Confusion about "appearance is reality".

[Galyna]

@Inliytened1 yes, that is easy. 

I wish I would imagine my dream and it will come true like this. 

[Nahm]

@Galyna Dreamboard!!! For the love of God!

?

[Galyna]

@Nahm I am almost done with one in my OneNote. I need to create a real one with glue, pictures and paper. I want to put my energy in it. I want to make it very pretty, and colorful. 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Galyna Dreamboard!!! For the love of God!

?

?❤

[Nahm]

Believe in yourself and that shit appears as reality! 

[Galyna]

@Nahm also I had finals this week, so next week is my break till summer semester ?

[Galyna]

@Nahm I promise 

[Nahm]

@Galyna ?

☺️

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Galyna said:

Read another thread about debunking solipsism, Leo gave a very good explanation there, hold on, let me find it for you.

"There are no others. Period. It's only you imagining stuff.

But awakening is far more radical than simple solipsism." - LG

Your reality is the only valid reality, please read this:

 

"There is nothing whatsoever outside your present moment. You are just still in denial about that. If you look very precisely and carefully you will notice that all other people have been your imagination 100% of the time. Even to deny what I'm saying you must imagine a Leo!

Notice that you are talking to yourself, not Leo.

Awakening is a radical thing. Keep deconstructing your reality." LG

So!!!! When you say that you have a very different reality from other people, do you realize that there is only one reality, right, and this reality is in your direct experience, it is yours!!!.

Now! The hardest part: there is no one or nothing to lean on, there can not be any backup, do you realize this? You are alone in this work. 

This is one way street, my dear.

Solipsism can't be proved or disproved. I remain sceptical about it. But notice how weak weak your argument is?  Just because I can't actually be sure if something exists outside of my perception doesn't mean it doesn't exist.. I gave the poisoned honey example already!  

Everything and every person Including Leo and you are inside my awareness but how do you jump into saying I'm imagining them?   I'm not imagining anything. The external world is forced upon my senses and it's out of my control for the most part.  Are "YOU" my imagination?  Am I talking to a real person with awareness now?  I just stopped "imagining you" right now. Did you just disappear? 

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Osaid said:

@Someone here Well, how do you separate consciousness? What does it even mean to separate consciousness? There is only the illusion of duality but in the end God cannot truly separate itself from itself. It all comes back to one consciousness.

Think of it as a dream. When you see a chair in a dream, you can extrapolate and say "oh the chair is made of wood that was cut down", but in reality you know that you simply imagined the chair out of nothing and that the only thing there is the appearance of the chair. That appearance of the chair is the only thing that exists in the dream. Sure, thinking of these ideas helps you to survive and predict what is happening in reality, but it is not the case that they exist in that moment. They only exist as you become aware of them.

 

 

 

That's true inside the dream. What makes you so sure this world is a dream? What is your evidence of that? I haven't seen such a consistent and long dream before! 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

That's true inside the dream. What makes you so sure this world is a dream? What is your evidence of that? I haven't seen such a consistent and long dream before! 

You're still stuck in the materialist paradigm.  

There is nothing wrong with that! You just have to do the practices.   You say you are doing them though and i believe you.  Therefore maybe it's not time for you to break out of the dream.  So go live.  When it happens it happens.  I will say this - you are on this forum and you are touching the outskirts of awakening - and awakening is a miracle.  Therefore you are so close.  But for me you are a projection of my mind.  How can i awaken someone that is me?   So it has to happen for you when you are ready!  

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You're still stuck in the materialist paradigm.  

There is nothing wrong with that! You just have to do the practices.   You say you are doing them though and i believe you.  Therefore maybe it's not time for you to break out of the dream.  So go live.  When it happens it happens.  I will say this - you are on this forum and you are touching the outskirts of awakening - and awakening is a miracle.  Therefore you are so close.  But for me you are a projection of my mind.  How can i awaken someone that is me?   So it has to happen for you when you are ready!  

