How Are You Communicating On This Forum??? (Mind Blowing Model) (Intention Of Commu..

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Cykaaaa@The observer

Materialist = Spiral Dynamics stage ORANGE person.

Example: An imaginary dialogue between Leo Gura and a materialist. 

Leo Gura: On psychedelics, you can begin to see that everything is conscious and that you are connected to everything.

Materialist: *intention to better understand* But Leo couldn't that just be the effect of your brain experiencing the psychedelic compound as the neurotransmitter oxytocin. It is known that oxytocin is the bonding chemical, so couldn't your perception of "everything is connected" be explained by that perceived increase in oxytocin? 

 

Materialist: *intention to bond with Leo + to better understand* What you're saying is truly magical! I agree with you, that is what appears to be the case, however I have a question, couldn't your perception of "everything is connected" be explained by the psychedelic compound mimicking the neurotransmitter oxytocin? I'm not saying you're wrong I just want to see what you think. Anyways thanks for even sharing these wonderful insights! You're the best ❤️

 

Materialist: *intention to prove Leo wrong* Leo, you're blind to the reality that this experience of connection is simply because the psychedelic compound mimics the neurotransmitter oxytocin. This means that when you experience everything as bonded and connected its because your neurotransmitters make you feel that way.

 

Materialist: *Intention to conform + to better understand* Yes, on psychedelics everything seems connected I agree with you, however maybe this connectedness could be a result of the psychedelics mimicking oxytocin...I'm not sure though.

 

Materialist: *intention to dominate Leo* What are you a fucking idiot? Woo-woo piece of shit. You just want to believe that because you're an emotional little snowflake. The reality is that psychedelic compounds mimic the neurotransmitter oxytocin and that tricks you into thinking everything is connected. Pathetic girly snowflake.

 

Same idea, different intention. Same world view, different intention. 

 

Fundamentally the "OTHER" (opposite of "SELF") oriented intentions of communication (SECOND and FOURTH) seek to agree so they will not be manifest in a form of confrontation. FOURTH seeks to agree and connect/bond and SECOND seeks to agree and conform. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[The observer]

@UnconsciousHuman Look buddy, I truly get your model. I just don't agree with it. I don't think it's based on deep enough observations. For me, what you're categorising as three is a one, or more accurately an unhealthy manifestation of a two.

[Derek White]

Maybe if you are over analyzing you are stage orange ? ?.

[Thewritersunion]

@Derek White lol yes yes

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Cykaaaa Yes the intention of TWO/BLUE and FOUR/GREEN is “OTHER over SELF” so it is the opposite of “to confront”. The focus of those two intentions is on OTHER.

However they too have their response somewhat, I just didnt write them. I will do that later. 

Stay tuned

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[UnconsciousHuman]

@The observer

20 hours ago, The observer said:

@UnconsciousHuman Look buddy, I truly get your model. I just don't agree with it. I don't think it's based on deep enough observations. For me, what you're categorising as three is a one, or more accurately an unhealthy manifestation of a two.

How would you yourself map out that unhealthy vs healthy manifestation? Could it not be a more matured and evolved way of expressing SELF onto others? In other words "the next stage of expression"

Look, you are still coming from the place of bringing in the values of the stages of spiral dynamics... This is separate from that! This is looking at the meta-process that happens in spiral dynamics and using that to map the intentions of communication.

And that meta-process is: the swinging from the expression of SELF to the expression of OTHER. It is totally independent of the values of each stage.

I hope you understand that the values that immerge in spiral dynamics are a cause of the "Swinging of the pendulum" but are independent of it, meaning that the new values that immerge are from the previous stage's values, and that emergence is triggered because of the swinging of the pendulum.

Intentions swing from expressing "SELF" to "OTHER" and the way that's done matures as you go up the levels.

Explanation:

The first stage is an unhealthy expression of SELF (intention to dominate), then the second stage is an unhealthy expression of OTHER (intention to be submissive), then the third stage is a healthier expression of SELF (intention to assert self as being right), then the fourth stage is a healthy expression of OTHER (intention to connect and bond), then the FIFTH is an expression irrelevant to self or other but rather its an expression to better understand. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Derek White High IQ comment right there.

[UnconsciousHuman]

@The observer@Cykaaaa

Extreme example of SECONDintention-of-communication:

When someone threatens to shoot you if you say the wrong thing, when you talk to them your intention will be to conform and obey them, this intention is what I'm referring to when I say "SECONDintention-of-communication". It's an intention to "Go along with whatever is happening"

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Keyhole stay warm

[UnconsciousHuman]

@lmfao

I dont like how you just categorize me as an impressionistic thinker. 

It serves as a distraction from the topic at hand. You, by trying to slap that model on to this discussion, caused a stutter in the actual understanding process that was going on. 

You also hinted at the fact that the things I was saying were alogical which made me feel dumb and not so practical. Now when ever Im writing something I’ve got a neurosis to deal with thanks to you.

If you look closely, which you did not.  You would see that my thoughts were expressed in an easy to understand and very explicit manner. Dont slap you shit theme onto me dude, especially when you didn’t take a closer look. And no this is not an invitation for you to psycho analyze me. Just don’t, stop trying to play the role of some genius anime character, leave this thread, and don’t reply. I would prefer not to hear from you again.

Again, I want to let you know just how much I dislike your contribution to this thread. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Virgo

This model is proven to help people recognize their intentions more accurately. People that have grasped this model have reported to me that they see these operations within themselves and that has served as an advantage. 

Again, this model if understood correctly, has the potential to dramatically increase your awareness over your intentions when communicating.

[UnconsciousHuman]

 

@w4read@Consept@Cykaaaa@The observer@Virgo@Keyhole@fridjonk@Carl-Richard@Thewritersunion

Explanation:

As insecurity goes up, unhealthier manifestations of SELF and OTHER come about.

As intensity goes up the need to express SELF or OTHER becomes stronger.

Additional Comment:

FIVE's intention-of-communication is empty of the need to express SELF or OTHER.
 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[w4read]

I realized something when I read through this whole thread. Many so called discussions I've had in the past usually started of with a good intention. I wanted to share my ideas and also get some feedback on them ( or at least that was what i thought). But then, when I eventually got some feedback and it didn't fit my model or was too challenging, it didn't take long before my intentions went from wanting to share and learn to wanting to prove myself right. This especially happened when the person I was speaking to was extra critical and was communicating aggresively which would further challenge my own view and kind of shake my reality an extra bit.

I'm not neccesarily saying that this happened in this thread, but I think a good excersice would be to go through the thread and try to figure out what the motivations behind all the different comments was, and why that was. I think this is a perfect example of how the model itself can help spread awareness of your own intentions and what triggers them.

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read

Quote

it didn't take long before my intentions went from wanting to share and learn to wanting to prove myself right. This especially happened when the person I was speaking to was extra critical and was communicating aggresively which would further challenge my own view and kind of shake my reality an extra bit.

Insecurity increased.
 

Quote

I'm not neccesarily saying that this happened in this thread, but I think a good excersice would be to go through the thread and try to figure out what the motivations behind all the different comments was, and why that was. I think this is a perfect example of how the model itself can help spread awareness of your own intentions and what triggers them.

Yeah, there is no shame. I've had the intention to prove myself right multiple times on this thread. 

 

If I'm not mistaken this reply was a mixture of: low-intensity-GREENintention + low-intensity-BLUEintention + low-intensity-ORANGEintention.

Why do I think this?

1st part of the reply: Sharing or contributing without the need to connect (GREENintention).

2nd part of the reply: (BLUEintention) "I'm not necessarily saying..." which is nonconfrontational but also not "conforming" and then hinting at my own use of insecure intentions (a sense of proving me wrong) but without the need to prove yourself right (ORANGE intention).

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[w4read]

On 23.4.2020 at 11:48 PM, UnconsciousHuman said:

You're on the forum... There is a you and there is a forum. The forum is comprised of people and their opinions. How are you interacting with the people on the forum? That can be answered using this model.

This is separate from why you are on the forum. That would be an indication of your "Values". Rather this model is looking at the intention behind the things you say.

Again, the model you're about to see is different from the "Cognition" or "Values". This model here is really looking in-depth at your intention when communicating not how you communicate. You could see this as a "Map Of Intentions Of Communication" 

"This model is looking in-depth at your intention when communicating not how you communicate". I think this is a great framework and really where the power of this model lies. However, as i tried to point out, the fact that it has nothing to do with the content ( what is actually being said) but rather the structure ( the intention behind what is being said) it makes it unsuitable to use on others. When you interact with others you only see their content, you can't observe their intentions directly. Which again, makes it pointless to try and analyze others intentions, because the only thing you can really experience is your own intentions. Everything else becomes assumptions and is distracting you from the real value of the model which is introspection. 

[w4read]

@UnconsciousHuman also I like that you use the word "in-depth". That means that you probably won't stop at the first layer of introspection. You could probably go even deeper until you potentially find the rock bottom assumptions of your entire ego existence. Then we're REALLY approaching the powerful potential of the model 

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read 

Quote

"This model is looking in-depth at your intention when communicating not how you communicate". I think this is a great framework and really where the power of this model lies. However, as i tried to point out, the fact that it has nothing to do with the content ( what is actually being said) but rather the structure ( the intention behind what is being said) it makes it unsuitable to use on others. When you interact with others you only see their content, you can't observe their intentions directly. Which again, makes it pointless to try and analyze others intentions, because the only thing you can really experience is your own intentions. Everything else becomes assumptions and is distracting you from the real value of the model which is introspection. 

The content of what is being said is in most cases stems from the intention. But that is besides the point. How the content is presented can very easily show your intention.

Here is an example of how the content can stem from the intention: If I have the intention to prove you wrong, I will look for things that help me prove you wrong, and then present them to you as content.

In the example of the "Imaginary Dialogue Between Leo and a Materialist", you can see how different intentions changes the way the content is presented. 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read

3 minutes ago, w4read said:

@UnconsciousHuman also I like that you use the word "in-depth". That means that you probably won't stop at the first layer of introspection. You could probably go even deeper until you potentially find the rock bottom assumptions of your entire ego existence. Then we're REALLY approaching the powerful potential of the model 

Indeed, your intention reveals the structure of your ego. 

[w4read]

I think we're pretty much on the same page. I was making the assumption that it's not suitable to use on others which was probably a too strong of a claim. For me personally, I think that would turn out to be a distraction, but if you are more conscious and have a better intuition than me, then maybe you would be able to pull it of. I still feel, though, that the real power lies in introspection no matter who you are.

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read I fully agree that this model shouldn't be used as a weapon against others. In most cases, it shouldnt be used on others not because it's wrong, but because there is a lot of room for error of judgment and because it can be misused as a "belittling tactic". 

I agree 112312313489% that the application of this model should mainly be on one's self. 

However, let us not undervalue the usefulness of using this model on others (in an accurate manner; lacking distortion).

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman