How To Survive??

[Orange]

This is adressed to empaths and psychopaths-narcissics alike (and everyone in between);

How can you survive as an empath in a highly individualistic -psychopathic society? I would like to do work in an altruistic manner and help every breathing living being not because I need an ego boost but because that is what my brain is wired to do and likes. I still have a hard time accepting suffering, especially on those who cannot defend themselves. 

But how can I survive psychologicaly in this society? Am i weak for having emotions? The big rewards are all given to those who are very selfish and own the corporations and the power. If you are empathetic from my experience is you are taken advantage of and crushed by those who have less empathy or none at all. Should I become psychopath-narcissic myself to avoid this? 

 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Orange

[charlie2dogs]

25 minutes ago, Orange said:

This is adressed to empaths and psychopaths-narcissics alike (and everyone in between);

How can you survive as an empath in a highly individualistic -psychopathic society? I would like to do work in an altruistic manner and help every breathing living being not because I need an ego boost but because that is what my brain is wired to do and likes. I still have a hard time accepting suffering, especially on those who cannot defend themselves. 

But how can I survive psychologicaly in this society? Am i weak for having emotions? The big rewards are all given to those who are very selfish and own the corporations and the power. If you are empathetic from my experience is you are taken advantage of and crushed by those who have less empathy or none at all. Should I become psychopath-narcissic myself to avoid this? 

 

you can only survive if you see the bigger picture, and work from a higher place than the human identity.  you must also be able to control your emotions and mental state, if you are going to work with people who have serious problems, because if you don't and can't, you will become trapped in stress which will tear you down completely until you are not able to function.  it cannot be about you, what you want or think, your agenda, you will deal with those on the level they are on as best you can, without judgement, without driving them into deeper problems and more pain.  you need to gently as possible try to help them see their own self worth, raise their self esteem.  this comes from over 40 years of this kind of work, and after being in icu for stress some years ago,  if you cannot maintain mental clarity, and emotional stability, without becoming attached to the pain body of the one you are trying to help,  it (will)  end in a disaster for you and them.   helping other people requires a great deal, you need to understand where they are, why they are where they are, how they got there,  and try to show them another way even though they are not able to see it at the time. and most of all you need to help yourself before beginning to try to help others with serious problems, because it will present some of your biggest challenges,  but if you are able, and can, the experiences may make you something other than just a human identity.

[Orange]

@charlie2dogs thanks for you reply, i appreciate, although I am wondering:

- how can I help someone who cannot process empathy because their amygdala (seat of emotions) are reduced ? They simply cannot change because that is how they are biologically constructed..of course there are those whose life circumstances made them asocial (abuse etc) but the ones who are born with reduced amygdala cannot grow new ones and suddenly become more empathetic

- am I right to want to change someone to become more empathetic? Is it right to want respect for all the living beings (animals, humans, plants) ? Because nature itself is very cruel, she doesn't care. Again, are emotions not a weakness ? I really don't know  

- and how can I maintain emotional stability when I will be in front of cruelty and abuse? 

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

@charlie2dogs thanks for you reply, i appreciate, although I am wondering:

- how can I help someone who cannot process empathy because their amygdala (seat of emotions) are reduced ? They simply cannot change because that is how they are biologically constructed..of course there are those whose life circumstances made them asocial (abuse etc) but the ones who are born with reduced amygdala cannot grow new ones and suddenly become more empathetic

- am I right to want to change someone to become more empathetic? Is it right to want respect for all the living beings (animals, humans, plants) ? Because nature itself is very cruel, she doesn't care. Again, are emotions not a weakness ? I really don't know  

- and how can I maintain emotional stability when I will be in front of cruelty and abuse? 

you can help most anyone, maybe not the way you want to help, but it may be the way they want or need help,  whether they have the ablility to change are not,  you cant change anyone,  don't waste your time thinking about it, you can only change yourself and do for others what they need or want because you choose to for whatever reason, when you begin to try to control other peoples lives you become very responsible for the outcome.

nature isnt cruel at all, and nature does care, you are just not experiencing it in its natural way.   emotions are not weakness, however you can allow your emotions to create major problems for you and others, if your emotions are not coming from the right place and for the right reasons and are not stable.

if you have to ask this question of how to maintain emotional stability when you will be in front of cruelty and abuse, you are not ready to help them.  this will come from experience and you may pay the price for it just like i did, until, you awaken to the reality of yourself, life, and those around you and i mean in a real way, not just rationalization or intellectualizing, but rather an experience  as an awakened, or self realized  being,

when confronted with cruelty and abuse when trying to help others, you have to be very strong in most all ways, to first not see it as cruelty or abuse, but actions of a person who is hurting, in pain, misery, cant live with themselves, many want to die.  until you have had to work with people who want to kill themselves because of the pain and misery they are in,  and are ready to do it,  when you begin to realize that you could be the thing that pushes this person over the edge,  you will give a lot of thought and consideration to what you are going to do and what you are going to say, and even how you look when you do and say it.  For most of you younguns as we called them, forget about saving the world right now, find the real you and work with that, it will enable you to face what arises in the moment for you to deal with, and without that, you are screwed.

