Appearance vs. Actuality

[Victor Mgazi]

Something either is the case or isn't the case.

versus

Everything is one and the same thing.

Is ‘meaning’ inevitable or can one see through it, and maybe not get carried away in relative truths? How? 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Meta-Man that's what I'm trying to do, but I'm stuck at appearance.

If there's darkness this means light is absent. How do I see through this appearance, along with any other appearance? If it's not heads it's tails. If it's not both it's none. How can I practically do transcend this? 

 

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Victor Mgazi said:

@Meta-Man that's what I'm trying to do, but I'm stuck at appearance.

If there's darkness this means light is absent. How do I see through this appearance, along with any other appearance? If it's not heads it's tails. If it's not both it's none. How can I practically do transcend this?

Thats not darkness. It is nothingness. Whatever you see in the moment nothingness is inside of it. Thats why you are nothing, which can be everything at the same time. 
 

Additionally, you can understand nothing with this example. Just imagine that you have no body right now, but you can see everything as same as when you have a body. That mean is you exist as nothing but aware, which is awareness itself and therefore you are everything  that you are seeing at the moment ). Because when the body dies you will be still here , not going anywhere else. You are the environment around you. Lol. 

[Victor Mgazi]

43 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Do you mean how can you see the unreal nature of phenomenal appearances?

Or do you mean how can you transcend distinctions?

Please try to rephrase your question

I guess another way to phrase it is: how do I experience reality without projecting unto it. 

I find that I'm mostly either living in the past or the future because of this need, or whatever it is, to judge appearances. 

[Victor Mgazi]

54 minutes ago, James123 said:

Thats not darkness. It is nothingness.

Darkness; nothingness; prettiness. It doesn't really matter what one calls it, I just don't want to be carried away with it as a concept. 

I'm trying to surrender myself to actuality. 

[James123]

13 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

Darkness; nothingness; prettiness. It doesn't really matter what one calls it, I just don't want to be carried away with it as a concept. 

I'm trying to surrender myself to actuality. 

I got it. But the key point is (which worked for me) not trying to surrender yourself, because you are still adding something, trying or forcing yourself to do something, which is an ego. Only way to overcome from concept is To surrender as you now that will decrease chat of monkey mind. You already it, dont add anything. 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Meta-Man what kind of meditation do you suggest? So far, I've only been practicing mindfulness in which I focus on something (breath, sound, body tension and sensation, etc) present in the now moment. 

@James123 yes, I've noticed. I've chosen the method of ‘letting go’ because there's less doership and activeness in it. 'letting go' requires me to simply shift my attention, that's it. And thus literally forgetting about whatever it is that I was trying to let go of (a concept/belief/attachments...) Until, hopefully one day, I've let go of myself completely, thus surrendering. 

My only trouble with this technique is the web of connections within my nexus of identification and attachments. I'd be trying to let go of a belief but a prior or post idea would bring it up again. It's sort of a unsticking  resticking  vibe.

[Victor Mgazi]

38 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Simply sitting in silence and sinking into the still void.

And you do make it sound simple. Am I not to familiarize myself with this void before I can begin to sink in it? But yes I get what needs to happen. Thanks for the input. ?

[James123]

54 minutes ago, Victor Mgazi said:

My only trouble with this technique is the web of connections within my nexus of identification and attachments. I'd be trying to let go of a belief but a prior or post idea would bring it up again. It's sort of a unsticking  resticking  vibe

You need to First decrease and after that let go your expectations from the things that you are attached (in life) to and makes you think during the meditation. 

Edited May 4, 2020 by James123

[Victor Mgazi]

28 minutes ago, James123 said:

You need to First decrease and after that let go your expectations from the things that you are attached (in life) to and makes you think during the meditation. 

Yeah, okay. That sounds achievable with the right attitude. Thank you for your feedback, it's much appreciated. ?

[James123]

@Victor Mgazi You created the world from nothing. I think you can do it  good luck brother.

