanism for your survival. You are Ego! Unless you are Enlightened. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, jjer94 said:

It doesn't really matter that there are desires, or negative emotions, or boredom, that arises when you do your inquiry work. What does matter is that you're taking them so seriously, as if the stories they told you had any reality. Instead of trying to get rid of all of these apparently negative things, why don't you inquire about them? Why are they so negative? Why do I feel so moved to post on this forum about them? Am I expecting someone's words to solve my own problems so I don't have to do the work of examining these painful emotions myself? 

Yes, the key. Notice the "apparent" reality, i.e. what appears to be real - and then enquire into it.  How is it related to me? etc.

joy