[Orange]

nature isnt cruel at all, and nature does care, you are just not experiencing it in its natural way.

 

@charlie2dogsI don't understand this..because when I see nature I don't see any feelings in it. A zebra can be eaten alive by lions and suffer for long minutes before its brain and heart shut down, or there are parasitic worms that eat animals from the inside out and in the meantime the animal infested will suffer for a long time before it dies. How is nature caring? We as human species, are living behind glass doors and sitting in pillows because we put ourselves in this place, this is the only reason. However it does not prevent drama cases once in a while with ted bundy kind of people. So how is nature caring? 

Also, not all abuse and cruelty come from people who are in pain, some people simply enjoy it for what it is because their brain is wired that way. They get the good feeling from torture and sadism. So would I be right to promote the respect of all living beings to these people and everyone else? What if they are right instead? Of course our society is opposed to criminal behavior (in general, because when it comes to war society rewards criminal behavior and they wrap it in notions like: "saving democracy", "protecting our children and country" etc)

So in general criminality is frowned upon. But that is a social construct, how do I know that the path I am taking (ie. Being empathetic) is the right way? Why keep the emotions when they hurt so much? Isn't it more advantageous to be a psychopath?

 

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, Orange said:

nature isnt cruel at all, and nature does care, you are just not experiencing it in its natural way.

 

@charlie2dogsI don't understand this..because when I see nature I don't see any feelings in it. A zebra can be eaten alive by lions and suffer for long minutes before its brain and heart shut down, or there are parasitic worms that eat animals from the inside out and in the meantime the animal infested will suffer for a long time before it dies. How is nature caring? We as human species, are living behind glass doors and sitting in pillows because we put ourselves in this place, this is the only reason. However it does not prevent drama cases once in a while with ted bundy kind of people. So how is nature caring? 

Also, not all abuse and cruelty come from people who are in pain, some people simply enjoy it for what it is because their brain is wired that way. They get the good feeling from torture and sadism. So would I be right to promote the respect of all living beings to these people and everyone else? What if they are right instead? Of course our society is opposed to criminal behavior (in general, because when it comes to war society rewards criminal behavior and they wrap it in notions like: "saving democracy", "protecting our children and country" etc)

So in general criminality is frowned upon. But that is a social construct, how do I know that the path I am taking (ie. Being empathetic) is the right way? Why keep the emotions when they hurt so much? Isn't it more advantageous to be a psychopath?

 

 

2 hours ago, Orange said:

nature isnt cruel at all, and nature does care, you are just not experiencing it in its natural way.

 

@charlie2dogsI don't understand this..because when I see nature I don't see any feelings in it. A zebra can be eaten alive by lions and suffer for long minutes before its brain and heart shut down, or there are parasitic worms that eat animals from the inside out and in the meantime the animal infested will suffer for a long time before it dies. How is nature caring? We as human species, are living behind glass doors and sitting in pillows because we put ourselves in this place, this is the only reason. However it does not prevent drama cases once in a while with ted bundy kind of people. So how is nature caring? 

Also, not all abuse and cruelty come from people who are in pain, some people simply enjoy it for what it is because their brain is wired that way. They get the good feeling from torture and sadism. So would I be right to promote the respect of all living beings to these people and everyone else? What if they are right instead? Of course our society is opposed to criminal behavior (in general, because when it comes to war society rewards criminal behavior and they wrap it in notions like: "saving democracy", "protecting our children and country" etc)

So in general criminality is frowned upon. But that is a social construct, how do I know that the path I am taking (ie. Being empathetic) is the right way? Why keep the emotions when they hurt so much? Isn't it more advantageous to be a psychopath?

 

i understand that you dont understand, the short answer is you are not one with nature, as you are not one with the life force within you,  you said your brain was wired to be a certain way,  what you really needed to say was i have been programed to be this way and it has become my belief system.

you said: and how can I maintain emotional stability when I will be in front of cruelty and abuse?  primarily this was what i addressed and the part about you questioning whether you should change someone, this is not to offend or criticize you.