I won't say I'm stuck in the materalist paradigm. I'm open to exploring any paradigm. As I said I'm interested in finding truth whatever it be. If I get convinced of something I'm going to admit it.  But I can't take somebody's word for it.. I use logic and common sense to evaluate information.  To be honest o don't believe there is such thing as awakening at all. Spirituality might be a psychological need for human beings and that's why the made religions and mysticism.  I might be wrong.  I'm discovering. The journey just began! 

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I won't say I'm stuck in the materalist paradigm. I'm open to exploring any paradigm. As I said I'm interested in finding truth whatever it be. If I get convinced of something I'm going to admit it.  But I can't take somebody's word for it.. I use logic and common sense to evaluate information.  To be honest o don't believe there is such thing as awakening at all. Spirituality might be a psychological need for human beings and that's why the made religions and mysticism.  I might be wrong.  I'm discovering. The journey just began! 

Heck yeah! I  was a materialist for 30 years.   Because i never questioned my culture.    Don't ever stop being open minded.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Heck yeah! I  was a materialist for 30 years.   Because i never questioned my culture.    Don't ever stop being open minded.

Part of the difference between science and spirituality (and really any other field of human knowledge) is that science has very clear definitions for terms. When a scientist says "oxygen atom" he means a very Clear and specific thing that all scientists agree upon.  In spirituality there is no clear definition of what "awakening" is  and various schools might disagree on what does it mean to be Awaken and what are the tools necessary for that.  Could you elaborate on that one please. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Someone here

[Galyna]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

I gave the poisoned honey example already!  

You know, once I read this book "The Labyrinth of Time" where Antony Peak makes actually a good claim. Let's take your honey example. So, the Peak says something like this: "We witness death all the time, but we have never been dead ourselves." This is so true. You really do not know and you can not know if you die from poison(or anything)  or not, simply because you've never been dead before. You do not really know what will happen with your subjective reality if you take a poison. Have this thought ever occurred to you? Have you ever thought that you came into this life in a magic way and you do not really know what will happen next. You do not remember how you came here, correct? You just took other people words for this. Poisoned honey example is also weak. If you would be dead and then reborn you could use it as your proof. But you are still alive and  we are just philosophizing about it. 

Because of this you can not trust others that much. I am not claiming anything. I am not enlightened. I am writing you my thoughts. It helps me, I do not trust others and story. I really want to verify it myself. 

Seat and contemplate the first time you became aware of the thought process in your mind, of others and reality. Start to connect the dots. You do not know how you came, you do not know how you go. Keep your mind open for any kind of possibility. You really do not know! 

Also! Another idea for you to ponder about. Do not ask others, if you do not know your own origin, you really do not know who others are. How can you trust them? I am the agent of your reality. I might be real or fake, you do not know. Just a possibility. 

P.S. When they say that you image reality, they mean that you do it unconsciously. 

 

[Consept]

@Someone here science works within a materialist paradigm but how we observe anything is through our consciousness, however science has no clue what consciousness even is.

Consciousness can't be observed because we are it, the mind exists within consciousness as we are able to witness our thoughts. So spirituality is looking at the thing that is observing the mind, there is no way to observe it other than experentially and the attachment to mind has to be dropped to experience it. 

Science feels satisfying because it can build a structure that the mind can understand, but how can all truth and understanding in the universe be contained in our human minds? Must be more right? 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Galyna said:

You know, once I read this book "The Labyrinth of Time" where Antony Peak makes actually a good claim. Let's take your honey example. So, the Peak says something like this: "We witness death all the time, but we have never been dead ourselves." This is so true. You really do not know and you can not know if you die from poison(or anything)  or not, simply because you've never been dead before. You do not really know what will happen with your subjective reality if you take a poison. Have this thought ever occurred to you? Have you ever thought that you came into this life in a magic way and you do not really know what will happen next. You do not remember how you came here, correct? You just took other people words for this. Poisoned honey example is also weak. If you would be dead and then reborn you could use it as your proof. But you are still alive and  we are just philosophizing about it. 

