The New Cult of Brian Rose and David Icke

[Consept]

The situation as I see it is we should have complete free speech in general, when it comes to using public platforms for this free speech we would have to regulate speech that is both provably untrue and also harmful, for example hate speech or calls to incite violence. This will also include things that act in bad faith, shouting fire in a packed cinema example, which is what i believe Rose has done here. 

Conspiracy theories can offer a problem, maybe for some of them there maybe some truth, but i think most can agree that majority of conspiracy theories dont hold water. Flat earth for example is not particularly harmful so theres no problem with that being posted publicly, however something like Sandy Hook can be dangerous as families of the kids that got killed were harassed constantly after the shooting. So i think that if a conspiracy theory either doesnt have enough evidence or is comprehensively debunked and is dangerous, i dont think that should be allowed to be shared publicly. This shouldnt restrict those that want to look at alternative theories but there has to be some criteria. If theres not you can have a manipulation of this freedom of speech as we've seen play out by Russia and America setting up fake facebook groups and using astroturfing to instigate and fuel peoples paranoia. 

The other question is who regulates this criteria and that is a tough one, youd really need some kind of independent body that reviews flagged up content. It wouldnt be right to have youtube or the government in charge of it. People could regulate themselves but i dont think that will happen as we've seen many will post controversial views just to get the hype out of it or, if theres a strong agenda and win at all costs mentally they may post up misinformation, so were not really there yet for self-regulation. 

[TheAlchemist]

It's another way of projecting our fear outwards. Now billions of people are inside, stuck with facing all their shadow material maybe for the first time in their lives. There's a limited amount of escapes, so a great way is to create yet another "them" who we can project the fear/anger/sadness/hate onto that we are incapable of facing within ourselves. 

I have no idea if David's ideas are grounded in reality or not, but it's easy to see that most of the people jumping on board the conspiracy train are just escaping the pain inside and projecting it out. That's never healthy..

Edit: also we should remain conscious about the possibility of a new form of order being created in the process of stabilizing this chaos. That state of order could be created less democratically than previous forms and it could be used as an opportunity to increase the grip on citizens. It's good to be aware of that but it does more damage than good if we choose to close our minds around that idea, it can easily become just another mind virus.

Edited May 7, 2020 by TheAlchemist

[Jacobsrw]

@TheAlchemist exactly my thoughts too. I spoke of this with a friends as a necessary inflection point for humanity in which the ego will have no choice but to face its illusions. People are avoiding turning inward because the whole narrative of an ego is to as you said, project any direction but where it currently exists. 

What’s even more coincidental...is people will have to face themselves one way or another. Whether a conspiracy theory is true or it isn’t, does not dissolve the fact exploring oneself is the only way to transcend it.

The ego will use anything at its will to obscure seeing itself as the sole creator of suffering.

[Jacobsrw]

@Consept This is a very complex matter. It’s not as simple as regulating harmful and unharmful content. It’s completely relative and contingent upon the varying contexts and their subsequent circumstances. We require context sensitivity.

There can be very little generalisability here because every situation is different and cannot be fully predicted. Also decentralising a platforms rights to ban is dangerous, as it only further perpetuates a dictatorship enforcement.

Platforms should have the right to censor information but should be transparent in doing so. There could be basic regulations for adherences a platform must abide to, but as for specific censoring, it should be left to the platform itself. Since those whom created it, operate it, run it and assess its traffic are those who provided the very opportunity to use it.

One is not obligated to use these platforms, it’s not a right it’s a privilege. Ungrateful groups of people are currently banding together as if it’s their god given right to use these platforms. It isn’t, these platforms are independent of the systems in which freedom of speech rest within. Each platform has it own rules and regulation just as each ecosystem has its own climatic laws.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[LfcCharlie4]

Maybe you'll listen to Doctors that something dodgy is going on? 

At what points does it go from conspiracy to obvious something is truly going on here? 

@Consept Yeah isolated conspiracies are so so, personally I don't give 2 fucks about flat earth or moon landings, only about the truth about what is going on in the world, and who actually controls the world. 

For example's Ickes 'theries' is simply one Conspiracy theory (he calls it a global 'cult') that has many branches, and all incidents are part of this Agenda in some way or another. 

https://heavy.com/news/2020/05/plandemic-movie-video/

@Jacobsrw  Free Speech should not be restricted at the point of speaking. 

So, let's say a Neo-Nazi constantly spouts anti-Semitism, that is their opinion and they have a right to speak it, it DOESN'T mean their isn't consequences for actual HATE speech that is causing harm and issues, consequences and repercussions are essential in society of course, nobody is saying that. Of course there should be consequences for hate speech and crimes, I don't think anyone thinks that shouldn't be the case.

But, just because you are going against a government agenda doesn't mean their should be repercussions without full investigations into each issue, for example, nobody truly looked into Icke's theories regarding COVID-1984 and simply banned him, how is that at all fair? 

The issue is when people are being censored before the point of actually speaking- Like Icke now. 

This video explains it quite well- 

 

 

[Jacobsrw]

@LfcCharlie4 It doesn’t matter who speaks about a given theory, it’s how they do it and the manner in which it is articulated. It’s not about convincing people of a theory. A doctor scholar, politician, journalist whoever, it’s besides the point. How are you conducting your speech is the question, little do it very well in a public context. Something may be going on but very few have competently or adequately addressed this.

The biggest deception in the proliferation of all these theories is that they create the biggest illusion of all. To avoid turning inward and taking responsibility. It’s easy to blame a government that’s independent of you, but to admit you play an active role in corruption is a bitter pill to swallow. No “conspiracy” theorist in my view, has in the slightest met the level of comprehensiveness required to address global concerns. Corruption is interdependent, not isolated. These theorists use carefully constructed theories to export responsibility to an external entity in any effort to absolve themselves of any influential inclusion.

The biggest deception here is not the government. It’s ego. Not one ego here or there, each individual ego in collectivity. That I have not heard one theorist willingly admit.

Again, you are missing the point @LfcCharlie4 its not what he said it’s how he said it. He’s claims were ambiguous, inflammatory, insensitive, and also many unsubstantiated. I agreed with few, but many were just developed from previous approximated opinions.

People want any excuse but to explore the “I” they experience. They thoroughly enjoy the “they”, “this” or “that” but not the essence from which it all arises. Practical action may need to be taken regarding government inquiries, I still do not see Ickes efforts as valid in its effectiveness, clearly that is evident. If anything the government has only contracted.

Even if there is a corrupted government (which to some degree there will always be) it must be dealt with from the inside out, not the other way around.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Consept]

1 hour ago, TheAlchemist said:

It's another way of projecting our fear outwards. Now billions of people are inside, stuck with facing all their shadow material maybe for the first time in their lives. There's a limited amount of escapes, so a great way is to create yet another "them" who we can project the fear/anger/sadness/hate onto that we are incapable of facing within ourselves. 

I have no idea if David's ideas are grounded in reality or not, but it's easy to see that most of the people jumping on board the conspiracy train are just escaping the pain inside and projecting it out. That's never healthy..

Edit: also we should remain conscious about the possibility of a new form of order being created in the process of stabilizing this chaos. That state of order could be created less democratically than previous forms and it could be used as an opportunity to increase the grip on citizens. It's good to be aware of that but it does more damage than good if we choose to close our minds around that idea, it can easily become just another mind virus.

 

58 minutes ago, Jacobsrw said:

 This is a very complex matter. It’s not as simple as regulating harmful and unharmful content. It’s completely relative and contingent upon the varying contexts and their subsequent circumstances. We require context sensitivity.

There can be very little generalisability here because every situation is different and cannot be fully predicted. Also decentralising a platforms rights to ban is dangerous, as it only further perpetuates a dictatorship enforcement.

Platforms should have the right to censor information but should be transparent in doing so. There could be basic regulations for adherences a platform must abide to, but as for specific censoring, it should be left to the platform itself. Since those whom created it, operate it, run it and assess its traffic are those who provided the very opportunity to use it.

