Some Osho Commentary on Gurdjieff's Insight about Women needing men for enlightenment

[SoonHei]

Yes, Gurdjieff has said that a woman cannot attain except through a man – and he is right. He is right because female energy differs from male energy. It is just as if someone says that only a woman can give birth to a child. A man cannot give birth to a child – he can give birth to a child only through a woman. The physical structure of the woman carries a womb; the physical structure of a man is without a womb – he can have a child only through a woman. And the same in reverse order happens in spiritual birth: a woman can get enlightened only through a man. Their spiritual energy differs also, just like their physical part. Why? Why is this so? And remember, this is not a question of equality or of inequality – this is a question of difference. Women are not lower than men because they cannot attain directly; man is not lower than woman because he cannot give birth to a child directly. They are different. There is no question of equality or inequality, there is no question of evaluation. They are simply different, and this is a fact.

Why is it difficult for woman to attain enlightenment directly? And why for man is it possible to attain enlightenment directly? There are two ways, only two, basically only two, which lead to enlightenment. One is meditation and the other is love. You may call them Gyana Yoga and Bhakti Yoga – the path of wisdom and the path of devotion. The basic ways are only two. Love needs another; meditation can be done alone. Man can achieve through meditation – that’s why he can achieve directly. He can be alone. He is alone deep down. Loneliness comes naturally to man. For a woman, to be alone is difficult, very difficult, almost impossible. Her whole being is a deep urge to love, and for love, the other is needed. How can you love if the other is not there? You can meditate if the other is not there – there is no problem. 

Woman, the female energy, reaches the meditative state through love; and the male energy reaches love through meditation. A Buddha becomes a great loving force – but through meditation. When Buddha came back to his palace, his wife was very angry, naturally, because for twelve years he had
not shown his face. One night he had simply disappeared, not even saying anything to her. While she was asleep he escaped like a coward.
The wife of Buddha, Yashodhara, would have allowed him. She was a brave woman. If Buddha had asked she would have allowed him; there would have been no problem about it, but Buddha would not ask. He was afraid something might go wrong, she might start crying and weeping or something.
But the fear was not because of her – the fear was deep down in himself. He was afraid it would be difficult for him to leave Yashodhara weeping and crying. The fear is always of oneself. It would be very cruel and he could not be so cruel, so it was better to escape while his wife was asleep. So he
escaped, and after twelve years he came back.

Yashodhara asked many things. One of the things she asked was: Tell me, whatsoever you have
attained there, could not you attain it here, living with me? Now that you have attained you can tell
me. It is said that Buddha remained silent. But I answer: Buddha could not have attained, because a
man deep in love...and he was deep in love with Yashodhara; it was a very intimate relationship.
If there had been no relationship with Yashodhara, if she had simply been a Hindu wife, no love
relationship, then Buddha could have attained even living with her. Then really there is no problem.
The other is there on the periphery, you are not related. If you are not related, the other is not – only
a physical presence moving on the boundary.

But Buddha was in deep love. And it is difficult for a man to attain meditation when he is in love –
this is the problem. Very difficult, because when he is in love, whenever he sits silently, the other
arises in the mind; his whole being starts moving around the other. That was the fear, that’s why
Buddha escaped.
Nobody has talked about it before, but Buddha escaped from that house, from the wife, from the
child, because he really loved. And if you love a person, then whenever you are occupied you may
forget him, but when you are unoccupied the other will come to the memory immediately, and then
there is no gap for the divine to enter. When you are occupied, working in a shop, or.... Buddha
was on his throne and looking after the affairs of the kingdom, then it was okay – he could forget
Yashodhara. But whenever he was not occupied, there was Yashodhara – the gap was filled by
Yashodhara and there was no passage for the divine to enter.
Man cannot attain to the divine through love. His whole energy is totally different from female energy.
First he should attain to meditation – then love happens to him. Then there is no problem. First he
must reach the divine, then the beloved also becomes divine.
After twelve years, Buddha comes back. Now there is no problem, now in Yashodhara the god is.
Before, Yashodhara was too much, and it was difficult to find the god. Now the god is totally there,
there is no space left for Yashodhara.
The totally opposite happens to a woman. She cannot meditate because her whole being is an urge
towards the other. She cannot be alone. Whenever she is alone, she is in misery. So if you say:
To be alone is bliss, to be alone is ecstatic – a woman cannot understand it. This emphasis on
being alone has existed all over the world because of too many seekers who are men – a Buddha, a
Mahavira, a Jesus, a Mohammed. They all went into loneliness, and they only attained in loneliness.
They created the milieu.
A woman, whenever alone, feels anguish. If there is a lover, even in her mind, she is happy. If
someone loves, if someone is loved – if love exists around a woman, it nourishes her. It is a
nourishment, it is a subtle food. Whenever a woman feels that love is not there, she is simply
starving, suffocating; the whole being shrinks. So a woman can never think that loneliness can be
blissful.
This female energy has created the path of love and devotion. Even a divine lover will do – there is
no need to find a physical lover. Krishna will do for Meera, there is no problem, because for Meera
the other exists. He may not be there, Krishna may just be a myth, but for Meera he is, the other
exists – and then Meera is happy. She can dance, she can sing, and she is nourished.
The VERY idea, the very notion, the very feeling, that the other exists and there is love, and a woman
feels fulfilled. She is happy, alive. Only with this love will she come to a point when the lover and the
beloved become one. Then meditation will happen.
For female energy, meditation happens only in the deepest merger of love. Then she can be alone,
then there is no problem – now she can never be alone – the beloved has become merged, now it
is within. Meera or Radha or Teresa, they all achieved through a lover – Krishna, Jesus.