[SoonHei]

this is appearance:       HELLO HOW ARE YOU

this is actuality:              IOEE VNBRNF FIEKLDC

[Nahm]

@Victor Mgazi

Appearance, in the direct experience sense, is thought, perception, & feeling. “Break down” your experience of right now, in those three direct experiences. See how they will not combine, and see how they are all combined. The actuality in the sense, how you infinite being are appearing ‘as all this’, would be a years long metadventure. You can though. It’s all you. 

[Victor Mgazi]

10 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

Though, in the end you’d want this stillness to completely permeate all areas of your life in an unbroken fashion.

The only kind of stillness that I'm able to achieve for an indefinite period is  silencing the mind by turning it on itself. Is this enough a stillness or can I go deeper with other possible methods? 

8 hours ago, James123 said:

@Victor Mgazi You created the world from nothing. I think you can do it  good luck brother.

Thank you.

8 hours ago, SoonHei said:

this is appearance:       HELLO HOW ARE YOU

this is actuality:              IOEE VNBRNF FIEKLDC

Appearance is sensical, and Actuality is nonsensical?

@Nahm they don't combine in their distinctiveness, but they do combine in their mere presence alone - thus it's all One. Is this what you meant by ‘breaking down’ ?

Anyway, to be more specific: it's not duality/polarity, so to say, that I have a problem with. I can accept duality as part of Truth. It's the trying to understand it, trying to justify or judge it, trying to find a cause and relation, trying to know what things mean.. it's that part that I want to see through.

Why do certain experiences have to be more or less special than others? Why do I judge violence as primitive and judge affection as loving? I mean I get that ultimately there's nobody there doing any ‘judging’ but yet.. there is an appearance of it being so. Am I making sense? This is not me saying that I want to stop something from happening, I have no will to stop anything. What I'm trying to see through is the very thing that I'm doing now: judging the appearance of a me ‘judging’ an appearance. Why can't I just accept this energy of prejudice and discrimination like ignorant people would? To them, being biased doesn't mean anything to them and so they do it with ease.

Again, I'm not saying that I want to be biased and ignorant. Forgive me, language is such a barrier here. I'm saying why should it matter if I am or not? At the end, those who believe they are not making things about themselves are , in reality, doing just that. If I feel the spirit of grace fall upon me then I just want to give out of feeling that very energy of grace, without believing that I am being generous and good. 

I tried my best to communicate this. I don't know if it appears to you that I'm making sense or not. Hopefully, I am. 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Victor Mgazi

[Victor Mgazi]

@Meta-Man oh okay, I see. 

27 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

You’re not really still until the feeling of moving forward in time dissapears and eternity becomes apparent.

Thank you for being this specific, I now know what you mean by stillness.

31 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

you break down enough belief systems and wisdom grows in you, you won’t be so sure why you’re doing the stuff you are doing on a daily basis ‘Am I doing this because I think it will deliver me happiness in the future?’ etc. 

As you move along the path, your personal drive will start to dry up. Activities done on behalf of the ego will fall away over time, as your outward search comes to an end. This can be experienced as very difficult. This is where your identity starts crumbling and dissolving as you stop putting in the energy of maintaining it and grooming it.

Looking forward to not looking forward at anything ?

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

they don't combine in their distinctiveness, but they do combine in their mere presence alone - thus it's all One. Is this what you meant by ‘breaking down’ ?

I suspect you are thinking and arriving at a conceptual explanation. 

 

Anyway, to be more specific: it's not duality/polarity, so to say, that I have a problem with. I can accept duality as part of Truth.

Can you though? Is “part” thought, perception, or feeling? 

 

It's the trying to understand it, trying to justify or judge it, trying to find a cause and relation, trying to know what things mean.. it's that part that I want to see through.

Right on. Is that thought, perception or feeling? Break it down. 

 

Why do certain experiences have to be more or less special than others?

Are they? Is that thought, perception or feeling?  How is an experience separate from another experience? 

 

Why do I judge violence as primitive and judge affection as loving?

Are you really doing that, or is that a thought you’re believing? Is violence thought, perception or feeling?  What about judgement? Affection? Love?  There’s no marathon. All answers are in direct experience, prior to the starting gun firing. 

 

I mean I get that ultimately there's nobody there doing any ‘judging’ but yet.. there is an appearance of it being so. Am I making sense?