One is not obligated to use these platforms, it’s not a right it’s a privilege. Ungrateful groups of people are currently banding together as if it’s their god given right to use these platforms. It isn’t, these platforms are independent of the systems in which freedom of speech rest within. Each platform has it own rules and regulation just as each ecosystem has its own climatic laws.

I agree with these points, ultimately human life has been about not wanting to face our shadows and not wanting to go inward, mainly because of fear. We live in the illusion of certainty day to day, this has pandemic has really shaken up that illusion and what we're seeing is a hanging on to that. Normally people wouldnt care but a lot are jumping on the bandwagon because its almost easier to believe the current government isnt providing the certainty or illusion that we want so they must be evil and have ulterior motives so lets get rid of them. Obviously things dont work like that but it probably gives some reassurance. 

Regarding youtube being the censor of content, possibly but they would have to be very transparent with it and unilaterally censor things regardless of political stance or whatever. It can get tricky with things like unproven truths, for example some doctors have brought up things on youtube that later came out as true which mainstream wasnt reporting but was very useful for the public to know. So i think who should regulate is still a difficult decision. Its not a right to post on youtube but youtube is so big that it does have a responsibility. Again its a tough one and very nuanced. 

37 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Maybe you'll listen to Doctors that something dodgy is going on? 

At what points does it go from conspiracy to obvious something is truly going on here? 

At what point does something have to be proven wrong to be forgotten about? Lets say Mikovitz was proven wrong comprehensively, which most doctors believe she was, does she then have a right to go on spreading information that is factually incorrect? Many people will believe her and could be negatively affected by doing so, so what happens then? (keep in mind im not saying if shes right or wrong im saying imagine shes wrong). Buttar is another example where ive looked into him personally and can see that the claims he makes are ridiculous, just a quick one he claims the 0.5mg in some vaccines is very dangerous, when if you look into it theres 50mg of mercury in tuna and it is the dangerous type that bioaccumulates as opposed to in vaccines where it doesnt. Most doctors have a similar view on him, so going by our standards, should he not be blocked from youtube? Why should you be allowed to spread potentially harmful misinformation? This should be stopped before he goes on a platform because as we're seeing now people are believing what hes saying just because hes doctor, if you had someone on to debate him then fair enough but thats not whats happening here. 

What if in your neo-nazi example their speech leads to one of the followers killing someone? Do we still let others say the same thing? If you know what they say isnt right and arrest them after they say it and stop them from saying it again, then whats the point? Thats like saying dont stop a crime if you can let them hurt someone and then theyll be consequences after 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Jacobsrw Yeah I get most use it as an escape.

However, personally I only got interested in Conspiracies, Politics & society post awakening, a bit like Icke. Which is why at the start of EVERY one of Ickes books the nature of reality is always discussed BEFORE any theories whatsoever, as I keep trying to say. 
 

Please refrain from calling his claims unsubstantiated until watching the following videos and reading the following books, or you are simply making comments blind. 
 

The Trigger by David Icke 

Everything They Don’t Want You To Know by David Icke 

 

Again, yes he’s been too forceful in his approach, and you have the way YOU think things should be solved, as Icke has his.

Like I said, if you’d actually understood his teachings, you know it isn’t about simply a corrupt government but goes far far beyond that, how do you think he gets smeared with the Lizard people headlines? 
 

Before judging someone’s teachings please do due diligence on them, you cannot say Ickes claims are unsubstantiated when you don’t actually understand them. It’s like saying Honey tastes shit without ever trying it. 
 

@Consept Sorry, if mainstream doctors go against alternative health what’s new? 
 

All I will say is 3 words. 
 

Follow the money. 
 

Who benefits from this pandemic and who suffers? 
 

When you answer that, you can begin to understand what is actually happening and why. 
 

Hence, why consequences are needed, which will deter people from commiting acts, for example some people still murder despite the prison scare. Ideally we grow as a society to a point where Murder happens less and less, as well as hate crimes. I understand your concerns though, and don’t have a perfect solution, all I know is Social Media censorship is the equivalent of Nazi& Communist book burnings in the 21st century. 
 