[Mal]

9 hours ago, Orange said:

This is adressed to empaths and psychopaths-narcissics alike (and everyone in between);

How can you survive as an empath in a highly individualistic -psychopathic society? I would like to do work in an altruistic manner and help every breathing living being not because I need an ego boost but because that is what my brain is wired to do and likes. I still have a hard time accepting suffering, especially on those who cannot defend themselves. 

But how can I survive psychologicaly in this society? Am i weak for having emotions? The big rewards are all given to those who are very selfish and own the corporations and the power. If you are empathetic from my experience is you are taken advantage of and crushed by those who have less empathy or none at all. Should I become psychopath-narcissic myself to avoid this? 

 

This might sound odd right now, but what this gentleman says about sorting yourself out first is true.  Awaken first, then observe the view.  The only thing that will be left for you to do is waken others up from the dream.  Fixing the world the way you see it right now is like trying to paint some makeup on your reflection in the mirror, attempting to make it seem more palatable, while you ignore the fact that it's only a reflection. 

[Mal]

Nature is not cruel. Nature is nature.  The "cruel" part is made up purely by the human intellect because it has been programmed this way in order to create societies that seem to work.  The only beings on this planet that make these distinctions are human beings, and they make them based on innacurate assumptions. 

The problem the human race has is that we have natural impulses and urges, but we distort them by imagining that we own them, or are culpable for having these impulses. 

If somebody hurts our feelings that's natural. The problem comes when we create an ideology around getting our feelings hurt.  We take things way too far and blame others for doing things that are just natural and innocent, and that sometimes can't be helped.  We create bad names for people and aspects of man's nature, we label simple natural emotions as something good or bad, and we can even do this to the point of "splitting", which ironically is an immature ego defense mechanism.  To be unable to integrate the wholesome and unwholesome aspects of ourselves and others means we are using this splitting defence unconsciously ourselves, and inadvertently creating a nightmare for ourselves in the process. 

The more whole we are as people (accepting of our apparent good and bad aspects) the more whole others appear.  The less dangerous the world appears, because in reality our world is merely a reflection of our inner world.  If our inner world is fragmented then our vision is fragmented and innacurate.

Awakening is about becoming whole again. Making peace with the world and our inner world too, so that one day there is nothing left to do except facillitate others in making these internal changes in their own lives.

We change the world by changing ourselves first. If we try to change others while we ourselves are not whole we create a whole bunch of problems for ourselves and others. 

Edited July 7, 2016 by Mal

[Orange]

@charlie2dogs no its fine, I didn't take anything as an offence, I'm just very confused at the moment and I have very few reference points to hold onto in my life, they are all coming down. I don't know what is the right thing to do and although your answers provide me some insight, I feel I am not wise enough to understand them so I'm still confused with broad statements. 

[jes]

@Orange

I can relate with , because I too was there , I am still in middle of my journey 

I am student in this field ,just want to share my experience

1.self love and acceptance ,practice it , make your feelings and emotions your friends ( be with them ,give them time) @Mal taught me this 

2.Life force within ,i practice it consciously , still not an expert in it

 @charlie2dogs

he is my master too ,and he gave me the best advice ever 

( two months from now ,I was suffering from GAD , depression ,insecure ,no self esteem) 

Initially i took baby steps ,just started from meditation , we are NOT supposed to act like an individual ,this all thing is going on is one , ( there is oneness) 

recently i developed a technique for myself  let me share 

sometimes if my ego phase gets activated ,i become aware right away , i see myself in other person , ( like mirror) all my negative emotions vanished away ( Because I have developed self love and acceptance) , Dont let devil take your soul ,Don't let your lower conscious steal your high conscious , you are ahead of all this , remind yourself this ,it will give you peace) ,Life force within ( practicing awareness, presence ,JUST BE in a moment ,try it take some baby steps ) I used to remind myself of how an excellent Human is like  ,now i dont remind ,somehow i am developing habit of how to be a present Moment  

Good luck with this journey 

Sorry for English

Edited July 8, 2016 by jes

[Mal]

2 hours ago, jes said:

@Orange

1.self love and acceptance ,practice it , make your feelings and emotions your friends ( be with them ,give them time) @Mal

 @charlie2dogs

sometimes if my ego phase gets activated ,i become aware right away , i see myself in other person , ( like mirror) all my negative emotions vanished away 

Thanks for sharing.

This is true.

I myself am going through extreme suffering at the moment. I get myself in quite a state, but as soon as I begin to own the characters in my dream the whole nightmare grinds to a halt.  The only think I know for sure is that I really know nothing. 

The mind creates all of this, and until we are able to master our own minds we will not be able to really help other people.