This is my feeling, that whenever a male seeker comes to me he is interested in meditation; and
whenever a female seeker comes to me she is interested in love. She can be made interested in
meditation if I say that love will happen through it. But her DEEP desire is for love. Love is God for
a woman.
This difference has to be understood, deeply understood, because everything depends on it – and
Gurdjieff IS right. Female energy will love, and through love will flower the meditative state, the
samadhi. Satori will come, but deep down in the roots will be love and satori will become the flower.
For male energy, satori will be in the roots, samadhi will be in the roots, meditation will be in the
roots, and then love will flower. But love will be a flowering.
When female seekers come to me, it is bound to happen: they will feel more love, but then a physical
partner will be less satisfying. Whenever there is deep love, a physical partner will always become
unsatisfactory, because the physical partner can fulfill only the periphery, he cannot fulfill the center.
That’s why, in ancient countries like India, we never allowed love – we allowed arranged marriages.
Once love is allowed, the physical partner is going to be unsatisfactory sooner or later, and then
there will be frustration.
Now the whole West is disturbed. Now there will be no satisfaction at all. Once you allow love, then
an ordinary man cannot fulfill it. He can fulfill sex, he can fulfill the superficial, but he cannot fulfill
the deep, the depth. Once the depth is functioning, once you have disturbed the depth, only God
can fulfill – nobody else.
So when female seekers come to me, their depth is shocked. They start feeling a new urge, a new
love arising. Now their husbands or their boyfriends, their partners will not be able to satisfy it. Now
this can be satisfied only by a much higher quality being. This is going to be so.
So either your boyfriend, your husband, has to become more meditative, create higher qualities of
being...only then will he be fulfilling. Otherwise the relationship will break, the bridge cannot remain;
you will have to find a new friend. Or, if it is impossible to find a new friend – as it would have been
for Meera – difficult, then you have to love the divine. Then just forget the physical part – now it is
not for you.
The same happens to male seekers in a different way. When they come to me, they become more
meditative. When they become more meditative, the bridge between their old partners is broken,
becomes shaky. Now their girlfriend or their wife has to grow, otherwise the relationship is on the
rocks, it cannot be maintained.
Remember this, that all our relationships, so-called relationships, are adjustments. If one changes,
the adjustment is broken – for the better or for the worse, that is not the point. People come to me
and they say: If meditation brings higher qualities, then why is the relationship broken? That is not
the question. The relationship was an adjustment between two persons as they were. Now one has
changed, the other has to grow with them; otherwise there will be trouble, things will become false.
Whenever a man is here, he becomes more meditative. The more meditative he is, the more he
wants to be alone. The wife, the beloved, will be disturbed by it. If she is not understanding then she 