YouTube recently said they will delete any advice going against WHO guidelines, basically meaning you can’t investigate these things for yourself, but just have to accept what is told to you. 
 

Personally I will not be taking any Flu or Covid vaccines, why would I need to? 
 

An organic whole foods diet, hydration, fasting, cold therapy, Wim Hof Method, Meditation, correct supplementation, plenty of natural sunlight among other things is more than enough to stay healthy. 
 

If I do contract “Covid” I already have an exact supplement regimen to take from the first sign of symptoms until the end of infection. 
 

My biggest hope was this will encourage people to actually look at how toxic their lifestyles are, some have at least started exercising, but many are just riddled with fear over a disease a little worse than the Flu. 99.2% of Italian deaths due to Covid-19 were of people with 1 or more underlying health conditions. 
 

The biggest problems will not come from deaths directly to Covid, but the millions who will die as a result of economic Armageddon that will ensue, as well as the inability to get care and treatment for other diseases. 

My GFs dad is a banker, and he expects a recession that makes 2008 look like a stroll in the park, and has said he has no idea how the businesses they are loaning to will ever be able to pay back the loans. 
 

This is only the beginning of the destruction as a result of Covid-19.

Expect to see Mandatory vaccines, Currencies destroyed, cash taken out of circulation and potential economic destruction. 

Again, I highly encourage you to look at this document on Agenda 2030. 

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld

It is simply fabricated with pretty words to make it sounds amazing. 
 

The EU was simply a stepping stone for this, hence the introduction of the Euro and proposal for a EU army, among other things. 
 

[Consept]

@LfcCharlie4 Well if you do follow the money regarding the original topic, youll see all these guys Rose, Buttar, Mikovitz etc are making a shitload. 

Ive literally just seen a post on facebook that says Dr Buttar exposes that Bill Gates patented the covid, theres a graphic on it saying 'this will get deleted in 24 hours'. The claim itself is easily debunked, but you can see how it might have been purposefully misinterpreted -  https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2020/the-gates-foundation-does-not-have-a-patent-for-the-coronavirus/. But whats annoying is the marketing on shock tactics thats used to promote these videos and spread them around. So I ask again what is the limit to spreading false conspiracies in which there is a financial incentive to do so? 

The other stuff you post is worthy of investigation and debate but I just want to narrow the focus, if we start getting into world control theories we'll go all over the place.

[Jacobsrw]

@LfcCharlie4 I can appreciate what you have mentioned.

However, you have oversimplified my argument and made many assumptions as a result.

Icke, is assumed awakened, I don’t at all believe he is, nor do many others in this work. As I stated earlier, this we will likely continue be divided on.

You also assume his theory is the most fitting, judging by your narrative here. This is not only an assumption but very a limited perspectival approach in understanding a very multi-dimensional nuanced issue. Many theories have been erected along with Icke, many of which are incongruent to his. What privileges him authority on the matter? Nothing but the bias of collective groups in allegiance to him.

Also you assume that he has sufficiently provided explanation for the current political climate. I do not agree. He has not accounted for many surrounding factors: eg. individuated citizen behaviour, geographical climate, psychological predispositions, contextual variations of resources, unconscious politics, uncontrolled historical governmental frameworks, gradualism and naturalism; all of which further enmesh and influence government practice.

His arguments all nest around a single statement “the government is a mind controlling cult”. This is not comprehensive argument for such an issue. You also assume I haven’t studied him. I am not basing my views of his present fanatics off one video. I’m basing it on interlinking information that supports his argument. Thus, I still do not agree with his overall contention, it’s overly simplistic thinking.

Also he has not substantiated many of his claims. Rewatch his pandemic videos and this is evident. 1. Isolation of the “COVID-19” bacterium, he claimed this had not been done, research papers prove otherwise. 2. Testimonial stories about wired government officials. 3. No specific information on the constituents of this “cult”, apart from ambiguous suggestions. And many other unsubstantiated claims. Please do further research into his credibility in this area, rather than judging it based on a history of conspiracy theory work. 

