What is the appeal of Jordan Peterson? Why do people love him so much?

[PenguinPablo]

@Parththakkar12 careful who you condemn. you know what they say about homophobics 

[Parththakkar12]

6 minutes ago, tenta said:

That could be stage green too where a more loose way of reasoning is used, with more relating.

I think this happens when Orange isn't well-integrated. Green people can be very logical and hard-nosed. Watch TED talk speakers cite study after study to support their claims of social injustice and propose systemic solutions.

[Hansu]

18 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

 Watch TED talk speakers cite study after study to support their claims of social injustice and propose systemic solutions.

With social injustice, do you mean actual social injustice or claims that oppose the social justice warrior mindset?

Please link an example here, I don't recall a TED talk that promotes social injustice

[Derek White]

6 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Yes, there is this sense of us vs them

All tier one stages have "us vs. them" and "good vs. bad" mentality. Stage green feminists hate conservatives and racists. It makes perfect sense to me why people listen to JP other than because they hate SJW. If you ask an average person if murder is evil they would undoubtedly say yes. He provides an alternative to nihilism: realizing that everything is meaningless.

It takes a lot for people to get to tier two, stage yellow. To get to tier two, you have to realize everything is meaningless, realize the limitations of logic and rationality, shift perspectives, integrate emotions, realize consciousness and much more. Most people are not able to realize that there is no evil or what thinking even is. Forget about average people, most scientists don't even know what consciousness is!

If you don't realize meaninglessness: (1) you will fall back to your cultural/religious background to provide structure for your life or (2) unconsciously create your own meaning. 

If you realize meaninglessness: (1) you consciously create your meaning or (2) you become depressed as you view meaninglessness as 'negative' in which case you don't understand meaninglessness fully. The latter is what JP and his followers fear the most and want to avoid at all costs. 

A person who realizes meaninglessness is a danger to society. Jordan has created a shadow of meaninglessness. 

[Parththakkar12]

8 minutes ago, Hansu said:

With social injustice, do you mean actual social injustice or claims that oppose the social justice warrior mindset?

Please link an example here, I don't recall a TED talk that promotes social injustice

I mean general problems in society, like failing relationships, high divorce rates, etc. They are very statistics-oriented and their solutions always pertain to stuff like 'Based on these statistics, we should make these changes in the education system' or 'We should change our attitudes towards this specific thing'. It's using logic and rationality to have more of a social consciousness.

[Hansu]

15 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I mean general problems in society, like failing relationships, high divorce rates, etc. They are very statistics-oriented and their solutions always pertain to stuff like 'Based on these statistics, we should make these changes in the education system' or 'We should change our attitudes towards this specific thing'. It's using logic and rationality to have more of a social consciousness.

Yeah, the mindset of numbers and statistics are a problem with academics. Luckily amount of qualitative research has been in growth for 20 years, so maybe one day we can get rid of the "numbers and statistics only" mindset. Especially when it comes to social research which really cant be measured like that.

Finland's UBI experiment is a great example of how you can fuck up human research by trying to quantify everything. They basically just quantified how many of the long-term unemployees under UBI find jobs in 2 years compared to a control group. Moronic experiment that could never have succeeded.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Hansu

[Leo Gura]

@Parththakkar12 The point is your logic serves your ego too. You two both have that in common.

[Leo Gura]

@Parththakkar12 The point is your logic serves your ego too. You two both have that in common.

[Parththakkar12]

I like to listen to people who have clear points to make with clear reasons. When that is the case, you can argue with them, debate with them, question them and understand their position well enough from a logical perspective. When someone is just preaching what they believe without any logical context though, you cannot come up against that. That's a very scary and threatening situation for an independent thinker to be in. Preaching as in 'Clean up your room. Take responsibility for your life. Be someone everyone can count on.' There is a difference between having logical context/backing for what you're saying, and having logical-sounding rationalizations/justifications once you've proclaimed the absolute truth.

It is important to get behind this and expose the reality that the backing isn't logic or reason, it's indoctrination. It is not an accident that Stage Blue sees questioning as an 'insult to authority'. I can feel that JP fans will get very defensive the moment I question what he says for this reason.

You may ask me 'Why are you bothering yourself with JP? You don't have to listen to him.' I like exploring collective ego behavior and why they do what they do, and this case was very weird to me at first. Everything I'm doing is a part of my study on collective ego.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

clear points to make with clear reasons.

