A question about self inquiry

[Hugo Oliveira]

When you do self-inquiry you can recognize the witnessing awareness. Them you focus on it (or just be it) during a meditation session.

What is the difference between this simple recognition and the so-called "AHA MOMENT" when people break free from ego identification? 

This practice leads you to a gradual awareness of yourself as awareness or there is some flip point in this process?


Thank you!

[Nahm]

The difference is (a pointing) thought & realization, awakening. But ‘no thought will do’ in self inquiry, so don’t attempt to realize anything, or awaken. That would only be more thoughts. Recognizing the witnessing awareness is not possible, nor is focusing on it, or being it. No arising thought can ever answer the inquiry. 

It is “the ego” which arose as the thought, which is the question about other people, breaking free from ego, and an ah ha moment. Part of self inquiry is discovery the ‘level’ of sneakery in thought. Awareness of yourself as awareness, and a flip point, are also just arising thought. 

[Preetom]

@Hugo Oliveira

Firmly establish yourself in that content less first person awareness. The rest will be taken care of.

 

[Wisebaxter]

@Nahm That's where I always get tripped up, thinking I've got it because I've figured it out intellectually. Then I realise I'm just stuck in another idea

6 hours ago, Preetom said:

Firmly establish yourself in that content less first person awareness. The rest will be taken care of.

@Preetom So you mean it's about getting rid of the 'I thought' as Ramana Maharshi called it? That seems right to me. I still have an innate sense that there is something there called 'me.' 

[James123]

19 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

That's where I always get tripped up, thinking I've got it because I've figured it out intellectually. Then I realise I'm just stuck in another idea

6 hours ago, Preetom said:

Dont try to find something. It will inevitably make you think or make yo go to lala lands with your thoughts during the meditation You are already it. Stay still and dont add anything. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by James123

[Wisebaxter]

20 minutes ago, James123 said:

Dont try to find something. It will inevitably make you think or make yo go to lala lands with your thoughts during the meditation You are already it. Stay still and dont add anything. 

Thanks  So you're saying, just focus on the sense of 'I am,' with no other thoughts present. Is it ok to have that question 'what is that?' keep coming up, if it helps? Maybe it helps you keep focus. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Wisebaxter

[James123]

8 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

So you're saying, just focus on the sense of 'I am,' with no other thoughts present. Is it ok to have that question 'what is that?' keep coming up, if it helps? Maybe it helps you keep focus. 

Just be, dont do. When you sleep you let go, do same thing while you sitting. If you want to ask any question To yourself, my suggestion to you is check your body where are you, if you severely your body parts you cant recognize yourself that mean is you are not in the body, brain is just brain. You are not in the brain or body. You are the thing that is aware of the body. So just be aware of the body. In darkness and silence.

Or just focus before the meditation, you have never learned something in your life since you born. And after sit.

Edited May 8, 2020 by James123

[Wisebaxter]

@James123 That's awesome dude, and very helpful, thank you. So being aware of the body grounds you in your present moment experience. And you just remain as that thing which is aware, not the object itself. If something enters my awareness, like a thought, i.e an object, I can get lost in it. Then I have a sensation of 'remembering I'm supposed to be doing something. This encourages the idea of a separate me almost, that's 'doing something.' Should I just let that sensation and thought go and just 'be' again? 

@Hugo Oliveira Like you i'm curious about what eventually flip-flops. Seems like it can't be explained with words though and if we're thinking about it or try to 'know' what it's like we're missing it somehow. I may stick to psychedelics haha. I'm wondering right now if they're the best tool like Leo says. I did just start a thread asking that

Edited May 8, 2020 by Wisebaxter

[James123]

39 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

Should I just let that sensation and thought go and just 'be' again? 

Getting lost in thoughts is breaking point. Just be aware of the thought And watch it. Dont get in, just watch it how is it happening? And you will see nothing is there. Just a sound that you put meaning of it, and sound that has no appearance. So how can it be exist? 

Edited May 8, 2020 by James123

[Wisebaxter]

7 minutes ago, James123 said:

Getting lost in thoughts is breaking point. Just be aware of the thought And watch it. Dont get in, just watch it how is it happening? And you will see nothing is there. Just a sound that you put meaning of it, and sound that has no appearance. So how can it be exist? 

Ah this is the key then, remaining conscious when you have the thought. I can't really do that. I become the thought straight away. I guess more meditation is needed, where I focus on watching my thoughts come and go..

[James123]

10 minutes ago, Wisebaxter said:

Ah this is the key then, remaining conscious when you have the thought. I can't really do that. I become the thought straight away. I guess more meditation is needed, where I focus on watching my thoughts come and go..

Thats why it is called awareness, even thoughts are happening you have to aware of it and detached from it. When you think, you are being attached to thoughts. Thats what i do even during the day, lets body talk or do whatever it is suppose to and just watch it. Feel the feelings through the body. But of course ego is so strong comes and takes control over so easy.

Edited May 8, 2020 by James123

[mandyjw]

On 5/6/2020 at 8:02 PM, Nahm said:

The difference is (a pointing) thought & realization, awakening. But ‘no thought will do’ in self inquiry, so don’t attempt to realize anything, or awaken. That would only be more thoughts. Recognizing the witnessing awareness is not possible, nor is focusing on it, or being it. No arising thought can ever answer the inquiry. 

It is “the ego” which arose as the thought, which is the question about other people, breaking free from ego, and an ah ha moment. Part of self inquiry is discovery the ‘level’ of sneakery in thought. Awareness of yourself as awareness, and a flip point, are also just arising thought. 

A thought is a thought! OH MY GOD, a thought is a thought! 

[Nahm]

...And since thought labels thought thought, of course then, there isn’t. 

[zeroISinfinity]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

A thought is a thought! OH MY GOD, a thought is a thought! 

Relax, breathe. Don't freak out. 

Hands off of my best man too will protect him at all cost. Now actual example of sneakiness of tought. Serves me so well. 

Here where I live there is a custom. You can't refuse invitation to be best man. You have to accept. 

From best man is expected to bring most valuable/monetary gift for new married couple. 

Heck sure I will give you 50 euros (you cheap bastard) donatiin but oh boyo you will buy me new car. ☺️

[mandyjw]

37 minutes ago, Nahm said:

...And since thought labels thought thought, of course then, there isn’t. 

It's such a relief it's too easy, it almost feels like cheating. 

@zeroISinfinity

[Preetom]

13 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

@Nahm 

@Preetom So you mean it's about getting rid of the 'I thought' as Ramana Maharshi called it? That seems right to me. I still have an innate sense that there is something there called 'me.' 

I AM is always gonna be there. You can't get rid of the I thought. Currently you take yourself as the I thought and thus you ARE and feel yourself as the I thought. That I thought cannot get rid of itself.

Instead, ignore all conceptions and perceptions and try to firmly focus on the I. Hold that one I thought while letting go of all else, thoughts about getting it vs not getting it, easy vs hard, progress vs demotion etc.

Its not really that the I thought gets eliminated. Rather, in the laser like concentration on the I, a certain misconception and ignorance about the I burns away once and for all and the I is realized as what it really is, what it always has been.

Good luck 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Preetom