Confusion about "appearance is reality".

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, traveler said:

Because "we" are not real. There is an appearance of time, but there is no real time. Can you find time in your direct "experience"? Can you actually leave what IS to go to the past or future?

This is infinitely empty and infinitely full. It can not be understood. Everything is real and unreal, it just is what it is. 

What do you mean "we are not real". We are very real and having a conversation now. 

Also time is not a physical object. Time is the constant Flux of space and its content.  Space and time are  not distinct it's one field "the space-time" as Einstein describes it. 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You are not conscious that you're doing it.  As i said it takes an awakening.

You ARE me!

Its a mindfuck.

 

Are you "awake"? 

Are you conscious that you are imagining atoms?  If so can you unimagine them if you want? 

Also how can I achieve awakening?  Is there a guaranteed method? 

[traveler]

@Someone here 

Everything that appears is just appearances.

We are real and unreal. You over there talking to me over here, is a story. This is nothing appearing as person here talking to seperate person there. There is nothing right or wrong about that, it doesn't matter. There is just what is, you can never really leave home. You can put VR glasses on, but you are still home.

 

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Are you "awake"? 

I have become conscious of Absolute Truth via divine non-dual states of consciousness, if that's what the question means.  One facet is it feels like you have broken out of the dream that is reality.  It is a helluva thing.

Are you conscious that you are imagining atoms?  If so can you unimagine them if you want? 

I am aware that this is a dream.  If I'm not conscious of it directly it does not exist.   My imagination is constructing reality.  Right now though i am not in an omniscient state.

Also how can I achieve awakening?  Is there a guaranteed method? 

Start with meditation - self inquiry.  

 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, traveler said:

@Someone here 

Everything that appears is just appearances.

We are real and unreal. You over there talking to me over here, is a story. This is nothing appearing as person here talking to seperate person there. There is nothing right or wrong about that, it doesn't matter. There is just what is, you can never really leave home. You can put VR glasses on, but you are still home.

 

14 minutes ago, traveler said:

 

[Someone here]

 If The distinction between real and unreal is itself unreal why can't I imagine a unicorn and it just appears in front of me. What's the difference between a million dollars in your bank and you believing that you have a million dollars in your bank account when you don't? 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Someone here

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Well I don't agree that this "mind filter" and analysis and concepts are bad. 

I didn’t say that mind filters, analysis and concepts are “bad”. You created that (through a filter). Observe.

Mind filters, analysis and concepts have contextual value. Yet this can also be a contracted mind state. If you want to expand your understanding of what is real and imagined, analysis and concepts are just a portion of what is available. You can stay contracted within that portion if you like, or you can expand beyond it. . . Right now, your orientation and energetics are toward maintaining contraction through thought constructs and debate. The mind is filled with “yea but”, “evidence”, “then how come. . . “, “I disagree”, “right vs wrong” and on and on. This is a mindset that maintains contraction through the creation of opposites and conflict. This is a mind that desires narrative control. . . A mind that expands has space to explore. It is curious, fluid and holds ideas lightly.

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

@Inliytened1 in your previous post you implied that if I'm awken I'm gonna become conscious of how am I imagining atoms and molecules. If you are, awake can you unimagine the entire universe right now?  And if you can't or you aren't awake then how do you know that's true or possible? 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Someone here

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I didn’t say that mind filters, analysis and concepts are “bad”. You created that (through a filter). Observe.

Mind filters, analysis and concepts have contextual value. Yet this can also be a contracted mind state. If you want to expand your understanding of what is real and imagined, analysis and concepts are just a portion of what is available. You can stay contracted within that portion if you like, or you can expand beyond it. . . Right now, you orientation and energetics seems toward maintaining contraction through thought constructs and debate. The mind is filled with “yea but”, “evidence”, “then how come. . . “, “I disagree” and on and on. This is a mindset that maintains contraction through the creation of opposites and conflict. A mind that expands has space to explore. It is curious, fluid and holds ideas lightly.

