For How Long Can You Hold The Void Or No-mind?

[Salaam]

The Void, No Mind, Direct experience, pure focus or trance without thought...

Whatever you want to call it, how long can you hold it?

Can you do it outside of meditation practice in normal life with demands of attention and pressure?

What can you do or do you do while in the void?

Can you transition in and out of it with conscious directed thought, when you want to mentally organize yourself?

Please base your response on actual firsthand experience only, not what you think can or can't be done. Nor what you've read or heard from others.

 

 

 

[Flicker_boy]

well, its outside of time (and space) ins't it
anyway, only once i got a taste and i interpreted it as like 3 seconds, but if i have to be honest about it there was no time 'there', there was no change

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Lorenzo Engel

[Mal]

@Salaam

The only thing that has to hold it is the character in the dream. 

The real part of the being IS the void. When the fictitious character apparently evaporates, thats when the body relaxes and we get the benefits. 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Mal

[Salaam]

8 minutes ago, Mal said:

@Salaam

The only thing that has to hold it is the character in the dream. 

The real part of the being IS the void. When the fictitious character apparently evaporates, thats when the body relaxes and we get the benefits. 

 

 

Let's try to restrain ourselves from talking about various beliefs of what it "is". 

Report duration, capability, sensitivity, resiliency, sensation, physical change...

[Salaam]

19 minutes ago, Lorenzo Engel said:

well, its outside of time (and space) ins't it
anyway, only once i got a taste and i interpreted it as like 3 seconds, but if i have to be honest about it there was no time 'there'

 

Thanks man, I appreciate it. 

Yea, I wasn't expecting people to be considering time while immersed, more a general estimation upon reflection ?

[Mal]

6 minutes ago, Salaam said:

Let's try to restrain ourselves from talking about various beliefs of what it "is". 

You are the belief attempting to talk about accessing something you will never know. 

 

 

[Salaam]

1 hour ago, Mal said:

You are the belief attempting to talk about accessing something you will never know. 

 

 

Lol, any actual experiences you wanna share?

[Mal]

@Salaam Im continually sharing my experiences on here daily. 

[Salaam]

So I guess I'll share an experience I had yesterday and the day before... maybe it'll get the ball rolling or whatever.

Where I am now in life, I feel what some may call the void at all times in parallel with normal emotions and feelings (I've been working everyday at this for over 6 years). It feels like a thickness in the air, like an electron cloud or something, that can get so thick and so dense I can't even close my hand around it. Having this feeling at all times, compounds and changes the types of things I feel and experience, because what we feel depends upon how all the moving parts contrast within an experience.

In other words, because I have this extra set of feelings in parallel with emotion, different things attach and happen to me, then before when I only had singular human emotions.

So the day before yesterday, this flavor attached to me that caused me tremendous pain and blocked me from being able to interact and emote with others without shards of even more pain and anger assaulting me. I endured for like 6 hours straight before being able to insert my will at it's attachment point and create a space between it and me, so my normal emotions could "breathe".

Then yesterday, while at home I felt that pain start to come back and I clenched my fists and noticed that clenching my fists brought that cloud to pool into my hands and the pain faded. I realized then, that I had fused with this energy and it wasn't maliciously hurting me or anything. What was happening was that I was unwittingly letting all that energy pool and build up in my head, basically super-heating my brain with activity, pressure, and heat, and smothering my other feelings from having a chance to express.

So after that realization, I started moving it all over my body and I noticed that whenever I would think that cloud would move into my head, partially if other parts of my body were involved with my focus through expression, or totally in my head causing me pain if I went too deep in thought. So I then spent the rest of the night only thinking in spurts and keeping the majority of the cloud energy contained below my neck. Tracking and observing my activity levels around my body, based on the contrast of this shifting cloud inside me.

It's pretty cool, because it allows me to play my body like a violin. Moving this way with the cloud brings about certain feelings, another way brings about relaxation, another way triumph, euphoria, pleasant happiness, etc.. I should be able to map my emotive landscape just by moving around and feeling out different positions. But really, I'm just super glad that it's under my control now, because I hate not being able to express how I want or enjoy the beautiful things in my life, because of things fusing with me in stressful ways.

I'm working with it now as I type, as soon as I woke up I was immediately working with it. Which actually helps with the cortisol and stress that occurs upon waking quite a bit. It's super nice, being able to balance the energetic activity loads or whatever that go on inside me, plus being able to position myself like a musical instrument for feelings and realities, rather than just "thinking" or whatever.  

I'll most likely spend the next couple days working with it and learning as I go. Should be fun.

[AleksM]

22 hours ago, Salaam said:

The Void, No Mind, Direct experience, pure focus or trance without thought...

Whatever you want to call it, how long can you hold it?

Can you do it outside of meditation practice in normal life with demands of attention and pressure?

What can you do or do you do while in the void?

Can you transition in and out of it with conscious directed thought, when you want to mentally organize yourself?

