How is it possible that Leo and Ralston disagree?

[Nak Khid]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Quiet!

Just do a larger dose.

Stop thinking about death. It doesn't exist.

[Virtually]

@Nak Khid 

About the video: I don't think the guy is on point. That's not something I am concerned about. You realized you're god? fine. Is that true? Because that's what matters. You can make an as outrageous claim as you want, as long as you're not fooling yourself. How can I know you're fooling yourself? I go there and I verify that, which means that I either prove it true or false.

You can go around claiming you're god, but what that really means is what matters. There is more to it than what the guy in the video portrays it to be

Given what Leo claims about god (especially god = you = reality. Nothing new under the sun. just look at Giordano Bruno and lesser mystics from history), the difference between his teachings and other spiritual teachers is only in terms of depth/breadth/degree

Edited April 27, 2020 by Virtually

[WHO IS]

But in the end it doesn't change anything worthy. We still gonna suffer being in this human/animal bodies. Diseases, pain, hunger etc. 

Realizing that you are God and then not being able to do with such reazaliton, what's the point? The "fool" who lived his entire life however he wanted gonna die one day and realize it as well. 

[Nak Khid]

6 minutes ago, Virtually said:

@Nak Khid 

 You can make an as outrageous claim as you want, as long as you're not fooling yourself. How can I know you're fooling yourself?

I see

 

[Nahm]

@WHO IS

1 minute ago, Meta-Man said:

The Truth will reveal to you that you are NOT IN the body. The difference that makes is beyond understanding.

⬆️

[Nahm]

@Meta-Man ?

[zeroISinfinity]

30 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

- Philippians 4:7

Only if you knew you are dreamin' that. 

[wordsforliving]

@Nak Khid  Your agenda peaks through on this forum, but may appear too subtle for many to catch onto unfortunately.  Everyone has the ability to discern and think for themselves. It's not up to you to steer people clear of someone (Leo) or something you think is wrong or should be warned against.  A lot of people do have bias against drugs or psychedelics.  But we are here trying to serve our intuition without having to sift through bias agendas.

[Nak Khid]

 

32 minutes ago, wordsforliving said:

@Nak Khid  Your agenda peaks through on this forum, but may appear too subtle for many to catch onto unfortunately.  Everyone has the ability to discern and think for themselves. It's not up to you to steer people clear of someone (Leo) or something you think is wrong or should be warned against.  A lot of people do have bias against drugs or psychedelics.  But we are here trying to serve our intuition without having to sift through bias agendas.

The topic of this thread is Ralston and he has a bias against them (if bias is the right word)  and asking "How is it possible that Leo and Ralston disagree?"   But it is very clear if you look at the letter, everybody has an agenda

 

However the opinion of Adeptus Pyschonautica, the video I posted is a channel focusing on plant medicines such as ayahuasca, and psychedelic experiences, his intro is here.  

Look at the threads that are currently up on the main page there are mainly opinions "agendas" going on

Leos last video was about being open minded. That means look at his agenda and others agendas

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Nak Khid

[ShivaShakti]

@Virtually I just read the dialogue and watched some of Peter's interview with Leo. What I've gathered here is Leo is trying to further fill his cup in order to become enlightened, when he'd do better trying to empty it. Becoming conducive to enlightenment is more about undoing ignorance, unlearning everything, until all that is left is an availability, a possibility to receive truth, as opposed to adding more layers on top of what you think you already know. I spent huge amounts of time imagining what it might be like to be completely lacking in an ability to know anything, lacking an ability to think, to be completely dumb to the point I didn't even know a language, and therefore couldn't imagine or access memory.  This smile dude is legit enlightened and is handing out some good advice.

Edited April 27, 2020 by ShivaShakti

[Nak Khid]

.

