How Are You Communicating On This Forum??? (Mind Blowing Model) (Intention Of Commu..

[blowfish]

This thread very well shows, there is no consensus on how to interpret and use SD model. Different colors use it according to the values they share. It's said that a pattern in human development becomes fully evident in stage yellow. Not only by learning a model like SD but mostly it happens from own understanding because of a shift in a way of thinking.

Now isn't it confusing to use and obsess over this model? It's a trend on this forum. If this model doesn't work for someone intuitively, without having textbook definitions of stages and values on their mind, or forcefully use it in situations, then it can always serve as a map on where to go. The way is very clear, it outlines what's holding people back and what's next. When people become yellow, they should naturally apply something like Spiral Dynamics, not by categorizing everything in colors, but simply for explaining something in a sense that SD or other models use.

Spiral Dynamics is a great tool for personal development, application of it comes naturally later as you progress. It might be confusing and hold people back by focusing on it's application.

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Carl-Richard Im tired of repeating the concept. 

Look at the "intention of communication". Not the values one hold about the world.

A bleeding heart GREEN morals social justice warrior will use RED intention of communication, to harras anyone who opposes their opinion.

Hopefully, this idea creates a clearer understanding. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Carl-Richard Im tired of repeating the concept. 

Look at the intention of communication. Not the values you hold about the world.

I agree that you could use SD the way you're intending to do, but will a stage orange person not have the intention to use logic, reason, and rationality when communicating?

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Carl-Richard Again dude. They will use logic, rationality, and science to explain their concepts but what is the intention of communication? Is it to prove the other side wrong? Is it to connect? Is it to improve your own and other's understanding? 

I have renamed the STAGES so that people don't make this confusion. 

[Consept]

8 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Carl-Richard Im tired of repeating the concept. 

Look at the "intention of communication". Not the values one hold about the world.

A bleeding heart GREEN morals social justice warrior will use RED intention of communication, to harras anyone who opposes their opinion.

Hopefully, this idea creates a clearer understanding. 

I think the issue is that those who would peg themselves at yellow or maybe higher are realising that on your intention model some of their communication is probably lower like orange, so its the cognitive dissonance that they cant accept being at stage orange. But of course youre isolating to just intention of communication which is different to world views and things like that. So as i understand it you can embody green but post something in a way thats orange even if the content itself is green the intention could be orange, for example if youre trying to prove someone wrong about veganism

[w4read]

@UnconsciousHuman I like the concept, man. Took me a while to understand the distinction between intention and the actual spiral dynamics stage, but finally got it  I think it matches the theory in the sense that if the ego is threatened enough, a stage green person could easily start attacking and basically enter a temporary state, which would remind more of stage red.

It would be a great tool to use on oneself for introspection each time you write a comment. Which themes are engaging the more orange part of me? Where am I able to stay objective and unbiased? And where does my ego get triggered so much that I start misinterpreting and using tactics in order to win an "argument"?

But I would stay away from using it on others as I see a lot of potential challenges with that.

But hey, great model!

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Consept Im amazed that you actually understand the concept with great depth that you can comeup with your own examples. Youre very openminded and quick! I renamed the STAGES... In order to get rid of that confusion. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read The whole point of the model is to use it to better understand yourself!

Quote

I think it matches the theory in the sense that if the ego is threatened enough, a stage green person could easily start attacking and basically enter a temporary state, which would remind more of stage red.

It would be a great tool to use on oneself for introspection each time you write a comment. Which themes are engaging the more orange part of me?

I would like to clarify, that when you say Orange part of me what you are referring to is your values, basically other facets on the SD model. Im suggesting that this one is totally independent, you oftentimes see Leo, who is reaching into late turquoise-early coral values, use ORANGE/THREE intention of communication.

Another example is when a stage BLUE person wants to prove their Christianism to be better than Islam. "Proving them wrong, me right". which is ORANGE/THREE intention of communication.

Edited April 24, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[Consept]

11 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Consept Im amazed that you actually understand the concept. Youre very openminded and quick! I renamed the STAGES... In order to get rid of that confusion. 

I dont think its complicated and like @w4read says its ideal for introspection, im even looking at how i post and referring back to it. I know you changed it but i actually prefer the colour idea. I kinda get where theyre coming from because it means looking at yourself and you may not like where you would be pegged so you argue with the label, but to be honest the slight backlash that youre getting from this would prove your model even more. 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Consept

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Consept Im glad I could improve your understanding of your own intentions, make sure to read the compliments Ive given you in the edited version of my reply.

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Carl-Richard Again dude. They will use logic, rationality, and science to explain their concepts but what is the intention of communication? Is it to prove the other side wrong? Is it to connect? Is it to improve your own and other's understanding? 

I have renamed the STAGES so that people don't make this confusion. 

I'll put it in another way: if you ask a SD stage orange person what they want to achieve in a conversation (their intention of communication), they will most often give you the description of the yellow stage in your model. Idk, I just feel that the intention of communication is a direct reflection of the values of the person anyway: what you want to achieve in a conversation is very often congruent with what you want to achieve in life, instead it's just put into language and shared with others. Still, I like your idea

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Carl-Richard Sure, Richard Dawkins, for example, is stage ORANGE and when he is on stage with Deepak Chopra he will use ORANGE/THREE intention as well.

When you are stage GREEN values you are more likely to use GREEN intention. If you value veganism, the planet, other people's sensitivities etc... your intention of communication will be to manifest that loving-caring vibe, so you will be supportive, caring, empathetic, bond-creating etc..

However when a stage GREEN is communicating with someone who threatens their world view (a homophobe for example), they will have RED/ONE intentions of communication, and therefore seek to bully, harras, and belittle the opposing side. 

That is evidence that the intention of communication is separate from moral values/ "SD Stages".

Edited April 24, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[Consept]

16 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Consept Im glad I could improve your understanding of your own intentions, make sure to read the compliments Ive given you in the edited version of my reply.

Thank you bro 

[w4read]

@UnconsciousHuman 

18 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@w4read The whole point of the model is to use it to better understand yourself!

Ok, good! That's what I'll use it for too.

 

21 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

I would like to clarify, that when you say Orange part of me what you are referring to is your values, basically other facets on the SD model. Im suggesting that this one is totally independent, you oftentimes see Leo, who is reaching into late turquoise-early coral values, use ORANGE/THREE intention of communication.

Another example is when a stage BLUE person wants to prove their Christianism to be better than Islam. "Proving them wrong, me right". which is ORANGE/THREE intention of communication.

Yeah, so maybe stage orange/three has it place some times, and maybe even red (idk), but then at least you have to be concious about why you're choosing that specific communication style. Is that what you're suggesting?

[UnconsciousHuman]

@w4read Yes, when people become aware of their intention of communication they will notice that the more threatened they are the lower their LEVEL of "Intention Of Communication" this should help them advance and overcome ego constructs because, the more rigid the ego the more it identifies, the more threat it feels.

[fridjonk]

You guys are hitting all the problems Spiral Dynamics has, that's why Integral Theory is more accurate and reliable. 

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, UnconsciousHuman said:

@Carl-Richard

However when a stage GREEN is communicating with someone who threatens their world view (a homophobe for example), they will have RED/ONE intentions of communication, and therefore seek to bully, harras, and belittle the opposing side. 

I'm assuming that you're modeling this description after what I call the SJW phenomena, which I believe to be a green movement with a radical blue/red edge. I would say that these people aren't just communicating using blue/red, but they ARE infact blue/red in many aspects, which is quite funny as it seems to contradict many of their green values (which what people like Steven Crowder and the red-pill community are capitalizing on). 

My problem can essentially be summed up like this: 
In pratice, how would you be able to distinguish the 'intention of communication' from the actual values? How do you know when someone is expressing themselves in a red fashion vs. when someone is merely showing their red values? The way I see it, communication is just one of the ways the values are expressed. If those values aren't present within the individual or group, the values wouldn't be expressed, and they would not be a part of the conversation.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[UnconsciousHuman]

@Carl-Richard I think it could more easily be explained by this model. 

 saying things like, "blue/red edge" what does that idea mean? Well, this edge you talk of, is represented very explicitly by this model.

This was just one example out of the thousands you could come up with. 

 

You can distinguish between the intention of communication and the actual value by:

Value: The content of what they say.

The intention of communication: What is implied by what they said, what is the tonality?

Quote

How do you know when someone is expressing themselves in a red fashion vs. when someone is merely showing their red values?

Dude Im sick of repeating myself! Go read my other replies!!!! 

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by UnconsciousHuman

[Consept]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I believe you're modeling this description after what I call the SJW phenomena, which I believe to be a green movement with a radical blue/red edge. I would say that these people aren't just communicating using blue/red, but they ARE infact blue/red in many aspects, which is quite funny as it seems to contradict many of their green values (which what people like Steven Crowder and the red-pill community are capitalizing on). 

My problem can essentially be summed up like this: 
In pratice, how would you be able to distinguish the 'intention of communication' from the actual values? How do you know when someone is expressing themselves in a red fashion vs. when someone is merely showing their red values? The way I see it, communication is just one of the ways the values are expressed. If those values aren't present within the individual or group, the values wouldn't be expressed, and they would not be a part of the conversation.

I disagree, i would say SJWs are green but unhealthy version of it. The big difference between tier 1 and tier 2 is that you cant take on others points of view that contradict yours. So SJWs have no understanding or empathy for why a conservative thinks the way they do, they still believe that there is one truth and their opponents are blocking that truth because theyre stupid and dont get it. To communicate this they use red intention, they have no intention of coming to a mutual understanding. However the content of what they believe is green and most likely they even build up communities of people who feel the same way they do and most likely these are lovng communities, but when challanged the loving goes out the window   

[Carl-Richard]

@UnconsciousHuman The blue/red edge means that their movement isn't merely green. I'm just not convinced how you can distinguish the intention of communication from the expression of the values.