But to accept these truths we need to have an awakening experience.  Because if all we think we are is a human identity, we can not begin to entertain that there is something more than our conditioned mind.  Once we awaken from that dream it's much easier to start to work with these concepts.  Until then, these insights can't be accepted by the ego.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Mal

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, Orange said:

@charlie2dogs no its fine, I didn't take anything as an offence, I'm just very confused at the moment and I have very few reference points to hold onto in my life, they are all coming down. I don't know what is the right thing to do and although your answers provide me some insight, I feel I am not wise enough to understand them so I'm still confused with broad statements. 

then you are in the best place you could be, in a confused state at your age, dont jump on every bandwagon that comes along, dont grasp at every newage theory you hear on the net, spend more time with your real self, all the answers you need are there, waiting patiently to appear as the master in your life.

[charlie2dogs]

2 hours ago, jes said:

@Orange

I can relate with , because I too was there , I am still in middle of my journey 

I am student in this field ,just want to share my experience

1.self love and acceptance ,practice it , make your feelings and emotions your friends ( be with them ,give them time) @Mal taught me this 

2.Life force within ,i practice it consciously , still not an expert in it

 @charlie2dogs

he is my master too ,and he gave me the best advice ever 

( two months from now ,I was suffering from GAD , depression ,insecure ,no self esteem) 

Initially i took baby steps ,just started from meditation , we are NOT supposed to act like an individual ,this all thing is going on is one , ( there is oneness) 

recently i developed a technique for myself  let me share 

sometimes if my ego phase gets activated ,i become aware right away , i see myself in other person , ( like mirror) all my negative emotions vanished away ( Because I have developed self love and acceptance) , Dont let devil take your soul ,Don't let your lower conscious steal your high conscious , you are ahead of all this , remind yourself this ,it will give you peace) ,Life force within ( practicing awareness, presence ,JUST BE in a moment ,try it take some baby steps ) I used to remind myself of how an excellent Human is like  ,now i dont remind ,somehow i am developing habit of how to be a present Moment  

Good luck with this journey 

Sorry for English

often one discovers that other peoples way doesnt work,  but if you keep your eye on and connect with the life giving consciousness that carries your body, the way will be opened before you,  there comes a time when you see most of what you chased after as nonsense, and you get this feeling there is something more , bigger, more powerful, right within yourself.  become the moment, experience the moment and and experience it from within and everything else will be taken care of

[Orange]

4 hours ago, jes said:

sometimes if my ego phase gets activated ,i become aware right away , i see myself in other person

Thanks Jes but here you mean you try to go in their mind and see life from their perspective? Thinking like the other person thinks?

 

2 hours ago, Mal said:

 I get myself in quite a state, but as soon as I begin to own the characters in my dream the whole nightmare grinds to a halt. 

Hey Mal what do you mean exactly by owning the character? Is it also the same as what Jes said? Going into the mind of the other person? 

4 hours ago, jes said:

Dont let devil take your soul ,Don't let your lower conscious steal your high conscious 

What is the devil? 

[jes]

@Orange As i said ,I am a student myself not a expert here ,Is it ok ? if I do not answer your questions ? I just wanted to share my experience ,because what @charlie2dogs and @Mal said worked for me  

[Orange]

@charlie2dogs thank you Charlie!

[Orange]

@jes yes of course, I'm just trying to understand what you have understood. It's not entirely clear for me but ill go with this information already. Thank you for the info! 

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, Orange said:

@jes yes of course, I'm just trying to understand what you have understood. It's not entirely clear for me but ill go with this information already. Thank you for the info! 

sometimes its difficult for many who are awakening to put into words what is really going on with them and rightly so, and often things can seem like broad statements if you are not having the experience  being talked about,  lets start at the starting line, there appears to be two of you one physical one non physical, the physical is a creation of the non physical, to experience a physical experience that cannot be experienced as an invisible entity,  most will function as the created identity all their life, a few will begin to function as the creator of the created identity. this is called self realization or enlightenment.  spend some time contemplating this.

[jes]

Thank you Master  @charlie2dogs

 

[Orange]

7 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

sometimes its difficult for many who are awakening to put into words what is really going on with them and rightly so, and often things can seem like broad statements if you are not having the experience  being talked about,  lets start at the starting line, there appears to be two of you one physical one non physical, the physical is a creation of the non physical, to experience a physical experience that cannot be experienced as an invisible entity,  most will function as the created identity all their life, a few will begin to function as the creator of the created identity. this is called self realization or enlightenment.  spend some time contemplating 

 

In here the creator of the created identity is the non physical?