Who’s claiming there’s nobody there? Is nobody thought, perception, feeling? What about, ‘there’?  What about “it”? What is “making sense”? Who is anything making sense to if there is nobody?  Who is being asked if there is nobody?  *Thought, perception, feeling. 

 

This is not me saying that I want to stop something from happening, I have no will to stop anything.

What / who can say “I have no will” ? What is will? What is a separate thing which could or could not be stopped? *Thought, perception, feeling! 

What I'm trying to see through is the very thing that I'm doing now: judging the appearance of a me ‘judging’ an appearance. Why can't I just accept this energy of prejudice and discrimination like ignorant people would?

“Ignorant people” ?! ?  Thought, perception, feeling!!!!!!!! 

 

To them, being biased doesn't mean anything to them and so they do it with ease.

Them??   ??‍♂️ Thought, perception, feeing!

Again, I'm not saying that I want to be biased and ignorant. Forgive me, language is such a barrier here. I'm saying why should it matter if I am or not?

“Matter”? ? Thought, perception, feeling!

At the end, those who believe they are not making things about themselves are , in reality, doing just that. If I feel the spirit of grace fall upon me then I just want to give out of feeling that very energy of grace, without believing that I am being generous and good. 

Then inspect direct experience thoroughly and transcendent paradox. Leave the kiddie pool Alice. 

     ⬇️

??

I tried my best to communicate this. I don't know if it appears to you that I'm making sense or not. Hopefully, I am. 

Thought, perception, feeling. 

♥️??

 

 

[Victor Mgazi]

52 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I suspect you are thinking and arriving at a conceptual explanation. 

Maybe, I would have to conceptualize it anyway in order for me to communicate it to you. Otherwise I just could have said that there's nothing to combine and no one to combine anything, and that would be the end.

56 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Can you though? Is “part” thought, perception, or feeling? 

I don't know, it's just what appears to be in the present moment. Things appear distinctive and I am at peace with that, it's just the way it is. 

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Right on. Is that thought, perception or feeling? Break it down. 

Okay, but does it really matter what it is. I mean is there correct answer to this? Whether I say it's a thought or a perception, I don't see how it's going to affect the apparent. But if I must answer this question then it's both thought and perception: thought because there's a making sense out of it, perception because it's what seeing (despite it being projection). Feeling has nothing to do with it.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Are they? Is that thought, perception or feeling?  How is an experience separate from another experience? 

Okay, I think it's best to define perception for just for context sake. I don't really know or experience perception, so some clarity on that would be nice. Also with experience. To me that's just an appearance from actuality. But no, nothing is separate, it just appears that way.

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Are you really doing that, or is that a thought you’re believing? Is violence thought, perception or feeling?  What about judgement? Affection? Love?  There’s no marathon. All answers are in direct experience, prior to the starting gun firing. 

Okay, I'll look at this. It appears that I really am though, even if this appearance it based on thought. Unless what you're saying is that appearance is based on belief, then yes.. I'll look at this. 

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Who’s claiming there’s nobody there? Is nobody thought, perception, feeling? What about, ‘there’?  What about “it”? What is “making sense”? Who is anything making sense to if there is nobody?  Who is being asked if there is nobody?  *Thought, perception, feeling. 

Are you saying that ultimately there's nothing but thought, perception and feeling? 

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

What / who can say “I have no will” ? What is will? What is a separate thing which could or could not be stopped? *Thought, perception, feeling! 

?

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

“Ignorant people” ?! ?  Thought, perception, feeling!!!!!!!! 

??

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Them??   ??‍♂️ Thought, perception, feeing!

Are you a thought, perception, feeling?

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Leave the kiddie pool Alice. 

     ⬇️

??

???

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Thought, perception, feeling. 

♥️??

 

I'm going to start calling you “ThoughtPerceptionAndFeeling” ?

[Nahm]

@Victor Mgazi Don’t inspect anymore. 

 

[zeroISinfinity]

Feelings=Love (how that happened?) 

Perception =Love(again, really?) 

Toughts=Creation 

 

[Victor Mgazi]

@Nahm ?