LEO'S ALIENATING RHETORIC

[Panos]

Hi everyone, and sorry for the click-baity title. Hope it worked cause I actually have something that could possibly be constructive to be talked about.

I wanna share some thoughts I've had lately that have been reenforced over time.

First of all I wanna tell you that I've been following the channel since 2016. I've watched maybe 80% + of the videos and know what all this is about. And frankly it has been extremely helpful and I mostly have feelings of gratitude that such a thing even exists, let alone it being for free. At this point I can honestly tell with no doubt that I see myself a changed person since 2016 and I owe it partly to this channel. 

But I, as a person, am beside the point of this post - just giving you a background to let you know I am very well acquainted with the channel and overall very positive about it, and not some ''outsider'' who stumbled upon Leo's recent videos and came here to make some noise. 

So as I said I've been watching the videos and lately, Leo has come up with lots of grandiose, pompous statements. I, as a well-acquainted viewer, have some context to receive them with little to no reactiveness cause as I've said I have the context that explains away the grandiose feel one might get from them. I am acquainted with the flavours, the nuances and connotations that words such as ''God'' have in Leo's vocabulary. In other words, I know the ''language game'' that is being played when Leo says ''I am God'' and other maybe more ''outrageous'' stuff. The problem is: people who stumble upon the videos of Leo do not. Or even if they do have some context for these statements from the general non-dual talk that the current culture provides , they still do not to the degree that someone who's followed this channel for years does. And what comes out of this, is people from the non-dual and the psychedelic community being alienated and averting from an otherwise hugely valuable source, that this channel is. And valuable, in half a dozen other dimensions, not just the spiritual one (spiral dynamics, life purpose, etc). 

Take for example the Adeptus Psychonautica guy. I knew of his channel before, and even though I haven't watched more than 4-5 of his videos, which btw I thought were very decent, I'm subscribed to it. He pretty much went through the kind of alienation that I'm describing above. And he's made two videos putting down this channel, to some extend. He seems to be trying to give a balanced reaction to actualised.org, and not take stuff completely out of context, strawman them etc... but still the channel is getting some bad reputation as if it's a cult, with some messiah guy on top, ego-gratifying himself in his online echo chamber.

the adeptus psychonautica criticisms:

Another angle, I wanna tackle this from is about what dynamic is being cultivated by the more grandiose, pompous utterances of Leo. I remember Ram Dass saying that he observed that, in his work as a psychotherapist, the roles themselves that each party of the ''transaction'' adopted, meaning on the one side the ''healer'' and on the other ''patient'', were a very limiting factor in the psychotherapeutic process. As long as Ram Dass would identify with the healer end of this transaction, it was reenforced that the other person would automatically play into the ''healer''-''patient'' dynamic and adopt the patient role. And this dynamic would become chronic and would prevent ''patients'' from getting over their ''patient'' identity. In parallel to this, you could say, that as long as the packaging of the teachings of Leo reflects, even partially, that of the messiah, the non-dual healer, the master, etc, people who are attracted to this channel will tend to automatically assume the other part of the equation and play the ''depended needy follower''. And that kind of psychology is exactly what a good cult is built upon. And it doesn't only take a stable ''teacher'' so that stuff doesn't turn into a cult. It's also depended on what kind of idiosyncrasies are attracted by said teacher.

 

My personal feelings about the recent videos: As I said, I have watched this channel enough to tune into the connotations of whatever Leo says, and explain away the occasional wackiness, however there is still a part of me that has put the last 6-12 months of the channel's content into a new mental category abbreviated by something like ''outlandish stuff that I should take with a grain of salt for now and focus on the ''work'' (spiritual) before assuming they're true''. Before all that, I had this channel categorised as a 100% legit source among many many others I've got. But nowdays for example, I would be quite reluctant to suggest it without a  ''grain-of'salt'' type intro to a newbie friend. For one, I wouldn't like them to stumble upon a random video, listen to some out of context messiah wackiness and then think I'm wacky, too, for listening to such stuff and suggesting it with no hesitation (and yes, I'm aware this is more petty, ego stuff on my part, but we're human and it's not bad to take humanness into account when it's about pr) and would not believe that it's gonna be healthy for a person that has little context to come across such ideas. This could partly be because much of the content is not suited for newbies. But also I'm not myself 100% convinced that all that Leo says is legit, and not outright delusional. I'm just trying to keep some balance between what ideas are floating in my head and what 1st person experiences I have that back the said ideas. And yes, ''I should shut up and go do more vipassana 10 days and dmt and self inquiry, etc, and then I'll know for myself''. And yes, ''all is LOVE, and all I need is stop caring about such PR little things and  love, love, love all you need is love''. I'm all with you about these things, I totally agree, for all I currently know. Indeed the bottom line is LOVE. But this post isn't about the bottom line, it's about practical PR stuff that could affect the spread of the message. And I feel there needs to be some space for this conversation, too as well as with the actual work. And from this perspective I'm having this scenario in my head, that if I and other people who try to approach this non-dual thing in a non-delusional way are alienated, then most of the people who end up staying in this channel, might end up being the wackiest among us who want to fill their heads with outlandish, non-critically/empirically tested ideas. (I'm not reffering to anyone particular, I don't generally visit the forum I don't know if there are specific people who are like that). 

