6 years of self-actualization was a waste of time

[StarStruck]

On 1-5-2020 at 10:29 AM, Stretch said:

About 6 years ago I discovered Actualized.org and became inspired by the concepts of enlightenment and self-actualisation. Gradually pursuit of these took over my life, as I focused ever more narrowly on consciousness work as a way to improve my life. Eventually, I let go of friends, relationships, careers, possessions, hobbies and interests. Did a lot of meditation, yoga, etc. Built a spiritual ego and did some spiritual bypassing, too. Had one awakening experience.

6 years down the line and I am depressed, lost, alone, purposeless and empty. Trying and failing to find a sustainable life purpose I’ve ended up in a much worse practical position than if I’d settled for something less ambitious, and now I've run out of the luxury to keep looking due to personal circumstances. Although my meditation at one point felt like it was significantly clearer, at this point I have to doubt if my concentration is really much better than when I started. I don’t feel any closer to truth, and have completely lost my playfulness, sense of humour and experience of fun along the way.

You have to take a LOT on faith with this work. The guidance isn’t presented as a dogma so much as a ‘try it and see for yourself’ thing. How long an experiment is reasonable to run, however, before lack of willingness to accept ‘it isn’t working’ betrays treating the guidance as dogma nevertheless?

I’ve wasted 6 years of my life on a totally pointless quest, I’m absolutely sick of it, and I’m leaving now to attempt to stitch my life back together again.

One more thing… I have to ask… Leo’s been doing this thing hard for a while now too, right. Let’s detach ourselves from our beliefs about enlightenment and self-actualisation for a mo and look at this objectively. Anyone else think his life looks a bit sad?

I feel like a lot of people will come to this position you described, sooner than later. I have been on this forum for couple of months and there are a lot of people who hold onto enlightenment. Pursue the ox like a zen devil and get trapped instead of letting go and transcending. When you are enlightened you continue life. Enlightenment is not about escapism. At least you are brave enough to make a thread about it. Some people will waste much more than 6 years so consider yourself lucky. What if you lost 12 years instead of 6? Hopefully some people will read this thread and save themselves. 

[Heaven]

Hey brother from another mother!

Wish u to find your way?

Life isn’t so complicated but the human mind makes it so.

I’m always surprised how much wisdom the people in this forum have. I saw ur comment on them and maybe just for a sec open yourself up to this advices. Cuz your way of thinking so far didn’t lead u to happiness so maybe it’s time to change it..

Not trying to be rude I just express my love❤️

[Guest]

Thanks to those who have responded with kindness, compassion and gentle encouragement for a reframing. There's some stuff to ponder on here for sure.

[RevoCulture]

@Jungian_Proxy   Appreciate the kind words and I'm on board with the spiraling expression leading us to be more dynamic in the identification of "I".  The "I" that has been dominated by primal biology and then the ego identity offering space to include the collective. 

Our society and culture reinforces, demands, the ego and primal biology of "I".   I am of the opinion that we could use some well trained yellow / turquoise people to conduct a social experiment inside of an "artificial" bubble.  Actually a project that I am working on. 

@Codrina Can't tell you how much it means to witnessed and spoken kindly towards.  If you resonated with those words you are most likely familiar with the highs and the lows that come with the territory.  Thank you.

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I feel like a lot of people will come to this position you described, sooner than later. I have been on this forum for couple of months and there are a lot of people who hold onto enlightenment. Pursue the ox like a zen devil and get trapped instead of letting go and transcending. When you are enlightened you continue life. Enlightenment is not about escapism. At least you are brave enough to make a thread about it. Some people will waste much more than 6 years so consider yourself lucky. What if you lost 12 years instead of 6? Hopefully some people will read this thread and save themselves. 

If you are doing enlightment for your own interest/agenda then better stop it. Is not about that.

The OP is complaning but he is not realizing that Spirituality is not self-improvement. It trascends it. It doesn´t make sense to say "I wasted x years of my live by doing spirituality! Oh man I lost so much experiences, meeting new people, girls...etc!" You should be ready to "waste" the rest of your living live if you go doing Spirituality serious. Of course "waste" is used in the language of "material things". I don´t see it as a waste. I see it as actually improving one´s life. But the OP measures life success in terms of achieving basica material stuff.

If you care about all of that stuff, then what are doing a practice which is intended to actually trascend and let go of all of that stuff? 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Javfly33

[StarStruck]

@Javfly33 that is in contradiction with spiral dynamics. Most people that come to actualized dot org are not zen masters. They in the lower stages. One can't just jump spiral dynamics stages. If you try, you will just fool yourself and people can fool themselves for a very long time. 

[dvdas]

@Codrina I'm not blaming anyone. I think you really missed my point. But I do appreciate the response

[Javfly33]

50 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

@Javfly33 that is in contradiction with spiral dynamics. Most people that come to actualized dot org are not zen masters. They in the lower stages. One can't just jump spiral dynamics stages. If you try, you will just fool yourself and people can fool themselves for a very long time. 

Spiral dynamics It´s not related to what I am saying.

You don´t need to be Buddha to be honest with yourself about why you are doing meditation or yoga.

Are you doing to be more confident in your life? To be more social or have sex? ...etc? To be more relaxed?

