Very Powerful Guiding Words For Anyone Suffering From Depersonalization/Derealization

[Erick]

I want to post a reply to a question that was asked on a DP/DR forum years ago, I cannot remember the question exactly, but it was probably something along the lines of: “How can I cure DP/DR?”

I’m not the one who wrote this reply, but it truly inspired and motivated me and was one of the main reasons that I became interested in spirituality and awakening while I was still trying to fathom what had happened to me after I had my first depersonalization episode aka very deep and intense unpleasant glimpse of Truth, the person who wrote this seems to really grasp what they're talking about.

Here's the reply:

 

“I have heard that buddhists actually strive for the depersonalized derealized state of mind. They see it as some sort of intermediary state towards enlightenment. 

 

I can see it the same way, but the people who get dp/dr aren't usually aware of this, they got to be that way in one way or another but not by using the steps the buddha shows and so they are completely bewildered by the experience as it is one that they did not strive for consciously and is in stark contrast to the reality that they have been brought up and conditioned to believe. This is the battle that most dp/dr sufferers are fighting. They want to go back to the way things were before dp/dr but it is not wise to want to go back to the beginning as it will only lead you back where you started, to the beginning of the tunnel. In the midst of the darkness of the mind tunnel, we are surrounded by all kinds of illusions that blind us and hold us back from ever breaking through our mind’s darkness. The fear inside of us keeps us and we become trapped in the endless darkness of our mind's insecurity, governed by our own illusioned thoughts, emotions, behaviors, closed in views, etc. That we hold onto to preserve the existence we know through the ego identity we have developed in this period of time and within the confines of our social structure.

 

We must seek the awareness that leads us through the tunnel, the selfless awareness, compassion, understanding of existence and we must find something to believe in other than our selfish egotistical existence of self and its own self preserving ways. You must go through the tunnel of darkness and come out through the other side to find the light of truth of being inside. Each mental tunnel is unique to the person and synonymous with his/her own judgements outward/inward reflecting illusions back and forth to preserve continuation of the ego and its desires for fulfillment that blind us from gaining glimpses of the ultimate reality of life.

 

Have you ever gone through a dark tunnel ? For example when I was a young kid, I would find myself roaming through a sewer wash where there was no light just trash, darkness, graffiti, and no visible outcome of what was to be, there was only a tunnel of darkness ahead. During the encounter with the tunnel you are uncertain, insecure, fearful and all these question marks in your mind keep you from stepping forward into the uncertainty of the dark tunnel. There you contemplate if you should go through to see what becomes of it or stand before it in wonder of what could be. You either succumb to the perils of the mind or you overcome the fear in search of a greater answer. The mental fear within the self arises from the perception of the unknown darkness of the tunnel of what the tunnel may bring which reflects only the unknown darkness within our own mind. You come to either fight these uncertain contemplations of existence or you stay in the boundary limit of "self" preserving state of mind. If you take the steps forward through the tunnel of darkness with each step into darkness comes more uncertainty, further distancing yourself from your previous place of comfort of not knowing and moving onto the answer of knowing. So as I step through, I become selfless, distancing myself from the illusions of the mind and moving forward with the power of the wonder of what is to be. A trip through a dark tunnel of unknown outcome is in itself a trip that defies the rules of the self governed mind. The darkness is blinding but the question is still there as I hold on to the faith of wonder and what is to become of the tunnel, halfway through the tunnel you are caught in between 2 self made realities, the reality of a previous self and the reality of a new self. When you decide to keep moving into the new self you take with you the self made reality of the previous self and until you reach the light at the end of the tunnel, you cannot begin to reflect on the judgments of that previous self. So When your eyes finally reach the end of the tunnel and the light at the end of the tunnel reaches your eyes, you are given a new meaning, an answer to the fears that blinded you. A refreshing vision of the world on the other side of that tunnel. The sense of self is replenished with the shining light of knowing, the spirit is strengthened to move ahead and in my own personal belief it means God is happy for you. The God in us all.

 

What is it that keeps us from moving ahead, is it not the wonder of what will be ? Have we lost the wonder that drives us to go on ? Are we stopped in our tracks by our self made realities of what is and what is not. Are we trapped between the beginning and end of a dark tunnel of mind. Can we accept ourselves and move on to what the Buddha was trying to teach us. It's up to us as individuals to find our way in this world, it's up to us to set our own paths and hold onto the faith that leads us to our destination. It's up to you to know what is right for you. But do you know who you really are ? Behind all the facades that we reflect in the mirror, behind all the illusions that we reflect off each other, behind the meanings we infer from the judgments of others, Behind what we believe is key to our survival, behind all that there is a real person inside. One with no rules, no boundaries, no attachments, the eternal being within.”

 

 

So what do you guys think about it? And for anyone on this forum whith DR/DR, have you managed to progress past it or are you still stuck in the same depersonalized/derealized state? For me, I have evolved since my first episode but the fear of ego death and dissolving is still there so I consider myself stuck for the most part, curious to read your thoughts! 