So to wrap this up, all I'm saying is that the non-dual message can probably be shared without the pompous tone. I understand that Leo may be demonstrating how confident he is about this message, how much he can stand behind the words he's uttering. And that's a good thing and he probably feels authentic doing it. The friction starts where this message is interpreted as megalomaniacal, messianic etc. Whether this is people just projecting their own stuff on Leo or not, is beside the point. For all I know Leo might be so ahead of the curve from the current non-dual culture, that he ends up being perceived as a lunatic. The point is that the non-dual message can be transmitted in a spiral-dynamics-informed way, taking into account who's receiving it and sort of adjusting to it. Not to the degree that's watered down, of course.

I don't know, guys... just some quarantine thoughts filling the gap of my current do-nothingness. BTW this message is not targeted directly to Leo only. I don't actually feel, as I'm writing all this that I'm writing it to Leo himself. It's more like I'm putting my thoughts down, and wanting to share them to see if any people are on the same page. I can't even say that I'm totally aligned with all the above thoughts. They certainly are just a fraction of the thoughts I have on the channel. I can tell Leo is putting an admirable amount of work into this all, and probably it's mostly work that is not visible. He is also brave enough to go through these experiences in a very public way. I honestly wish all the best and all the luck to him and all the Love  and to everyone here. and to all creatures. peace

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by Panos

[Verdesbird]

not every leos criticism is intelligent 
 

heres one midle of the road..
 

 

[Adam M]

It comes down to this.

Are you open-minded?

If you actually care about understanding reality. You will watch Leo with an open mind.

His message is crystal clear for those who admit that they do not know.

If you're not ready yet... then you'll project your arrogance upon the teacher (as I've seen done countless times).

If your soul is ready to awaken. You'll study Leo's vids w an open mind along with all of the great sources that he recommends.

Otherwise, you'll project your own shallowness of mind onto the teacher, and you won't give the content another glance.

[Forestluv]

The fellow in the video starts off by saying how he gets everything Leo says about nonduality, Oneness, psychedelics and the universe experiencing itself. He says it’s all stuff he’s heard before. He then goes on to show that he lacks understanding and embodiment. . . 

At the personal level, his views are very rational and practical. Yet he lacks understanding at a transpersonal level. He will be stuck here because he assumes he has understanding that he lacks. And what he lacks, he perceives as “too far”. Indeed it is “too far” for him. Going “far” requires a high level of curiosity, willingness and surrender. It isn’t for the faint of heart. 

[Roy]

Leo has obviously thought about this himself, and how he wants to portray his message and content. It looks like he has opted for not really filtering his language or putting huge disclaimer sections in the videos (though it would probably do them some good, it's not like the videos are short anyways lol).

It's just the way he's chosen to go about it. I know people may not like it but let's be honest, it's doubtful it's going to change unless there is some kind of serious drama or backlash, but even that is unlikely because he's insulated himself from the world pretty heavily.

It all comes down to the individual - are you getting value out of the content and is it working for you? Depending on the answer to that question you either leave or stick around.

[allislove]

That's the perfect example of doing youtube critic without deep research on the topic.
You can't understand knowledge which Leo shared with us by watching few Leo videos.

It's like I read two pages of the book and I think I understand the whole book, then I write a book critique.

Edited May 1, 2020 by dimitri

[Galyna]

Been with this channel for about five or six years, before even this forum was created. However, only recently the weirdo stuff has started to happen. I don’t know but my perception has changed. A lot of people I know told me that I have changed. Honestly, it is a bit scary to go that deep. I feel like I am losing my mind. But I can’t stop it. Deep inside I know something great should come out from this. Don’t get disappointed and discouraged. The main shift will happen as soon as you allow it to come into your life. The question is do you have enough courage to face it? 
It is scary and hard, basically you can’t cling to any notion, and that leaves you without any support. When your mind starts to constuct any meaning, it takes courage to see through the illusory nature of the thought. Feels like you are going crazy. You are embarrassed to show this channel to other people. I wish I would have this luxury, I mean to think this way. As soon as I start thinking about other people , I begin to jeopardize the objective world and all the implications. See? I don’t have any backup anymore, everything I have been building for years just ruins in a split of the second like a shattered glass. 
But good luck with your quest ? 