will start creating trouble – this man wants to be more alone. If she is understanding, then there is
no problem; but that understanding can only come to her if her love grows. If she feels more loving,
then she can allow this friend to be lonely, alone, and she will protect his loneliness. She will try to
see that it is not disturbed – this will be her love now.
And if this man feels...if Buddha feels that Yashodhara is protecting, safeguarding, seeing, caring,
that his meditation is not disturbed, that his silence is helped, then there is no need to escape from
this Yashodhara. But this happens only if Yashodhara’s love grows.
When a man’s meditation is growing, a woman’s love should grow. Only then can they keep pace,
and a higher harmony will arise and it will go on, higher and higher. And a moment comes when
the man is totally in meditation and the woman is totally in love – then only the PERFECT meeting,
then only the real, supreme orgasm between two persons. Not physical, not sexual – total! Two
existences meeting into each other, dissolving. Then the lover becomes the door, the beloved
becomes the door, and they both reach to the one. So whosoever comes to me should come
perfectly aware that it is dangerous to be near me. Your old arrangements will be disturbed – and I
cannot help it. I am not here to help your adjustments; that is for you to decide.

Edited May 2, 2020 by SoonHei

[SoonHei]

@cypres sure thing. 

But it's the type of energy for each and what the natural tendency of it happens to be. Makes sense. Just like the example of a woman giving birth and man 'relying' on her to be able to.

[Ananta]

@SoonHei

I can't even read your whole post.

Imo, it's rubbish ?.

I'm very surprised and disappointed you would post this.

[mandyjw]

I'd like to say it's complete sexist nonsense, but... not quite. Careful of some of the inferences though. 

I would guess that "man" and "woman" are defined more by "brain type" than actual gender, there's a trend that aligns with gender but not a rule. Paths are unique to the individual, so unique in fact that there are no individuals anyway. It's crucial to follow your heart, regardless of how that's "supposed" to look, to find your way back home.  

“Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself.” -Rumi

"Some people are worth melting for" -Olaf 

"All the world’s a stage, and all the men and women merely players" -Shakespeare 

[FredFred]

Give any women 30mg 5-MeO and she'll have a non-dual experience, period. There's no difference between men and women...

This post is completely absurd...

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, FredFred said:

This post is completely absurd...

??

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, Anna1 said:

@SoonHei

I can't even read your whole post.

Imo, it's rubbish ?.

I'm very surprised and disappointed you would post this.

easy fix, just stop identifying as a woman

Who says you're a woman except for yourself? And other's projection of your gender is their own bias?

Even easier fix: realize SoonHei is you. Why trust SoonHei when you can go to the source directly?

Edited May 2, 2020 by electroBeam

[Verdesbird]

is there sucha thing as an enlightened woman ? 

you guys have any records ?

i have head of conservative woman that are enlightened 

https://enlightenedwomen.org
 

what do you guys think 

[electroBeam]

2 minutes ago, Verdesbird said:

is there sucha thing as an enlightened woman ? 

you guys have any records ?

i have head of conservative woman that are enlightened 

https://enlightenedwomen.org
 

what do you guys think 

I think its impossible for a woman to become enlightened.

[Verdesbird]

2 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I think its impossible for a woman to become enlightened.

impossible is a strong word 

but what the historical records show us is that mostly its need a man to help to get there 

there are controversies 

[Ananta]

@Verdesbird @electroBeam

Lots of ignorance. I knew this thread would cause ridiculous posts.

peace out❤

 

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, Verdesbird said:

is there sucha thing as an enlightened woman ? 

you guys have any records ?

i have head of conservative woman that are enlightened 

https://enlightenedwomen.org
 

what do you guys think 

Oh Jesus. Oh. ohh... ohhhh... Jesus! 

15 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I think its impossible for a woman to become enlightened.

I'd take offense, but there's no such thing as an enlightened man or an enlightened woman. 

[James123]

@SoonHei lol. Men and women has no differences then the tree or stop sign. 

[Ananta]

This isn't going to go anywhere positive. 

[Verdesbird]

Just now, Anna1 said:

@Verdesbird @electroBeam

Lots of ignorance. I knew this thread would cause ridiculous posts.

peace out❤

I have better things to do.

just lets keep a open mind that there are controversies 

i do consider the possibility of a woman be enlightened by his own rescources alone

but thats just too rare that no ones knows about perhaps

[Ananta]

Locked for being absurd

[Inliytened1]

58 minutes ago, Verdesbird said:

is there sucha thing as an enlightened woman ? 

you guys have any records ?

i have head of conservative woman that are enlightened 

https://enlightenedwomen.org
 

what do you guys think 

Enlightenment transcends gender.  It is pure Consciousness.  Gender is a duality.