[lostmedstudent]

Thanks for sharing! It was an insightful read. 

I have had several episodes of panic attack/DR/DP. I didnt completely lose touch with reality but i definitely had glimpse of those quite confusing and terrifying states. They are usually more pronounced after psychedelic trips where basically during the whole trip i "lost" myself. So i can see how those DR/DP states are more frequent after a trip. Also, i usually experience deep fear of ego-death during trips, which is a great resource for me to learn more about my fears and myself. It is actually the greatest discovery about myself: to discover that im scared shitless to die! 

After discovering this, you have the opportunity to dig further. You can ask yourself, why , where does this fear come from ?

I can also see how DR and DP can be encountered during spiritual pursuits, because "to find yourself, you must lose yourself". Every now and then, when i have a panic attack and when i have the impeding sense of losing myself and my mind, i use it as an opportunity to learn, improve and listen to what my soul is trying to tell me. Its extremely hard to do when you actually feel like you are dying/dissolving, but you just have to trust yourself and let go. 

Meditation helps, contemplation helps and ultimately, i think psychedelics are great tools if you allow yourself enough time to integrate and recover. I like what the article said, because essentially it doesnt stigmatize DR/DP. I do believe that with the right approach, one could transcend it and it does feel like its a partial ego death. An ego death where one resists. 

How did you evolve past your first episode of DR? What is the trigger of your DR, or was it spontaneous ?

[VeganAwake]

This is a great video I stumbled upon after my experiences... everyone describes their experiences a little different. Daniel's resonated deeply with me. ❤

[Recursoinominado]

As someone prone to dissociation, i recommend the book "The Betrayal Of The Body" by Alexander Lowen, founder of bioenergetic therapy. The book explains the schizoid type of personality and the importance of bringing consciousness to the body.

[Erick]

23 hours ago, lostmedstudent said:

Thanks for sharing! It was an insightful read. 

I have had several episodes of panic attack/DR/DP. I didnt completely lose touch with reality but i definitely had glimpse of those quite confusing and terrifying states. They are usually more pronounced after psychedelic trips where basically during the whole trip i "lost" myself. So i can see how those DR/DP states are more frequent after a trip. Also, i usually experience deep fear of ego-death during trips, which is a great resource for me to learn more about my fears and myself. It is actually the greatest discovery about myself: to discover that im scared shitless to die! 

 

It's an important discovery indeed, and that's what Leo was really talking about when he said that ego death is as real as physical death and in fact the same thing.

23 hours ago, lostmedstudent said:

 

After discovering this, you have the opportunity to dig further. You can ask yourself, why , where does this fear come from ?

I can also see how DR and DP can be encountered during spiritual pursuits, because "to find yourself, you must lose yourself". Every now and then, when i have a panic attack and when i have the impeding sense of losing myself and my mind, i use it as an opportunity to learn, improve and listen to what my soul is trying to tell me. Its extremely hard to do when you actually feel like you are dying/dissolving, but you just have to trust yourself and let go. 

Meditation helps, contemplation helps and ultimately, i think psychedelics are great tools if you allow yourself enough time to integrate and recover.

Yes, the opportunity does arise but in my case I was so bewildered by what I was going through that  the last thing I wanted to do was to dig even further, and in a sense I wonder if i'll ever be able to move past this point.

And what you said about learning from these experiences is true for me to, and in a way I owe it to depersonalization for opening my mind to spirituality and what truth really is, I would never have come this far if it wasn't for all of those experiences.

I would love to try psychedelics some day, I belienve they could help me transcend this fear of death but i'm also afraid that they would f me up even more, you know?  

23 hours ago, lostmedstudent said:

I like what the article said, because essentially it doesnt stigmatize DR/DP. I do believe that with the right approach, one could transcend it and it does feel like its a partial ego death. An ego death where one resists. 

How did you evolve past your first episode of DR? What is the trigger of your DR, or was it spontaneous ?

Me too, saying that DP/DR are just mental disorders is really under appreaciationg the depth of those experiences and what they really entail, and it's exactly like what you said, they are an incomplete ego death.

To answer you questions, I evolved by opening my mind to the possibilities of life and what truth really is, I'm more aware of my emotions and ego triggers and I have accepted the state I'm in rather that ressist it which relieved me from imense fear and pain, but I still have a long road ahead of me as I have not yet overcome the fear of looking at truth and surrendering to it, as to the trigger it was unconscious contemplation and observation, I was going through the spiritual process without even knowing it and one day it just clicked.

What about your experiences with these states? Did they become permanent or did they subside? 

[Erick]

23 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

This is a great video I stumbled upon after my experiences... everyone describes their experiences a little different. Daniel's resonated deeply with me. ❤

Thanks for sharing, I used to really enjoy these kinds of videos where people talk about their first awakening it's really inspiring and magical in a way 

[Erick]

21 hours ago, Recursoinominado said:

As someone prone to dissociation, i recommend the book "The Betrayal Of The Body" by Alexander Lowen, founder of bioenergetic therapy. The book explains the schizoid type of personality and the importance of bringing consciousness to the body.