These, spiritual ideas are interesting to me and I want to learn more. Yet they don't make perfect sense that's why  I'm asking questions. I'm using logic and arguing because that's the only tool to have philosophical or intellectual conversation. 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Inliytened1 in your previous post you implied that if I'm awken I'm gonna become conscious of how am I imagining atoms and molecules. If you are, awake can you unimagine the entire universe right now?  And if you can't or you aren't awake then how do you that's true or possible? 

Give the rationalizing a break for a bit and try the spiritual practices if you wish.   The teachings can't take you there.  Mysticsm is required to transcend logic and to grasp this through Being.

[traveler]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The distinction between real and unreal is itself unreal why can't I imagine a unicorn and it just appears in front of me. What's the between a million dollars in your bank and you believing that you have a million dollars in your bank account when you don't? 

Only an "ego" wants this to be different than it is. It wants this to fill it's own personal needs, it wants reality to change on its terms. The screen is identifying with the character in the game, now it knows good and bad, right and wrong, real and unreal. The character in the game can not see the total mystery of itself and the things around it, it can only see a world that it knows. From this perspective unicorns are very mysterious, way more mysterious than the reality the character already knows to be real.

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Give the rationalizing a break for a bit and try the spiritual practices if you wish.   The teachings can't take you there.  Mysticsm is required to transcend logic and to grasp this through Being.

I'm already trying some spiritual practice. They are not giving so much results but I'm determined. 

Can you please answer my question! 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, traveler said:

Only an "ego" wants this to be different than it is. It wants this to fill it's own personal needs, it wants reality to change on its terms. The screen is identifying with the character in the game, now it knows good and bad, right and wrong, real and unreal. The character in the game can not see the total mystery of itself and the things around it, it can only see a world that it knows. From this perspective unicorns are very mysterious, way more mysterious than the reality the character already knows to be real.

The fact that my "ego" wants to be able to imagine a million dollars into existence but it can't goes to prove the difference between real and imaginary (unreal) not the opposite.! 

[Forestluv]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

These, spiritual ideas are interesting to me and I want to learn more. Yet they don't make perfect sense that's why  I'm asking questions. I'm using logic and arguing because that's the only tool to have philosophical or intellectual conversation. 

This is the lock and key right here. . . . To me, this sounds genuine. Notice the feeling of this orientation. Cultivate the curiosity to explore. Also notice the feeling of contraction. The feeling of “yea buts. . . “ and the desire for mental narrative control. Leo gives several great exercises in his recent Open-mindedness video. 

If you want to expand. . .curiosity, letting go, openness and observation will need to win out over the desire for security and maintenance of pre-conceived belief structures. 

You are asking questions that involve both material and immaterial. If your mind stays within a material realm and logic, it will be limited. One doesn’t need to reject material and logic, however this will not shed light on immaterial and post-logic.

I’m a trained scientist and can relate to being immersed within an objective, external reality. One thing that helped me was relaxing the mind, allowing space and observing. As well, setting can be important. This can allow for realizations to appear in direct experience. For example, I spent time practicing lucid dreaming, both while asleep and awake. This led to an exploration of what is real and imagined. This exploration, included thoughts and concepts - yet much more. 

Another way to look at it. Imagine wanting to explore languages, yet then asking that everyone only communicate in English. This may have some practical value, yet it is very limited. 

For example: below is a contracted mindset to protect the security of an underlying belief system. It is not a mindset that is exploring new territory with curiosity and desire to expand. This orientation would be more like “How can I better engage within the interface of what my mind believes is real and imagined? How can I go prior to my thought stories of what is real and imagined?”

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The fact that my "ego" wants to be able to imagine a million dollars into existence but it can't goes to prove the difference between real and imaginary (unreal) not the opposite.! 

[traveler]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The fact that my "ego" wants to be able to imagine a million dollars into existence but it can't goes to prove the difference between real and imaginary (unreal) not the opposite.! 

There is only difference between real and unreal from an imaginary position.