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[LfcCharlie4]

@Consept Okay, but again you’ve mentioned the small guy, but you’re forgetting who’s making the REAL money. 
 

These guys are making money yes, often their marketing tactics are very full on, but that’s common in a lot of business. 
 

You’re mentioning guys making 100,000s maybe millions, but missing that Gates will make Billions from the Vaccine, and Bezos is making more than ever as more and more small businesses shut down, again, if you want the point the finger, why start with those who are at least attempting to investigate the issues, instead of those causing the biggest wealth gap the world has ever seen. 
 

Believe me, I know these guys aren’t perfect at all. 
 

@Jacobsrw Icke has spoken about awakening many, many times before and has detailed exactly how and what happened, as well as the second awakening (common) that was the dropping into the heart during an Ayaschua ceremony. Based on how he speaks and these experiences, to me he is to some degree awake, of course I can’t verify this like we can’t with anybody. 
 

Icke’s argument is not that the Gov is a mind controlling cult, it is more the Government is actually global and national Govs are simply puppets for the most part. I am not saying he is 100% perfect at this, nor that he is 100% right, nobody is 100% right on these matters ever, for example I am not sold on his theory regarding the Virus not actually existing, however, based on my research I do feel it is certainly Planned& part of Agenda 21, as a means to further push things such as Vaccines, One currency, the cashless society, global rollout of 5G, tbe AI agenda and more. I think it is at least clear, tbis isn’t the deadly disease Gov propoganda would have us believe it was, and I think more and more whistleblowers will come out over the coming weeks. 
 

I would recommend this video, as a basic introduction to his work, it’s meant for people new to his stuff, and kind of like an introduction before reading the books, it’s also quite well put together.

What attracts me to Icke is that the message is always about Infinite Love and Awakening as the solution, and then building a society based from there, instead of the collective society we have today, which is very much far away from this. 

I encourage watching this, and then please discussing what is mentioned in here, of course Covid is not covered. 

 

[Consept]

8 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Consept Okay, but again you’ve mentioned the small guy, but you’re forgetting who’s making the REAL money. 
 

These guys are making money yes, often their marketing tactics are very full on, but that’s common in a lot of business. 
 

You’re mentioning guys making 100,000s maybe millions, but missing that Gates will make Billions from the Vaccine, and Bezos is making more than ever as more and more small businesses shut down, again, if you want the point the finger, why start with those who are at least attempting to investigate the issues, instead of those causing the biggest wealth gap the world has ever seen. 
 

Believe me, I know these guys aren’t perfect at all. 

Heres where i disagree, there isnt that much money in vaccines to warrant all this plandemic stuff, most pharma companies gave up on doing vaccines in the 80s, this is because of the cost and production time, with testing etc. Plus you only use a vaccine once, whereas other treatments can be ongoing. For perspective worlwide total sales of vaccines are 24 billion which represents 2-3% of the pharma industry, which is basically nothing, even in comparison to alternative medicines, homeopathy etc which is worth 34 billion. So what are we talking about here? http://www.boostoregon.org/arent-vaccines-just-moneymakers-for-pharmaceutical-companies If there was an expensive drug that they were trying to sell us as a cure that would make more sense. 

Amazon are profiting from this, but so are supermarkets and any other businesses that will thrive in these times, restaurants on deliveroo for example. Of course Bezos is too competitive in general but thats a separate issue. 

What we're looking it is are there people acting in bad faith and actively trying to exploit this situation such as Rose and i think from looking at it, I would say yes. Whats more insidious about what hes doing is that hes exploiting scared people and claiming its about freedom, while also spreading potentially dangerous information that could harm people or at least cause paranoia and division. So if Rose and whoever are not willing to debate these issues and their content properly or act responsibly, I can see why youtube took the action that they took. You might not agree but then as i asked before where is the limit for these theories?

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
What ever small amount is made per vaccine multiply this times 7 billion when they become mandatory and this could then be repeated every year or every other year and it will be mostly funded and paid for by the tax payers!