I hope you will find some agreement and align your mind with feelings. Good post, I like how you introspect. ?

Edited May 2, 2020 by Galyna

[Jacobsrw]

@Panos I appreciate what you’ve written here. I resonate with some of what you’ve proposed. In that, Leo purports many statements that do require contextualisation and can be easily misled. In the past I’ve wondered why he hasn’t extended efforts to disclaimer each video with the necessary context. However, I’ve come to realise, that’s not his duty. His duty is, in his perspective it would seem, is to share some of the most valuable insights to man in the most transparent way possible.

In such efforts, he sacrifices this by falling to heavy critique. Although really, I feel much of the criticism he receives comes from a place of projection and insecurity. Leo points to the very things we do not wish to explore. Our very own nature and existence at large. One who does not explore these areas will get extremely uncomfortable hearing Leo’s propositions. 

Not for the faint hearted, but that’s the style in which he presents. It’s not for everyone. It’s for those dedicated to the path. And those who aren’t, will likely not get much from it to begin with due to the inability to commit. Appreciate what is available, utilise what you can and discard the rest.

[Panos]

@Galyna  Sounds a bit familiar to be honest. Like sometimes I wish I could go back to finding meaning and purpose in things I used to, just because it's practical and in line with coping with society.However this meaninglessness for me is not that heavy all the time. Hope it's not interfering with your life in a radical way... we need to be giving ourselves time for proper integration of the non-dual thing. Best of luck to you!

3 hours ago, Galyna said:

As soon as I start thinking about other people , I begin to jeopardize the objective world and all the implications. See? I don’t have any backup anymore, everything I have been building for years just ruins in a split of the second like a shattered glass. 

 

[Panos]

Hey guys, thanks for taking the time to read my long post give me some indication of where you're at with it. I've read your responses and I'm in agreement with what I've read. Nothing to add. It seems it's all a balance between open mindedness and watching our step for delusion. Both of these two are important. And the latter sometimes causes triggering and projections of the type where people are too quick to call out messiahs.

all best to you guys

[tenta]

In no way egotistical? He is saying the Leo avatar is superior, look at that live awakening video if you disagree.

Edited May 2, 2020 by tenta

[John Doe]

@Panos Just take what is useful for you out of all this - the videos, the forum etc., ignore the drama and nonsense, and simply get down to work. That's it. All of this is free anyway. I personally have some skepticism with regards to the 5-MeO-DMT claims. But I choose to ignore it and cut Leo some slack because he is already providing us all of this amazing stuff.

Note: When I say get down to work, I personally mean old-school Kriya Yoga/meditation/devotion. I'm not going to take psychedelics to awaken, I feel like they're some kind of 'cheat-code', and that God would be mad at me if I did that. 

[Joshe]

A very valid and cautious critique. Skepticism is the guide to truth. 

But surely you understand what he's saying MIGHT be possible. It might also be possible that he's full of shit.

It seems to me that his willingness to cater to skeptics has decreased as he is putting a standard in place that if you want to take part in or progress further with his teachings, then you must have put in ample spiritual work and he's saying that those on the edge or half-assers are free to go if they want. My sense if that he's spent countless hours preaching the merits of open-mindedness for the sake of people opening up to radical ideas but the teaching of open-mindedness is just a means to an end and the real work can only happen once that teaching is embodied. 

Leo KNOWS that as he evolves, his followers and popularity will decrease and he KNOWS that his teachings will become more cult-like, which is why he previously tried to innoculate followers from it. He KNOWS that he will sacrifice worldly pleasures and be subject to intense rational scrutiny. He knows many followers will fall off. He also knows the courage it takes for a spiritual seeker to even entertain his teachings and he doesn't take that lightly. I don't know Leo personally but I've seen enough to KNOW what I'm saying is the case and even if he's full-on bat-shit, his previous record is more than enough, many times over, to at least entertain the most absurd claims he might make. The subject matter is such that nothing is outside the realm of possibility. 

Is the worry for his mental health or to defend Truth?

If he's off his rocker, he needs no pitty. If seekers are misled, it was meant to be. Carry on

Edit: if it turns out to be he's off his rocker, then we can and should dive deeper into it but until then... “All great truths begin as blasphemies.”

Edited May 2, 2020 by Joshe