As I wake up, does the entire universe wake up too?

[heretohelp]

Hi this is my first post here so play nice Could I receive some clarity on my understanding of the implications of non-duality?

I am speaking from a relative perspective here so please respond accordingly.

I have always felt that during times of my life when I have been more conscious, the world and people around me i.e. the universe/everything is also more conscious.

As such, when I am less conscious, the universe, is also less conscious (or at least this dynamic appears to be so)

If non-duality means I ("my" awareness) = everything then would that not mean that as I become more conscious the universe i.e. the 'people' and everything around me would become more conscious because i literally am the universe.

If this is true then I am 100% responsible for the level of consciousness in the universe right now as the universe is a direct reflection on 'my' level of consciousness because I = universe.

Therefore, I would also be responsible for all the suffering in the world right now as 'my' suffering = the suffering of the universe. The overall level of suffering in the world is thus a direct reflection of the overall level of suffering I experience as non-duality means i = universe. Suffering = not being conscious. Being more conscious = less suffering.

So the most responsible and selfless action I could take in this life (and anyone else) is to become more conscious which in turn means the universe will become more conscious as I = universe. 

And that is my purpose here. To wake up and wake the whole universe up too.

Have I understood this implication of non-duality correctly? Or is this solipsism and very self-centered? Does non-duality imply that my level of consciousness = the universes' level of consciousness?

If I have misunderstood, please help me understand this. Thanks in advance

[Aaron p]

I'm pretty sure how it works is, everyone is actually an expression of the same "thing" and everyone has their own little universe that they themselves create. But when it comes to Actuality...my universe is the only universe that exists and the idea that you have a universe for you, is a concept that is also within my universe. And vice versa. I *think* that's how it works. What's more important is the understanding that this is not meant to be grasped logically. People are like "yeah I think I got enlightened"...if I drive a 100 ton train over you, do you "think" I just drove a train over you? If you "think" I just drove over you with the train then there's a high probability that that's actually just your imagination. When enlightenment comes, it is more obvious that 400 trains running you over from every direction at the same time. I know this from tripping. The practices are the only thing that actually being about enlightenment. Including contemplation, kriya, self enquiry, psyc retreats, do nothing etc.

[Pacific Sage]

@heretohelp

Hi there!

I feel that that higher the awareness of consciousness you have the more you ll attract other higher consciousness elements to your life.

I think raising owns consciousness is very important in these times, we can connect our higher consciousness to the collective consciousness and help the entire collective consciousness to vibe higher. Just like averages in numbers.

Observing the major events like Covid-19 makes me feel like the collective consciousness is vibing low, of course this just could be an effect of causes.

This is my take on the topic.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Pacific Sage

[Pacific Sage]

19 minutes ago, Pacific Sage said:

@heretohelp

Hi there!

I feel that that higher the awareness of consciousness you have the more you ll attract other higher consciousness elements to your life.

I think raising owns consciousness is very important in these times, we can connect our higher consciousness to the collective consciousness and help the entire collective consciousness to vibe higher. Just like averages in numbers.

Observing the major events like Covid-19 makes me feel like the collective consciousness is vibing low, of course this just could be an effect of causes.

This is my take on the topic.

Also I feel, if one decides to live in the world of distractions and not in a perment life like in Vipassana retreats (yogis in isolation), then universe will throw a whole lot of curve balls in life, it's kind of pretty guaranteed deal. 

It might also be important to be aware of our consciousness state while dealing with those curve balls. To stay grounded in present moment and in being.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Pacific Sage

[traveler]

You can not figure non duality out. There is no separate "I" to be "=" the "universe." A better pointing would be there is just "I", or there is just "universe," or even better: there is just what is. Non duality means not two, it is a paradox for the person because the person experiences itself as separate to everything else. In reality there is no paradox, there is no separate self with a real story, there is just the formless appearing as whatever is happening. Formlessness never actually become form, it can only appear as such. Much like changing images on a screen or waves in the ocean. Everything is complete, always, no matter what wave appears in the ocean or what image appears on the screen. Complete; it contains experiences of  incomplete. How could you use any understanding in terms of thoughts to figure out what is already? IT IS ALREADY. Anything that appears is by definition already accepted, it is already allowed in. Thoughts of responsibility for the whole universe is appearing in this. Taking a shit is appearing in this. It's this, what are you gonna do to figure that out? 

How are you going to find what already is? The quest of trying to find it would only happen if an experience of a separate self trying to find it happens IN IT. 

I went on a tangent, excuse me, but it is not totally unrelated to the topic, as what you're really looking for is what is. Nothing wrong with looking for higher levels of consciousness or huge existential answers, but it has nothing to do with non duality.

Edited April 23, 2020 by traveler

[Nahm]

Welcome to the forum!

With respect to you just starting in on the path, I would offer that diet & fitness is 99% of it. It’s relative to you though, so don’t use comparison to anyone else. Listen to your body. The mind is a limiter of intelligence, not a generator of it. The body is infinite intelligence. Let it lead, by listening to feeling and willingly letting thought is discord with the body go. (That will uncover all beliefs.) Learn to “get out of your own way”, make it easy - let it be easy. 

All of the philosophy ever written is inferior to a single change in the orientation of your well being. You’re responsible for your behaviors, choices, and actions. That’s it. The universe is already wakefulness, and you are already not separate of it. You are asleep. I don’t mean that in a derogatory manor, I mean you’re literally asleep & dreaming right now, but have beliefs supporting the notion you’re awake. 

All thinking is dualistic. It has a divine use, but it’s not ‘figuring things out’ / existential rumination. In letting go (meditation) insights arise, and epiphanies & revelations are inevitable. Always empty, never cling, never claim what arises. 

Inspection of beliefs & assumptions is key. Scrutinize everything you take for granted. Not just ‘things’ & people in your life, but air, breathing, gravity, etc. I would drop all notions of striving for, achieving, obtaining, acquiring, or increasing via “levels of consciousness”. This is my opinion though, and it is not the popular one. I find it to be the undermining of one’s own path via comparison to others and a fictitious ’measuring stick’. It is more path-wise imo to tell the attendant at the gas station thank you & that you appreciate them, to actually see them, than to decipher which one of you is higher or lower consciousness. Invest some time in spiral dynamics instead, and don’t confuse it with your path. 

Simple & practical is most ideal. When you wake up every morning, splash cold water on your face, breathe deeply in your stomach, feel & relax the body, go outside and express gratitude for that miracle, and ponder, how much love can I feel, express & allow myself to receive today? Meditate. Exercise. In that manor, outdo yourself, everyday. It is by loving you discover you can never run out of it. Imo, don’t look to awaken the world. It’s fine how it is. Look to see how much love you can give to it. Great user name btw.

 

[WHO IS]

You ALL are imagery, the only person there is, is Me. None of this is real.

 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, heretohelp said:

I am speaking from a relative perspective here so please respond accordingly

That's the problem.

You want God explained on your level and that will never work. You must surrender yourself and rise to God's level.

Awakening is not relative. That's the whole point. This leads to all sorts of paradoxes when you try to think of it in a relative fashion. You can't think of God or awakening in the same way you think about other things. It is a different kind of beast.

Your questions assume a difference between you, others, and the universe. All of this will collapse into Unity, your jaw will drop, a giant grin will grow on your face, and all relative questions will fly out the window. God!

[Scholar]

in a relative sense one could imagine it with different timelines, I guess. Enlightenment is Ultimate. It is the End of all Timelines, it is the end point of all Form.

In that timeline, so to speak, everyone is already dead, because all form reunited with formlessness. This does not make sense because you imagine Reality not as a circle. If you see the circle, it won't be an issue. It will still be impossible, but it will not be an issue. The stories will make more sense, even if they are contradictory and paradoxical.

I guess the trick is, it is the same place at which everyone was not yet born.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Scholar

[heretohelp]

I appreciate your responses @Aaron p @traveler

 

@Pacific Sage "Connect our higher consciousness to collective consciousnesses".

I understand what you mean but doesn't collective consciousness = my/your consciousness so "Observing the major events like Covid-19 makes me feel like the collective consciousness is vibing low, of course this just could be an effect of causes" - but that's just a reflection of my/your consciousness? No?

"Also I feel, if one decides to live in the world of distractions and not in a perment life like in Vipassana retreats (yogis in isolation), then universe will throw a whole lot of curve balls in life, it's kind of pretty guaranteed deal." 

Interesting you feel that way. I struggle to grapple with this one. I've spent months living at Vipassana retreats as well as camping/meditating in isolation for weeks, completely removed from the world of distractions, and found in some sense it's "too easy". It's too easy to be conscious in these environments. If you want to see if your really aware, try to be aware when you boss is shouting at you or when your 39km in during a marathon. Ahh then it's gets hard.