[Consept]

5 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@Consept
What ever small amount is made per vaccine multiply this times 7 billion when they become mandatory and this could then be repeated every year or every other year and it will be mostly funded and paid for by the tax payers!

I mean the uptake rate for vaccines is usually around 90% anyway, so youre saying all this for an extra 10%? which would be what maybe 4%, not even that, of what pharma make per year as a whole and still less than what alternative medicine makes per year. Add to that because of the financial crash Glaxosmithkline for example dropped to its lowest share price for 2 years, although its recovered now its still not back to where it was before the crash. So I dont really get the money making angle thats being proposed, is there anything other than speculation youre using to back this?

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept I think you underestimate what kind of money is in a vaccine that's basically like a blackmail and completely without alternative in the mainstream narrative. Just as an example each hospital gets 13k dollars in the USA for every single Corona positive patient and a further I think 39k? for people put on ventilators(which they do even when not necessary just for the money).
When you combine the risk and desperation of people with the sheer number, possibly you'll need to get that vaccine every single year along with new vaccines for different types of viruses and the research cost fades away at the second time obviously. You are just oversimplifying things here.

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@Consept I think you underestimate what kind of money is in a vaccine that's basically like a blackmail and completely without alternative in the mainstream narrative. Just as an example each hospital gets 13k dollars in the USA for every single Corona positive patient and a further I think 39k? for people put on ventilators(which they do even when not necessary just for the money).
When you combine the risk and desperation of people with the sheer number, possibly you'll need to get that vaccine every single year along with new vaccines for different types of viruses and the research cost fades away at the second time obviously. You are just oversimplifying things here.

Its not really an oversimplification its just that im not speculating. Even if you are right and lets say they double what vaccines currently make to 48 billion lets even say they make 10x more so around 240 billion its still not even 20% of total income from Pharma per year. Realistically the vaccine will most likely be taken by over 65s as it is now with flu shots, maybe more people will take this one but either way its not gonna make much money relative to other pharma activity. 

The extra payment for corona diagnosis is a payment by medicare to cover the extra costs in America, im assuming in places with socialised healthcare that will come from the government, so are we saying to make money the government is paying hospitals that it funds anyway extra money, who is benefiting in that situation? In the US in 2017 the average medicare would pay for someone who had a respiratory disease was 13k anyway going up to 40k depending on treatment, there is an extra 20% with covid but thats about it, not exactly a genius money making scheme that warrants losing billions in the economy.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

[Jacobsrw]

@LaucherJunge @LfcCharlie4 @Consept

Why assume the government is aware of what it is doing? Half the political sphere is governed by prehistoric primitive frameworks in which have not yet been amended due to the historical underpinnings.

I am far from convinced the government is a conscious indoctrination machine which is aware of the ramifications it creates. I am more convinced the government is a primitive system operating from homeostasis so as to avoid any change that threatens its survival. Politician have merely become pawns to this system, not governing operators of it.

All these claims of mockery regarding those in government undermine one simple truth: those who govern a system become governed by the very system that what was first created for them to govern. I feel this is what has happened here. The far majority of politicians operate on auto polite so as to avoid the underlying turmoil that lies beneath them. Which of course, creates unconscious civilians that further perpetuate an unstable government. It’s a cyclical system not a one way bottom down approach.

This seems more appropriate and probable than some sinister mechanistic agenda run by a select few of individuals out to subdue the globe, from which one could never ascertain full confirmation. After all, most individuals in politics are quite low on the scale of spiral dynamics, consumed but the very system they operate under. 

Donald Trump is one such great example of this, one who exemplifies a level of consciousness equivalent to a rock.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Jacobsrw

[Consept]

 

[Jacobsrw]

6 minutes ago, Consept said:

 

Hahaha love this guy and he actually does his research, funny that.

[Jacobsrw]

@Husseinisdoingfine Haha quite possibly, although careful what you put forth here many in this thread adhere to his theoretical concepts 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Jacobsrw