That´s OK, no here to judge, but then consider that maybe there are other practices more effective to accomplish that! You could maybe get more sex if you do pick up, or maybe start travel to meet new people, or maybe work with a good therapist some particular traumas or shadow work withouth cuesitoning your identity too much to overall reduce your stress or anxiety in life, rahter than putting all of your eggs on Spirituality.

Edited May 3, 2020 by Javfly33

[StarStruck]

@Javfly33 I think we are saying the same thing but from different perspectives. It has to do with paradigms. Everybody is stuck in their current paradigm. Somebody could tell me that meditation should be done for the purposes you tell me but that just goes right over my head especially if I'm needy as fuck. It has to do with spiral dynamics in the sense of one needs to fulfill their current needs before it can level up. By the way I agree that it is not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket. Perhaps the topicstarter can comment on that in how far he has done self-help.

Edited May 3, 2020 by StarStruck

[hyruga]

Come, listen to this:)

 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I see it as actually improving one´s life. But the OP measures life success in terms of achieving basica material stuff.

No (and I really didn't say that), I measure success in terms of improving my life, like you. My point is that I'm 6 years in and my life hasn't improved - quite the opposite. Would be convenient to discount my experience and attribute it to chasing material things, but I've actually been doing the complete opposite. I was ready to 'waste my entire life' - in fact, as I indicated, I literally did that. It caused me a lot of suffering. Perhaps you don't want to acknowledge that because it contradicts your worldview. So much for Leo's campaign against closed-mindedness!

Edited May 3, 2020 by Stretch

[Guest]

4 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@Javfly33 I think we are saying the same thing but from different perspectives. It has to do with paradigms. Everybody is stuck in their current paradigm. Somebody could tell me that meditation should be done for the purposes you tell me but that just goes right over my head especially if I'm needy as fuck. It has to do with spiral dynamics in the sense of one needs to fulfill their current needs before it can level up. By the way I agree that it is not a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket. Perhaps the topicstarter can comment on that in how far he has done self-help.

Not quite sure what you're asking... I've done a lot of self help in a lot of areas, some more effectively than others. I've been mostly focused on yoga in last couple of years, arguably to the point of spiritual bypass.

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, Stretch said:

No (and I really didn't say that), I measure success in terms of improving my life, like you. My point is that I'm 6 years in and my life hasn't improved - quite the opposite. Would be convenient to discount my experience and attribute it to chasing material things, but I've actually been doing the complete opposite. I was ready to 'waste my entire life' - in fact, as I indicated, I literally did that. It caused me a lot of suffering. Perhaps you don't want to acknowledge that because it contradicts your worldview. So much for Leo's campaign against closed-mindedness!

Ok, so maybe I really misinterpreted you.

In what term exactly your life has been opposite to improvement?

Have you gotten addicted, depressed, anxious...etc?

 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Javfly33

[StarStruck]

@Javfly33 so he didn’t disown self help in favor of enlightenment. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Ok, so maybe I really misinterpreted you.

In what term exactly your life has been opposite to improvement?

Have you gotten addicted, depressed, anxious...etc?

 

I’m rarely happy, I’ve lost my playfulness, sense of humour and experience of fun, I’ve lost interest in pretty much everything, I’ve lost the creative spark I used to have, I’ve got no friends or relationships and am lonely. Everything feels pointless and empty. This has happened gradually over several years.

[Felli]

1 minute ago, Stretch said:

 I’ve lost the creative spark I used to have

 

[Danioover9000]

I hope you get out of this rut your in. Been through worse, so hang in there.

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

@Leo Gura This is classy response.

On 01/05/2020 at 7:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

Firstly, it wasn't a waste of time. The lessons you learned will serve you for the rest of your life. It will keep paying dividends.

Secondly, it's important to do this work without making it a chore. It has to align with your passions. Don't do it if you aren't passionate about.

It sounds like this work is too advanced for you. You probably have lower stages of the Spiral to work on, which means Tier 1 teachings like basic self-help, biz, relationships, etc.

You won't be able to go for advanced spiritual work unless you take care of your more basic desires and burn through some karma.

The stuff I teach nowadays is extremely advanced and not suitable for many people who struggle with meeting basic needs.

Thirdly, there are much worse ways you could have used your time.

Fourthly, don't underestimate how much you grew in those 6 years. It's easy to forget how ignorant, selfish, and foolish you were back them. Growth happens and is then taken for granted.

Fifthly, you are allowed to have friends and relationships.

 

[Depersonilized]

@28 cm unbuffed Just a correction; Leo never worked at Bethesda. 

[UnconsciousHuman]

I hear you brother.

I think your problem is that you used self-actualization and spirituality as an excuse to not take on the responsibilities of creating an ecstatic life for yourself. 

This includes: Creating: money, meaningful relationships, fitness & health, a comfortable living environment, career, hobbies, etc...

 To self-actualize is to work on yourself and make real your potential, and you haven't done that in those areas. 

You don't need less self-actualization you need more of it. 

Spiritual practices should take up a portion of your life not all of it until you have settled those aspects of your life then you could start to take spirituality more seriously.

I recommend you leave the forum and Leo and pursue your own life. Keep doing spiritual practices but make sure they occupy a maximum of 1 hour a day, and the rest of your time should be spent on creating results when you have the results then focus more on the spiritual path.

It is easy to fall for the trap you've fallen in, I'm sorry to hear that and I think its a really sucky situation to be in, but there is only forward from this point on, so look ahead, fix your problems and create your dreams.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman