Openmindedness - Challenging Absolute Truth

[Tim Gardner]

@Leo Gura

 

Just watched the new video, good stuff. 

If someone asks you to imagine that God, Love, Truth and Reality are not

as you've directly realised, how does this work in the context of open-mindedness?

if these things are absolutely true is there any need for serious re-examining?

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Tim Gardner

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Tim Gardner said:

imagine that God, Love, Truth and Reality are not

God/Love/Truth/Reality is the one doing the imagining. It comes prior to thought experiments and even openmindedness -- which still a feature of the mind. God transcends the human mind.

Openmindedness is like the key that unlocks the door to the Absolute. But once the door is unlocked, walk through it. Don't stand around looking at the keys.

[andyjohnsonman]

Great episode but can you consider the possibility that spiral dynamics stages are in the wrong order and actually stage blue has more wisdom than turquoise?

[Hello from Russia]

5 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said:

Great episode but can you consider the possibility that spiral dynamics stages are in the wrong order and actually stage blue has more wisdom than turquoise?

Why then these stage blue people seem to be like hamsters on a wheel, constantly being unhappy and miserable maybe with a few shots of happiness here and there? If they are so wise. While turqoise folks are happy almost unconditionally and in a zen-state 90% of time. 

I found from my exp that the more advanced people become on a spiral, the more zen-like and happy they are and generally they have way more healthy self-esteem

Not mentioning effectiveness at whatever they do

[andyjohnsonman]

Like Leo said in the episode its not about whether or not it is correct initially, it's about whether your mind is open to the possibility, I'd say this is more possible than my mum being hatched from an egg which was his first example

Edited April 26, 2020 by andyjohnsonman

[andyjohnsonman]

I just see on this forum that spiral dynamics is a go to lens to evaluate a lot of things, so as a good open mindedness exercise, can you open your mind to the possibility that spiral dynamics is completely wrong? 

[w4read]

@andyjohnsonman I think thats pretty much the limit for me. I can be open to ufos, aliens, flying spons and forks and all that, but spiral dynamics being wrong? That's pretty much impossible at this point lol

[StarStruck]

2 hours ago, andyjohnsonman said:

I just see on this forum that spiral dynamics is a go to lens to evaluate a lot of things, so as a good open mindedness exercise, can you open your mind to the possibility that spiral dynamics is completely wrong? 

It is just a model.

[LordFall]

4 hours ago, andyjohnsonman said:

I just see on this forum that spiral dynamics is a go to lens to evaluate a lot of things, so as a good open mindedness exercise, can you open your mind to the possibility that spiral dynamics is completely wrong? 

I don't think people are realizing the wisdom of your comment. You should be able to question the nature of things and if your worldview is wrong, even as "conscious" as we like to think we are. Life would be a lot easier if stage blue had it right and the key to happiness and truth was just order and respecting of the established norms but it seems like life is just a little more complicated then that

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, andyjohnsonman said:

I just see on this forum that spiral dynamics is a go to lens to evaluate a lot of things, so as a good open mindedness exercise, can you open your mind to the possibility that spiral dynamics is completely wrong? 

What is there prior to “completely right” or “completely wrong”? What lies within “completely right” and “completely wrong”? 

Notice how the mind constructs “right” and “wrong”. The mind can hold ideas loosely and be fluid. A fluid mind can construct, deconstruct and re-construct. Or let it go. 

[Eva]

I found the episode truly interesting and helpful, thank you Leo for publishing new videos again! 

The attachment component really is the important one to remember. Issues that are not personally that close or so-called triggering are easy and even fun to entertain being differently. I personally noticed that I stumbled badly with the one example about having a good-looking (or what is specifically called) boyfriend/girlfriend. I've worked a lot with my money issues and the million dollars doesn't seem to outlandish now-a-days, but these romantic relationships and stuff... Pfff, the culmination of my low self-esteem, neuroses and all other kinds of egoic bluff lumped up all-in-one. No surprise there, but it dropped me back to it yet again. There's a massive difference between my openmindedness regarding worldly issues and deeply relational ones. 

Thanks for the insights!

[John Doe]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

What is there prior to “completely right” or “completely wrong”? What lies within “completely right” and “completely wrong”? 

Notice how the mind constructs “right” and “wrong”. The mind can hold ideas loosely and be fluid. A fluid mind can construct, deconstruct and re-construct. Or let it go. 

You seem to be engaged in a lot of spiritual blabber-mouthery. You write a lot of words sounding very mysterious and philosophical, but you're just arguing non-duality here, which we have already seen before. I can see how non-duality can be a thing, but in the majority of cases, making a call to non-duality largely seems like a cop-out to me. The questioner has made a very simple observation - Spiral Dynamics may not be an effective model to capture 'stages of human development' (which seems to be very very complex btw). And the answer would be YES, of-course such a possibility can be true, given how little is known about the latter.

[w4read]

4 minutes ago, Cykaaaa said:

Same lol, I'm more open to my mom having been hatched from an egg that that hahahaha

I'm actually adding this to my list of things I'm close-minded towards. Gotta work on that I guess

Hahaha, exactly.

Yeah we have to work on that. It's gonna be a long list and we'll have to work on every single assumption in detail. Better get to work!

[Forestluv]

@John Doe Yes, there is nondual blabber. Within this context, what I wrote can be considered nonsense without value. 

In a more practical sense, I would consider SD theory to be like a quality map. Like any quality map, it has situational value. It would be narrow-minded to think a single map is flawless and provides all definitive answers. 

[Carl-Richard]

@andyjohnsonman You would have to explain why that would be your suspicion. Being openminded just for the sake of being openminded isn't really what you should be aiming at.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

6 hours ago, w4read said:

@andyjohnsonman I think thats pretty much the limit for me. I can be open to ufos, aliens, flying spons and forks and all that, but spiral dynamics being wrong? That's pretty much impossible at this point lol

It's not so much that Spiral Dynamics is wrong or right. It's about how useful it is. If you find the model useful or if you don't find it useful, I don't see the problem either way.

[StarStruck]

Openmindedness means not having a bias. It doesn't have to do with truth. The truth is the outcome/product.

[John Doe]

@Serotoninluv Got it. As for Spiral Dynamics, yes, I completely agree.

[John Doe]

@Cykaaaa Looking back, yes it did sound very aggressive. I'm sorry about that. I'm probably just projecting my own frustration with my personal spiritual work on to other people.

[andyjohnsonman]

I use spiral dynamics a lot as a lense to see the world and feel quite attached to it, So I decided to do an open mindedness exploration on "spiral dynamics is a lie". Heres what I wrote: 

It's not true that all big sample studies are correct. Just because a "blue' person has one blue characteristic doesn't mean that he falls into other blue characteristics. What you think of as a blue person could be more loving and developed  than a yellow person. The yellow person could have just as much judgement about how others cant see the whole of the spiral. SD could be a narrow view overlooking that whats most important - love, dogma, selfishness etc.

My idea is to sit with this and explore it while being able to go back and use SD as i please without attachment.