How is it possible that Leo and Ralston disagree?

[James123]

@Leo Gura 

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You should know this: I have never had a panic attack in my life. Until the first time I look 5-MeO-DMT. And I've never had one since. But that first time.... I learned what a panic attack is. I overcame it by surrendering.

A 5-MeO-DMT breakthrough is the most shocking and freaky thing that will ever happen in your life. It is pure mindfuckery. You will be so mindfucked you will not even understand how such a mindfuck is possible. It is an impossible mindfuck, yet you will be right in the middle of it.

I hope you like a good skullfucking by God, cause you're gonna get it

Do you mean the insight that you are to powerful and alone, everything is you, thats the reason why you created the ego, because of purpose of duality is satisfaction and love. God loves to see its duality to satisfy itself that it is not alone.  Love is the bridge between duality to non duality. Thats why all is one, because both sides complete each other. If god side never realize duality, It will never be understand that it is god. Thats why we created ourselves as a human now. God must create something separate from it in order to be a god, because in non duality everything is god. Such as , if cold is not exist warm can never be exist, if evil not exist goodnesses can never be exist. Thats the reason why many people must not know about they are God, because if everyone knows this knowledge it can never be duality. Because of that evil must be exist in entire civilization? I was the universe, my head was at last top of the infinity and feed was bottom of infinity. These were all the insights i got as a god on shrooms. Maybe i am so dramatic. Lol

Edited April 28, 2020 by James123

[zeroISinfinity]

Yeah imagine world if all Self Realized.Outmost perfect Heaven.

Yeah Jed is right it's  not "luxury" to be that way. It's shitload of ignorance and suffering. 

Lavender is cool. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Leo Gura]

31 minutes ago, Virtually said:

Infinity includes the possibility in which you become infinity. But you were the whole time

It also includes ever deeper degrees of infinity beyond whatever infinity you have reached.

Quote

You can lose it precisely because it's a relative state. Infinity must include both possibilities.

You can understand infinity, but Infinity itself can't be a distinction. It is all distinctions.
God can understand he is God, precisely because he can also NOT understand that, as you say. But it is infinity/god/nothing at all times, God loves himself infinitely whether you experience that or not.

So in that sense satori IS a state, and it's not infinity, to the extent that every-distinction is and is not infinity itself.

I would be cautious with Ralston's claim and clarify what "knowing" you're everything all the time means. As he sais chapter 9 of genius of being you can't survive within "no context". So he goes on to say that you can create a new context for experience that is inclusive of the understanding retained from the awakening. Sounds like what embodiment is about to me, and not "direct experience all the time".

It's difficult talking about such things because our language is relative and starts to spin its wheels in mud.

13 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

@Leo Gura

It just sounds like you say the Absolute is a state, which it isn’t. It is present in all states. It is the container of all states. It is the unchanging and unrelative.

Again, language starts to break down at this level. You could call it a state or all possible states. Depends on how you define state and other terms in your worldview.

Of course the Absolute is all there is, but most people aren't conscious of the fact that their experience is Absolute. To be conscious that your experience is the Absolute you must be in the proper state which allows you to recognize it as such. If you're not in this case, the Absolute is still here, but you don't know it as such, and therefore you ain't awake.

It's not quite right to say that the Absolute is unchanging because it's also changing all the time. If the Absolute is unchanging, then what is changing? Something other than the Absolute? That is absurd. So Absolute can't be separate from change.

21 minutes ago, James123 said:

@Leo Gura 

Do you mean the insight that you are to powerful and alone, everything is you, thats the reason why you created the ego, because of purpose of duality is satisfaction and love. God loves to see its duality to satisfy itself that it is not alone.  Love is the bridge between duality to non duality. Thats why all is one, because both sides complete each other. If god side never realize duality, It will never be understand that it is god. Thats why we created ourselves as a human now. God must create something separate from it in order to be a god, because in non duality everything is god. Such as , if cold is not exist warm can never be exist, if evil not exist goodnesses can never be exist. Thats the reason why many people must not know about they are God, because if everyone knows this knowledge it can never be duality. Because of that evil must be exist in entire civilization? Lol these were all the insights i got as a god on shrooms. 

It took me many trips to get those insights. I got no insights in my first trip.

[Virtually]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not quite right to say that the Absolute is unchanging because it's also changing all the time. If the Absolute is unchanging, then what is changing? Something other than the Absolute? That is absurd. So Absolute can't be separate from change.

I like to say "Nothing changes". Get it?

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Virtually said:

I like to say "Nothing changes". Get it?