Please base your response on actual firsthand experience only, not what you think can or can't be done. Nor what you've read or heard from others.

 

 

 

 

For me It's impossible to go back to old patterns of thinking.  I have to force myself to think but to answer your question, yes it's possible for me to transition out of this state to mentally organize myself.  No-mind is my natural state, I can hold it for ever, regardless if i meditate that day or not but it takes time to get to this stage. I have practiced meditation every day at the beginning, but this is just a small portion to be on the no-mind stage . You need to have an intention to raise your awareness level, to be aware every second of every day, uninterruptedly, this is where the magic begins. The meditation habit will however jump start this process. 

I can do what ever I want without much emotional resistance or emotional changes. 

[charlie2dogs]

On 7/7/2016 at 7:16 PM, Salaam said:

The Void, No Mind, Direct experience, pure focus or trance without thought...

Whatever you want to call it, how long can you hold it?

Can you do it outside of meditation practice in normal life with demands of attention and pressure?

What can you do or do you do while in the void?

Can you transition in and out of it with conscious directed thought, when you want to mentally organize yourself?

Please base your response on actual firsthand experience only, not what you think can or can't be done. Nor what you've read or heard from others.

 

 

 

you said: The Void, No Mind, Direct experience, pure focus or trance without thought...Whatever you want to call it, how long can you hold it?

there is no such thing as no mind and no such thing as stilling the mind of no thought, the void, pure focus, or trance, that is just newage terminology. the human identity has moments of oneness with the true self over time, many mistake that for some major accomplishment, but actually most never understand it when it happens and is soon forgotten as far as any change resulting from it.  the consciousness of humans have so much nonsense rooted in it, it is impossible to still the mind.

you said: Can you do it outside of meditation practice in normal life with demands of attention and pressure? 

meditation was meant for human beings in the hope they might connect with the real part of themselves and become that.  if you can experience it in meditation, you will experience it everywhere,  all the time, most are just not having a real experience.

you said: What can you do or do you do while in the void?,

there is no void, if one should become self realized you live life, as something other than a human identity, and from a place of reality,

you said: Can you transition in and out of it with conscious directed thought, when you want to mentally organize yourself?

the transition from human being to a being of consciousness isn't something you pick and choose when you want it for whatever purpose, it is something you become, it is a way of life, why would anyone want to leave a state of being that was giving them peace, joy, and liberation to play the human identity again for what.

Edited July 9, 2016 by charlie2dogs

[Shanmugam]

@AleksM  It is interesting... Do you mean all thoughts have stopped or only self-referential thoughts? How is your emotional state when you are in no-mind state?

Just the other day, someone in the forum was saying that no-mind state was a fantasy... I used to wonder if such a possibility of being in no mind for ever exists.. Tell me more about it

 

[Ayla]

On 7/8/2016 at 2:16 AM, Salaam said:

Whatever you want to call it, how long can you hold it?

Just about as long as you can hold a pitbull. The emphasis here is not on the mind but, as always, on the holder. A construct holding another construct. it can be done, of course, through sheer determination. and for a limited amount of time. 

The KEY though, is the understanding that there is no holding possible. 

Who would hold what? Which is what? 

 

 

[AleksM]

@Shanmugam All thoughts have stopped but it's not like I can't think anymore, I just have to force myself to hear mental sounds(thoughts). I can think whenever I want to think otherwise I abide in this awarness of no-mind all of the time. Sometimes thoughts appear without me consciously wanting them, but when they do I can stop them by not asigning them any meaning, not paying attention to them and then they disapear into nothingness pretty quickly. BTW. I am sure that I'm enlightened.

Emotions stills arise when I am in this awarness without thoughts, sometimes they are very painful but overall I don't suffer from them because I don't identify with them and by being in this awarness they lose all the power(the power for suffering). Negative emotions are just a constructed meaning an interpretation, positive and negative are constructed meanings from the mind  and I can let go of that meaning now, emotions just are, existentialy they don't have an asigned meaning to them. I can be happy NOW, I don't have to wait to be happy, I don't need a thing to be happy. I don't need people, situations, things, achievements, thoughts, emotional stimulations, interpretations, good and bad, a position, meaning, control, approval, past or future, comparing, gossip, seriousness, a purpose, communication, inspiration or insight to be happy. I can be happy even if my body feels like shit. I am detached from all of that. Emotional hights are not times when I am happiest. I am happiest when I have piece of mind. This is pure bliss to me. Don't ask yourself if the cup is half full or half empty, just realize there is no cup.

The mind state is a fantasy. You maintain it with illusions. Illusion of meaning (existentially there is no meaning), identification (existentialy you can't identify yourself as a thing), control  (there is no free wil), with comparing yourself with others (that makes sense only to egos), with attachment, judgement, gossip, seriousness, proudness, with a sense of you (the big You - consciousness can not be perceived with senses).

[Shanmugam]

@AleksM Very good and interesting explanation.. Who was your teacher? How did it all start  and how did the seeking end?