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This is the lock and key right here. . . . To me, this sounds genuine. Notice the feeling of this orientation. Cultivate the curiosity to explore. Also notice the feeling of contraction. The feeling of “yea buts. . . “ and the desire for narrative control. Leo gives several great exercises in his recent Open-mindedness video.

You are asking questions that involve both material and immaterial. If your mind stays within a material realm and logic, it will be limited. One doesn’t need to reject material and logic, however this will not shed light on immaterial and post-logic.

I’m a trained scientist and can relate to being immersed within an objective, external reality. One thing that helped me was relaxing the mind, allowing space and observing. As well, setting can be important. This can allow for realizations to appear in direct experience. For example, I spent time practicing lucid dreaming, both while asleep and awake. This led to an exploration of what is real and imagined. This exploration, included thoughts and concepts - yet much more. 

Another way to look at it. Imagine wanting to explore languages, yet then asking that everyone only communicate in English. This may have some practical value, yet it is very limited. 

I asked if there is methods to go beyond logic and grasp the same ideas and they said try psychedelics. I can't try it to be honest because it's not available where I live. And also from hearing other people's stories with it I can see it's just a hallucinating drug. It gives temporary experiences of mystical stuff and then you go back to normal reality. I don't see why should a temporary drug experience be credited for any valid information about reality. It just goes to show that the brain can hallucinate stuff but that doesn't necessarily mean that "everything is a hallucination" as Leo suggests because it's clearly isn't.

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, traveler said:

There is only difference between real and unreal from an imaginary position.

Well I wish this is true so I can manfiest all my desires right now.. I tried it but it didn't work. 

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I asked if there is methods to go beyond logic and grasp the same ideas and they said try psychedelics. I can't try it to be honest because it's not available where I live.

Fine, then try other methods. The key here is whether there is genuine curiosity to explore and expand. With that orientation, you will be open, allow space and a way will arise. Yet if your orientation is to protect a pre-conceived belief structure, you will be chained down and will not be able to venture and explore.

Notice here:

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And also from hearing other people's stories with it I can see it's just a hallucinating drug. It gives temporary experiences of mystical stuff and then you go back to normal reality. I don't see why should a temporary drug experience be credited for any valid information about reality. It just goes to show that the brain can hallucinate stuff but that doesn't necessarily mean that "everything is a hallucination" as Leo suggests because it's clearly isn't.

This is a limiting belief structure. It is a burden and chaining you down. To expand, either let go of the limiting beliefs and try something else or take a meta view of the belief structure. Staying immersed within beliefs will limit your mind to those beliefs. 

The question comes down to whether you genuinely desire to expand in this area. From my POV, you have a moderate amount of desire, yet it is not strong enough to break the chains that bind you. 

You will not be able to explore the forest if you sit chained to fence in the parking lot.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Fine, then try other methods. The key here is whether there is genuine curiosity to explore and expand. With that orientation, you will be open, allow space and a way will arise. Yet if your orientation is to protect a pre-conceived belief structure, you will be chained down and will not be able to venture and explore.

Notice here:

This is a limiting belief structure. It is a burden and chaining you down. To expand, either let go of the limiting beliefs and try something else or take a meta view of the belief structure. Staying immersed within beliefs will limit your mind to those beliefs. 

The question comes down to whether you genuinely desire to expand in this area. From my POV, you have a moderate amount of desire, yet it is not strong enough to break the chains that bind you. 

You will not be able to explore the forest if you sit chained to fence in the parking lot.

Can you point to me which one is the limiting  belief that I need to work with? Also are limiting beliefs necessarily false or bad? 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Someone here

[traveler]

38 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well I wish this is true so I can manfiest all my desires right now.. I tried it but it didn't work. 

"you" the apparent person who is writing this IS the imaginary position. The imaginary position is real and unreal, but for the imaginary position it is only real. If it is only real, there is an opposite to it: unreal. This is where the world of knowing springs into being.

Edited May 8, 2020 by traveler