Yes, that's cute. I don't disagree. And yet, something changes. Get it?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

It is the relative content that changes. Not the absolute. The absolute is absolutely still and timeless, has no form at all, and is everpresent. It is not a ‘crazy experience’ because it is not an experience. 

The absolute and relative are one. The relative is an appearance in the absolute.

Now as the absolute, are you identified with form/relativity or are you resting as yourself?

There is a deeper level than this because your Absolute is now separate from the relative, from the form, from the change. But the Absolute is not merely formless, it is also identical to form, relativity, and change.

Form IS myself. It makes no sense to differential form from formless. I am ONE, not two. Everything that changes is me.

[James123]

@Leo Gura i got everything at 10 gr and felt like lived million years. My personality entirely changed in a night and homeostasis never came back as old me. I became a different person in one night. Thats why i lost my mind  for couple months. It felt like entire universe (Duality) was screaming as love and God. That love is created the god but at the same time created by god. Thats why god is LOVE and love is god. It demonstrated that everything is based on love and hugged by love. These insights destroyed me. lol

Edited April 28, 2020 by James123

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

@Leo Gura i got everything at 10 gr and felt like lived million years. The trip was 15 hours nonstop. My personality entirely changed in a night and homeostasis never came back as old me. I became a different person in one night. Thats why i lost my mind  for couple months. Lol. 

That's quite impressive!

Tell that to Ralston and see if he'll believe you

I don't find it hard to believe.

[Virtually]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It also includes ever deeper degrees of infinity beyond whatever infinity you have reached.

Infinity to the infinity times infinity. Sure, that's the scope of reality, that's the scope of relativity. You can go on for and ever and that still would not be enough. But I didn't go that far

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, that's cute. I don't disagree. And yet, something changes. Get it?

Noo, I thought I found the final formula, but here you come...

Edited April 28, 2020 by Virtually

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Meta-Man said:

I just said the Absolute and relative are one and the same.

But as the absolute you don’t need to identify/lose yourself in the changing relative phenomena. When there is zero identification with form that is enlightenment. 

Yes fine. But there's more.

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Virtually said:

Infinity to the infinity times infinity. Sure, that's the scope of reality, that's the scope of relativity. You can go on for and ever and that still would not be enough

But relativity and Absolute are one, so this distinction is moot.

Quote

Noo, I thought I found the final formula, but here you come...

Let's dance

[Leo Gura]

1 minute ago, Meta-Man said:

The Absolute is the Absolute Ground of Reality. No further

Meh... Infinite always has a further

There is no ground.

[Virtually]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But there's more.

God... I can only imagine

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

But relativity and Absolute are one, so this distinction is moot.

Yep

[Derek White]

@Leo Gura  Leo! What is intuition?! Have your views changed on it after 30 days break?!

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Further mean more. Which can mean less, which is relativity

There are places where words cannot go and fingers cannot point.

[Virtually]

@Meta-Man It's like Kant is wrong and right at the same time

[Virtually]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, James123 said:

@Leo Gura i got everything at 10 gr and felt like lived million years. My personality entirely changed in a night and homeostasis never came back as old me. I became a different person in one night. Thats why i lost my mind  for couple months. It felt like entire universe (Duality) was screaming as love and God. That love is created the god but at the same time created by god. Thats why god is LOVE and love is god. It demonstrated that everything is based on love and hugged by love. These insights destroyed me. lol

Sounds life-changing.

Were you still able to function when you said you lost your mind? Given that you didn't fall back to your old ways

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Tell that to Ralston and see if he'll believe you

I think he'd dismiss that as a subjective state ahah

Edited April 28, 2020 by Virtually

[Dino D]

When i wrote on this forum years ago that enlightenment is a state, which was my inside made with just logic and thinking... it was worthless and not recognized, thas how dogmatic you all are

 

It was simple reasoning... if being awake/enlightened is a realization if it is always there you should be always able to see it or to get it... the experienced guys here experienced it over 100 times, some over 1000 times, and youre still in ,,a problem state" where you just can not be englightened... so it's a state, its a state achieved by twitching your mind, meditating, drugs, or by accident, but its a state... its there then its gone...

 

now Leo says it, and its deep and truth, and a super 5meo dmt deep inside, super advanced, beyond ralston, but when a normal guy says the obvious he gets debunked (like me from leo and you guys years ago), its hard to link to post, it was years ago when i reasoned like that many times here...

[Dino D]

@Meta-Man why cant you be right now in a realized being, in the truth, why cant you see it, why do you have to meditate hard, take drugs etc, even if you saw the truth a lot of times before... why cant you be fully consciuouss of it by will...

[Artaemis]

@Leo Gura Love you  ❤️

Edited April 28, 2020 by Artaemis