I left these environments because i realised i'm not providing any service to the society and was willing to 'give up' some of my peace to make a difference in society through my work. Perhaps that was a mistake and my ego wanting to be distracted and i hadn't understood that the best service to the universe and 'others' is to become more conscious. Or maybe those people who isolate themselves completely and provide no physical service to society (and just focus on becoming more aware) are really the self-centered ones? What do you think?

4 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

You liberate the entire universe by liberating yourself.

You set everything free. Seeing bondage comes from bondage.

All you have is your own subjective pov consciousness. That’s all that’s there. What state is it in? That’s what matters.

This is what I have found.

I do intuitively agree. I'm just being stupid and trying to logically understand it and distract myself. 

@Nahm You've given great advice for a newbie! Thankyou!  

I've been rude and played dumb a little here as i've been 'on the path' for a bit and was just looking for an excuse to mentally masturbate. Just an ego backlash. For context in the past 5yrs, I've eaten plant based, meditated 2hrs daily, run ~10hrs per week, taken psychedelics, 5 x Vipassana retreats, 2 x 7 day self-retreats. I'm 22. Sorry if that sounds like i'm flexing my 'look how spiritual i am' muscle. I don't have social media and i've never posted on a public forum before so my ego wanted to show off...

[heretohelp]

 

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's the problem.

You want God explained on your level and that will never work. You must surrender yourself and rise to God's level.

Awakening is not relative. That's the whole point. This leads to all sorts of paradoxes when you try to think of it in a relative fashion. You can't think of God or awakening in the same way you think about other things. It is a different kind of beast.

Your questions assumes a difference you, others, and the universe.

Your right. I do know what your saying. The intial post was me just experiencing a minor ego backlash via mentally masturbating. Sorry. I'm sure you can appreciate that we all do this when doubt arises on the path from time to time. Thankyou for your response

[Nahm]

@heretohelp What exactly is going on with this “ego backlash” ?

[heretohelp]

9 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@heretohelp What exactly is going on with this “ego backlash” ?

By "ego backlash" here i mean me distracting myself from the 'work' by mentally masturbating. I did that because my ego had a minor recoil and is scared. Being scared (fear) is due to making recent the progress on the path which has involved letting go of parts of my identity. And that is scary for my ego, hence why i distracted myself from that by playing mental gymnastics in my above post. I see people doing it on the forum constantly and i got sucked into it too haha oopsies  

[Nahm]

@heretohelp

Oh ok. Tell your ego I said hi.  

[heretohelp]

@Nahm

haha it says hi back and thanks for the help but i have one question, more of a confirmation of an insight really - i know i know more mental gymnastics. 

All anyone/anything can ever offer you is motivation. That's all this forum and actualized.org is. Motivation. Nothing more. By motivation i mean motivation to the do the work, to wake up. I mean everything is a sign, a pointer to help/motivate you to awaken and for you to take that step for yourself. And you have a choice (at at least the illusion of one) every moment to choose if you step forward or backwards on the path (so to speak). That has been my experience. What do you think?

[Nahm]

@heretohelp

It’d be up to you to see if there’s more to that.

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, cypres said:

But we are not God

You are God. It's just a question of how conscious you are of this fact. How deeply do you dare awaken from your dream?

[The observer]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You are God. It's just a question of how conscious you are of this fact. How deeply do you dare awaken from your dream?

Okay. I know this probably sounds basic to you Leo, but the depth of awakening is infinite, right? Isn't infinitely chasing awakening just another form of God? God is free to seek and chase forever and He will still be God. As well, if God drops seeking once and for all, He's also still God. The difference sounds relative to me. There isn't an objective to God because God is Its own objective.

For me, letting go of the chase wasn't so difficult. Desire is equal to identifying with imagination. I have very little desire so probably that's why. I don't know why I'm saying this maybe I'm trying to change your mind. I should just stop haha.

[Leo Gura]

@The observer Stop splitting hairs and do the work.

[The observer]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@The observer Stop splitting hairs and do the work.

What work? And would I die if I don't do it? Great then! We're going down the same road.

Also, I'm quarantined, fasting for Ramadan, and bored. Can't I just have a little fun with you? Happy birthday, Leo.