[Adam M]

@Salaam bro its a void...there's nothing there...good luck trying to grasp it at will

[Nahm]

On 7/7/2016 at 7:16 PM, Salaam said:

The Void, No Mind, Direct experience, pure focus or trance without thought...

Whatever you want to call it, how long can you hold it?

Can you do it outside of meditation practice in normal life with demands of attention and pressure?

What can you do or do you do while in the void?

Can you transition in and out of it with conscious directed thought, when you want to mentally organize yourself?

Please base your response on actual firsthand experience only, not what you think can or can't be done. Nor what you've read or heard from others.

 

 

 

I am in non thinking all the time. I had epiphanies for years, then revelations for years, then an explosion around 5 years ago. That pop never went away. The newness did, but not the difference. All other facets of me and my life adjusted to it. That took a while. I would describe my current thinking as engaging a thinking mechanism both effortlessly & purposefully. Engaging it is noticeable, whereas before, even after letting monkey mind go, it was closer or instantly assessable. Now it takes a second or two and I notice the inclusion of thinking in my awareness. The non thinking is still present and the thinking mechanism is within it. Like a lone type writer in a large room. For a long time I was reactional, then had the impulses but did not express reactions, now I don't have the impulses.  I also notice there is hardly any physical head / brain sensation. No stress reactions at all. When something "goes wrong", I know it's just part of something bigger going "right", and I'm happy to see that. There doesn't seem to be any "demands of attention and pressure". I love what I love to do, what I like to do, what I want to do, what I should do, what I need to do.  They're all worthwhile, just short to longer term growth in them. I have practiced daily meditation for 23 years. Self inquiry for about 27 yrs. Deep contemplation only in recent years. This has enhanced every facet of my life and everything I do I can do better than before and with much ease. Work wise, I have experienced myself 'rubbing off' or influencing others to the degree I have delegated all of what I used to think only I could do.  I would not describe this as in a void. It's quite opposite to me. Everything seems slower, richer, more agreeable, and as if time were not a factor, I appreciate more and have more fun. Asking if you can go in & out of "it" is like asking a 20 year old if he can be 8 again. It just doesn't work that way, but there is the memory as a relative point of reference, but all of my memories are visually distant & fuzzy, but at the same time they are more emotionally present. It's hard to give first hand experience because all facets of my life and inner work are in harmony and at peace with my current trajectory and growth. There's always an infinite amount more to learn and experience. That is thrilling to me. Btw, I know the average age here is much younger than me. So if anyone is reading this and on the fence about diving in to PD, Leo's LP course, and all things PD...do it. Start now. I see a lot of pain in people my age who didn't. That's pretty much everyone I know.  If you don't get started now, a day is going to come that you're going to be older and see it in someone who did. And it's going to be very, very hard to bear. I see that very often,  whatever people use as their excuse not to do PD; work, family, etc - they will deeply resent that person or people later in life, because they just don't know better.                       Like all things worthwhile - START YOUNG!

 

[pluto]

I don't think it makes a difference as 1 second of infinity is the same as 10 minutes of infinity. Ultimately = Infinity

[SOUL]

The void is non existence, it's only feature it has is the absence of everything so we cannot have it, hold it, feel it, be it, see it, visit it or anything with it because it is non existent. The only thing we can do is be aware of the absolute nature of non existence and contemplate the implications of that in our consciousness.

Thoughts are naturally occurring involuntary mechanisms that are integral to the survival of us as a biological organism. Stopping our thoughts is like trying to stop the heart beating or the lungs from breathing, it's an impossibility.

Although through our awareness using meditative methods we can slow the breathing and heart rate so in the same way we can slow the thoughts. Not only in the pace and frequency of them but we can cultivate the intensity, subject matter and context of them as well as how attached we are and identified with them we are.

Preaching no thoughts in the void though makes for seductive esoteric and mystical framed rhetoric.

 

Edited July 7, 2017 by SOUL

[Nahm]

11 hours ago, SOUL said:

The void is non existence, it's only feature it has is the absence of everything so we cannot have it, hold it, feel it, be it, see it, visit it or anything with it because it is non existent. The only thing we can do is be aware of it's absolute nature of non existence and contemplate the implications of that in our consciousness.

Thoughts are naturally occurring involuntary mechanisms that are integral to the survival of us as a biological organism. Stopping our thoughts is like trying to stop the heart beating or the lungs from breathing, it's an impossibility.

Although through our awareness using meditative methods we can slow the breathing and heart rate so in the same way we can slow the thoughts. Not only in the pace and frequency of them but we can cultivate the intensity, subject matter and context of them as well as how attached we are and identified with them we are.

Preaching no thoughts in the void though makes for seductive esoteric and mystical framed rhetoric.

 

“Meditation simply means a state of no-thought, awareness without the process of thought, just pure, mirror-like awareness, with no thoughts passing in the mind.”

— Rajneesh

It's worth looking into. Do some research  on EEG's recording Delta waves of meditators, zazen, etc. If your interested.