Because of this you can not trust others that much. I am not claiming anything. I am not enlightened. I am writing you my thoughts. It helps me, I do not trust others and story. I really want to verify it myself. 

Seat and contemplate the first time you became aware of the thought process in your mind, of others and reality. Start to connect the dots. You do not know how you came, you do not know how you go. Keep your mind open for any kind of possibility. You really do not know! 

Also! Another idea for you to ponder about. Do not ask others, if you do not know your own origin, you really do not know who others are. How can you trust them? I am the agent of your reality. I might be real or fake, you do not know. Just a possibility. 

P.S. When they say that you image reality, they mean that you do it unconsciously. 

 

It's actually very very simple.   I don't actually know whether You and Leo and everything else and the whole universe is real or imaginary in the sense it could be just like a dream or a simulation.. I admit that and I remain sceptical about that but they are real in the sense that they are undeniably  present in my direct experience and calling it " nothing" or "imaginary" or "unreal" won't change that fact in the tiniest bit!
We have to distinguish between these two perspectives.
Now someone comes to me  (like Leo through his videos) and says regarding the first perspective that the world is actually my imagination and I'm imagining him and everything else.. Well that's  interesting I'm looking for the proof of that or otherwise I won't believe it. So far Leo's proof is just "I took a psychedelic and I hallucinated a very deep trip".. Now seriously?

[Galyna]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

but they are real in the sense that they are undeniably  present in my direct experience and calling it " nothing" or "imaginary" or "unreal" won't change that fact in the tiniest bit!

1. Define real for me, please. What you call real?

 

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Now someone comes to me  (like Leo through his videos) and says regarding the first perspective that the world is actually my imagination and I'm imagining him and everything else.. Well that's  interesting I'm looking for the proof of that or otherwise I won't believe it.

2. When you write "I am looking for the proof", what do you mean exactly? Just talking on this forum, OR meditating, retreating, self-inquiring, contemplating? Can you please specify.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Consept said:

@Someone here science works within a materialist paradigm but how we observe anything is through our consciousness, however science has no clue what consciousness even is.

Consciousness can't be observed because we are it, the mind exists within consciousness as we are able to witness our thoughts. So spirituality is looking at the thing that is observing the mind, there is no way to observe it other than experentially and the attachment to mind has to be dropped to experience it. 

Science feels satisfying because it can build a structure that the mind can understand, but how can all truth and understanding in the universe be contained in our human minds? Must be more right? 

Well science is not totally clueless about what consciousness is . If you ask a scientist they will tell you it's generated by the brain.  There is centers for visions and centers for sight etc. If you play with certain neurons you will affect your perception significantly. If your blood  sugar gets too low notice how significantly affected your consciousness will become to the point you might lose it completely and fall on the ground.  This isn't conclusive and the studies are still being done. It's, a fascinating subject but I won't jump into mystical conclusions just because the phenomenon is in some ways beyond my understanding. That would be similar to the primitive people in the old ages when they couldn't explain stuff and they just thought "well God did it!" 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

20 minutes ago, Galyna said:

1. Define real for me, please. What you call real?

 

2. When you write "I am looking for the proof", what do you mean exactly? Just talking on this forum, OR meditating, retreating, self-inquiring, contemplating? Can you please specify.

1 I think I just defined it in the previous post. "undeniably present in my direct experience". Pick an apple and put in front of your face.. Call it "real" and here it is.. Call it" unreal " and here it is also!  That's what real is. 

2 there are  many types of proofs depending on the nature of the subject that we are trying to prove. There is mathematical proofs and logical proofs. There is experiential proofs through the senses and scientific proofs and historical proofs (if there is other kinds of proofs let me know).  I'm looking for any one of these proofs about the statement "the world is my imagination". 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Someone here