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Nak Khid

[ShivaShakti]

@Nak Khid Thanks, but yeah I read it before I made my previous post 

[Virtually]

10 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

I recommend you look at this letter, page 15-16.  I posted only a portion of it and the other half of it pertains to various spiritual topics which Leo has carefully written out and numbered and Ralston replies to.  This is a bit more thought out form both parties. They discuss Mahasamadhi, God and other topics

https://mcusercontent.com/8a146e2bfe98efdd8c326d97a/files/08332a98-370d-44da-86ff-2c04a3ff1858/CHNL_Summer_2020.pdf?mc_cid=f12b90ff1c&mc_eid=3667cfd58d

 

Lol, it's the letter that gave birth to this whole conversation

[Nak Khid]

My bad I thought ShivaShakti hadn't read it just the video but they did

 

[Consept]

Interesting thread, I think it mirrors some of the criticisms others on the the forum including myself have put to Leo previously. But let me also say its not really fair to pick holes at him as he is also on his journey and I guess by the nature of Leo's work it's very easy to criticise as we consume his content and hear from him a lot. A lot of people put him on a pedestal which then leads to backlash when they finsld he's human too. 

In regards to the topic the answer in my opinion is that Leo is not yet enlightened, I think he has an exceptional understanding of it as well other topics around it but I don't feel he's able to sit in it just yet. The ease of being is not yet there and I think that is quite noticeable, I also don't think you can get there through logical understanding and I agree with Ralston that drugs aren't a way to do it either. I believe drugs give you a peak at it but its like being shot in the air by a Canon, you're always gonna come back down. The process has to be an emptying rather than a collecting, whether that be experiences or knowledge. Those are my reasons but also you don't come accross many enlightened teachers that have become enlightened through psyches, maybe that will change in the future, but they could also be a distraction from the full realisation or a crutch even. Just my opinions anyway. 

[Virtually]

11 minutes ago, Consept said:

But let me also say its not really fair to pick holes at him as he is also on his journey and I guess by the nature of Leo's work it's very easy to criticise as we consume his content and hear from him a lot.

True.

I want to reiterate that I created this topic for clarifying the matter for myself and hopefully for you guys as well, and not for criticizing Leo

Edited April 27, 2020 by Virtually

[Virtually]

17 minutes ago, Consept said:

In regards to the t

21 minutes ago, Consept said:

 

opic the answer in my opinion is that Leo is not yet enlightened

For all we know that's still a possiblity. But I can safely conclude from it's content that he is, so I guess I can trust him most of the time

 

18 minutes ago, Consept said:

I agree with Ralston that drugs aren't a way to do it either

I'm still open to this possiblity. Experience will tell. I'd have to go deeper in the psychedelic path

24 minutes ago, Consept said:

The process has to be an emptying rather than a collecting, whether that be experiences or knowledge

I have no idea what it is about once you "get to" the point that he is at

 

31 minutes ago, Consept said:

Those are my reasons but also you don't come accross many enlightened teachers that have become enlightened through psyches, maybe that will change in the future,

I agree

[Consept]

@Virtually I'm not saying you specifically are doing that, I think your question is a fair question. It's just I've seen it happen a lot and sometimes I find myself being critical of him as well and I know it's because he puts himself out there but still I think it's unfair considering he's still on the journey. If he was claiming he's without a doubt enlightened and he should be your only source to get you there then criticise away lol 

[Virtually]

@Consept gotcha

[Consept]

4 minutes ago, Virtually said:

For all we know that's still a possiblity. But I can safely conclude from it's content that he is, so I guess I can trust him most of the time

Again its my opinion that hes not, i could very well be wrong, but also im not sure hes said 'im enlightened' (although you prob wouldnt say that if you were', as far as im aware hes said hes had enlightenment experiences some without but mostly with psyches. He even says in the letter that you cant walk around in a constant state of satori and Ralston says you can and in fact he does. But also there is absolutely nothing wrong with not being enlightened yet, i dont even really like using the word enlightened. Once he does get there he might not even want to teach anymore. 

Your question only makes sense from the perspective that Leo is fully realised, you may have a confirmation bias around this, once you accept hes not the letter makes complete sense as hes still on a journey and is asking someone who is much further in that journey. If you notice Leo had a lot of ideas about what the end point was, but thats it they are just ideas, Ralston has that direct experience and sits within it so he is able to see what Leo is missing.