This is all relative.

Quote

I like exploring collective ego behavior and why they do what they do, and this case was very weird to me at first. Everything I'm doing is a part of my study on collective ego.

Have you hear of Fox News? If JP riles you up this much, Fox News will keep you occupied for a hundred years

[Parththakkar12]

Blue doesn't admit that! Blue doesn't account for that, Orange does. It is absolute from Blue's perspective, not Orange/Green.

Blue doesn't care about forming a consensus, cuz it believes it already has the absolute truth! Now the quest is to integrate all perspectives, but the way to do it is to preach its own perspective, not understand other perspectives and integrate them.

To be fully clear, I'm not demonizing JP here. Just separating the wheat from the chaff.

[Parththakkar12]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Have you hear of Fox News? If JP riles you up this much, Fox News will keep you occupied for a hundred years

Interestingly I was just starting to find parallels between JP and Fox News! My image of JP previously, according to what people say about him, was this 'learned college professor who is very hard-nosed and does research in sociology'. It was very jarring to me when I watched his videos and it was a big 'expectation vs reality moment'.

[Derek White]

42 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

I like to listen to people who have clear points to make with clear reasons. When that is the case, you can argue with them, debate with them, question them and understand their position well enough from a logical perspective.

Do you realize Leo does none of that?

Logic is flawed.

[Bittu]

People need a sense of security and JP talks with conviction. Often the people who actually know how little they know can lack self confidence, and the less developed guys can have a false sense of confidence.

[Leo Gura]

JP does say intelligent and insightful things. I've gleaned insights from him. It's just that his worldview is quite twisted up by his ego and shadow. You have to be very selective and not fall for his right-wing meta-narratives. But some of his psychology lectures are good.

[Alexop]

The be honest I was attracted to Peterson because I saw the excess of green in where I lived back then(Sweden). Listening to him was a backlash to the pathological part of stage green, but after listening with an open mind to him, he was not that appealing anymore. Of course stage green can make mistakes, they are pioneering the society, implementing stuff that nobody knows if it will work or not. Making the society better req experiments that can sometimes fail. Now I don`t buy into the bullshit of those who criticize the nordic countries, Canada and so on. They make mistakes, but I don`t care, they`ll solve them, we have to respect them for the courage of leading humanity further into the future. JP appeals to people`s frustations, especially the frustrations of men not finding the women they need, it is much easier to listen to a guy who excuses their failure of finding women than fixing the problem. His "word salad" is like music to the ears of the ego.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Alexop

[Cepzeu]

You can glean some insights from him if you need them at that time. He says some valuable things occasionally. But there will always be some followers who follow for the sake of following, irrespective of what he says. Just like there are people who blindly follow Leo without questioning him. 

Sometimes when I'm really down, I can watch a motivational JP video. Something as simple as 'clean your room' doesn't occur to you when you spend so much time pursuing higher things and you neglect order in your life. A bit of positive emotions from his videos can help boost you up to go and take action to ground yourself. And once you do, you can let him go for a while, you don't have to get caught up in the 80% of his stuff which is delusional. But there will always be a group of people who do. We are emotional creatures, not logical ones.

You can be logical, but realise that will mostly be from a standpoint of being emotionally attached to your ego. You feel proud and happy from being a logical and intellectual person, as do I and many others. But don't make a shadow out of being dumb, illogical, and airy-fairy. These are grounded more in the body rather than the mind, and accessing a state where you are not thinking logically, but are relaxed and free-flowing, and going with the moment, and moving your body can be beneficial as a balance to logical thinking in my experience.

[Roy]

Polarization is such a plague these days, ugh. Why is it always love or hate for every teacher? Nobody cares what you think about Jordan Peterson. Just take what lessons you can and leave the rest.

[belen]

 

minute 6.36 love it 

[Zanoni]

I did learn a few things about our collective shadow from him. Not being popular with the kids and dominance hierarchy are a few themes i remember. He does understand these things very well but confuses it with being the reality. A good example of this is his opinion of the Bible. In one of his videos  the old testament fits his worldview while his attitude of the new testament is different. .I hope he gets glimpses of the transcended so his teachings would evolve. Blessings to him and his audience.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Zanoni
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