Thank you for the recommendation, I've been trying to be aware of my body for a while now and this book might be what I needed.

[lostmedstudent]

20 hours ago, Erick said:

I would love to try psychedelics some day, I belienve they could help me transcend this fear of death but i'm also afraid that they would f me up even more, you know?  

yeah i agree. if you have these episodes of DR frequently enough, then it might good to not do psychs until you are able to be equinimous with the DR. it is really hard. when we are right in the middle of the panic attack, the last we wanna go is to let go, but the paradox is right there. there no way out but THROUGH! and no one can really help us . its all up to us. i think with practice, you can overcome that fear. 

watch leos video on how to deal with fear (or what is fear, i forget the exaact name of the title). it should help you .

do you have a personal or family history of DR or psychosis? also read on kundalini activation symptoms, i dont know much about it but idk if it could be that you are experiencing as well. 

for me the state is never permanent. it is usually during panic attacks. and sometimes i even purposely try to trigger the state by visualization to try to face the fear. 

[Erick]

On 5/7/2020 at 3:14 PM, lostmedstudent said:

yeah i agree. if you have these episodes of DR frequently enough, then it might good to not do psychs until you are able to be equinimous with the DR. it is really hard. when we are right in the middle of the panic attack, the last we wanna go is to let go, but the paradox is right there. there no way out but THROUGH! and no one can really help us . its all up to us. i think with practice, you can overcome that fear. 

watch leos video on how to deal with fear (or what is fear, i forget the exaact name of the title). it should help you .

do you have a personal or family history of DR or psychosis? also read on kundalini activation symptoms, i dont know much about it but idk if it could be that you are experiencing as well. 

for me the state is never permanent. it is usually during panic attacks. and sometimes i even purposely try to trigger the state by visualization to try to face the fear. 

Yes it's really paradoxical but unfortunately we can only grasp it by actually letting go, and no amount of conceptualisation will ever help us do so, so there should be a true yearning for truth.

Yeah I should really watch those two videos thanks for the reminder. 

I read about kundalini and it really makes sense, the psychological knots and blocks are what's preventing awakening and DP can be caused by psychological damage.

Really appreciate your advice and I wish you success in your journey. 

[LadyBug]

This thread is a blessing to me after having done Ibogaine and Bufo Alvarious combo treatment about 18 months ago. The DP DR when I got home was so terrifying that I immediately and gratefully returned to all the drugs I sought entheogen experiences to free myself from.  After doing the Ibogaine/Bufo I found that smoking pot was now the MOST intense experience I had ever had - and it still is. It was meditation that finally led me back to some semblance of sanity - that, and abstinence from what I call 'Fools Gold' drugs like stimulants (anything from coffee to kratom, adderall, cocaine and alcohol). Entheogens saved my life for sure - by dissolving it. My 'blue pill' problems became paddy cake childs play compared to losing my sense of 'I'. Things definitely got worse before they got better but I never could have found Samadhi on my own. An addicts ego function is incredibly complex. With the brilliant teachings of Joe Dispenza's scientific approach along with Deepak Chopra's multidisciplinary education and some other contributors to the Youtube station called Science and Nonduality (SAND) I am slowly proceeding through my dark tunnel by a thin lead line of what I can only call some sort of 'faith'. In what, I still have no idea but I've found that the surest and most immediate rescue from DP DR is calling upon my own SELF (even though I don't know where or what that sense of self is). It's the only thing I trust and it comforts me without fail when I sincerely call upon it. Now, I only rarely use entheogenic substances with very deep respect and regard for set and setting, and with a healthy sense of resistance - the way you might simultaneously look forward to and dread an intense psychotherapy session that digs deep into your trauma . In a way, these chemicals are 'Gods' to me and they are jealous and demanding ones. I believe their lessons are self limiting and if you don't respond to their revelations and suggestions (they absolutely WILL answer your questions) they will treat you with as much disregard as you do them - In short, don't play with them like a game unless you want to be made into one. The key is finding the eye of the storm in every situation while holding the tension of the opposites, equally experiencing the agony and the ecstasy at the same time. You can't use your intellect to do this and moving in and out of it is the balanced nature of being a manifested 'vector' of consciousness. We are some fractal form of the particle/wave function on a grand scale. Being and not being at the same time is where I find acceptance and surrender and most precious to me - the state of senseless wonder. If what you are experiencing can be described you can be certain that it isn't real. Let that be ok. 

[The0Self]

DP/DR is simply emptiness + duality. Of course there’s only emptiness (liberation) but nobody knows that. There’s an aspect of experience that is usually ignored by the individual: the emptiness of it all. The person with DP/DR has merely seemed to become aware of this aspect. It’s actually a gain in a sense. A gain isn’t actually good, nor is it bad. When there’s nobody left to be aware though, there’s just indescribable everything — indescribable in the sense that it’s too simple to “get.“

Edited October 29, 2020 by The0Self