Believing That You Know

[Mal]

33 minutes ago, MarkusR said:

@Mal ...You know enough to know this negativity and aggression is not good, and will be an obstacle you have to face on your journey.

You sound like you're playing the teacher role. 

Are you attempting to coach me on my obstacles toward enlightnement, after your rant about me not knowing shit?

I'm not sure which persona to respond to here, this is why I gave you an apology.

[MarkusR]

@Mal Whats the reason for you backtracking, I thought this conversation was progressing Mal. I thought we were getting past that already, I guess we arent on the same page at all then.

[Mal]

Just now, MarkusR said:

@Mal Whats the reason for you backtracking, I thought this conversation was progressing Mal. I thought we were getting past that already, I guess we arent on the same page at all then.

I'm actually becoming interested in why my enlightenment is so important to you?

You're here talking about my enlightenment like you're pretending that my enlightenment means something to you, that your advice is going to help me.

What if I don't want your help?

The only people who have done anything with their lives here are Ayla, Charlie and Natasha. The rest of the people I don't take their advice. 

Mainly because I don't see them chasing me around trying to coach me on my development.

What's your aganda?

[MarkusR]

@Mal Woah.

[Mal]

1 minute ago, MarkusR said:

@Mal Woah.

What? Human emotions too much for you?

You got a lot to learn young grasshopper 

 

[MarkusR]

@Mal Nope, you're too much.

[Mal]

2 minutes ago, MarkusR said:

@Mal Nope, you're too much.

Thank you. Now leave me alone to do my work with people who know what this is about.

[Huz]

2 hours ago, charlie2dogs said:

hi markus, the human identity will never know the truth of anything, the human identity is the illusion, the illusion cannot know truth.  so in order to know the truth one must become the truth, and to become the truth one has to become something other than a human being identity body.  the only thing left is consciousness, and to transition from the human being to a being of consciousness, is like being an invisible being with a set of eyeballs floating in space fully aware, fully conscious. existing only in the moment, as an observer of what takes place in that moment, without attachment, without the giving of attention.  to experience the awakened consciousness as a being of consciousness and not the human identity is what enlightenment or self realization is,  it is the realization and the experience of not functioning as the human identity. One teacher stated, I and the father are one,  few have understood that, the term father that was used was representative of consciousness,  and to be one with it is to be self realized. some have this idea that everyone is enlightened, that is nothing more than a newage theory.  until the consciousness that became trapped in the illusion and forgot its true estate,  has fully awakened and taken up its true state of being,  it is only the illusion, what is rooted within consciousness is what is keeping one in the illusion.  Many are primarily gathering information, speculating and making assumptions that end up becoming a belief,  there is no room for a belief system with a self realized being.  to be enlightened or self realized one must achieve a state of liberation, in that the consciousness is cleansed, and the being leaves the physical body as a liberated being, not as consciousness that is trapped in the illusion, still carrying all that has been rooted in it, and the human identity cannot cleanse the consciousness, it can only be done by functioning as a being of consciousness, as it then dissolves and flows away from the liberated being. an enlightened being must maintain at least one desire in order to remain grounded in this dimension.  the experience of being a being of consciousness rather than a human being cannot be fully grasp until it happens and then the dream and illusion is over, in some teachings this is known as the transition from the third eye chakra to the crown chakra, there is no road map for this, no one can take you there, it requires complete surrender and that includes your belief system, programing, and warped perception of life and even your fictitious identity.

Charlie, here is a thought experiment. Imagine if I had to turn you over to torture chamber in the middle east for 6 months. Would they be able to make you suffer at all, with any method applied to you (eg blow torch, pliers etc)? 

Would that cause you fear or does it feel the same as say going on a picnic in nature?

Can consiousness become so liberated that even though the physical body is being destroyed, from a subjective perspective nothing is touched? 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Huz

[Mal]

12 minutes ago, Huz said:

Charlie, here is a thought experiment. Imagine if I had to turn you over to torture chamber in the middle east for 6 months. Would they be able to make you suffer at all, with any method applied to you (eg blow torch, pliers etc)? 

Would that cause you fear or does it feel the same as say going on a picnic in nature?

Can consiousness become so liberated that even though the physical body is being destroyed, from a subjective perspective nothing is touched? 

[Mal]

@Huz

?

Identity is contracted energy local to the body. But liberation doesn't mean that consciousness is not also this body. I imagine that would be extremely painful. But just not happening to any particular separate self sense.

[Huz]

1 minute ago, Mal said:

@Huz

?

Identity is contracted energy local to the body. But liberation doesn't mean that consciousness is not also this body. I imagine that would be extremely painful. But just not happening to any particular separate self sense.

Yes, the pain will be there while being tortured. I was meant to ask wether he would suffer when going through this. 

It is the resistance to the pain by your identity which causes your suffering. I was wondering that with sufficient awareness, can you say to someone what I just mentioned to Charlie, who is a self-liberated being and them not to be fearful of what is about to happen. Can you still be in equanimity? 

[Huz]

47 minutes ago, Mal said:

The only people who have done anything with their lives

What is there for one to "do" with their lives?

Edited July 5, 2016 by Huz

[Mal]

19 minutes ago, Huz said:

What is there for one to "do" with their lives?

The context is enlightenment work, rather than materialism. I don't see anybody else here apart from these 3 who understands first hand what this work is about. Do you? But this is just my assumption really, I've blocked most of the other stuff here because it has no value to me whatsoever. Now that's pompous!

My neurosis is going to become even more monstrous.  I remember Parsons speaking about the ego getting ridiculous before it's final demise. Maybe this is what I'm doing? This is my life story bubbling up to the surface I think. Emotional purging?

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Mal

[Orange]

@charlie2dogs what is the desire you talk about to stay grounded in this dimension? (What are examples of that desire)

Also, if someone is enlightened,  why would they want to stay in the non enlightened dimension? Because in the human identity dimension there is a lot of suffering, I assume when you are enlightened you have no more suffering..whatever the circumstances..I'm not sure about the last point I make though because someone who is being tortured I presume their physical pain would prevent them from going in the enlightened dimension because the pain is too painful and distracting from the place of no self. 

...my page refreshed after I wrote this down but yea, it goes kind of the same way @Huz said

 

Edited July 5, 2016 by Orange

[charlie2dogs]

1 hour ago, MarkusR said:

@charlie2dogs Yea, thats the complicated part about being "enlightened". If you become awakened, all that is is the experience, once you have had it all you can take into the dirty world or world of the mind is that memory. I think the final transition would have to be death, otherwise you are destined to stay in this persona.

Do you think some people have really reached permanent enlightenment? It seems kind of out of this world, I have a feeling you would have to be very close to death if you get into that stage.

yes i think some have, and some chose to leave the planet rather than stay after enlightenment,  death does not exist for an enlightened being, they have overcome death, they exist in the same state of being here absent the physical body,  that they will be after leaving the body,

[MarkusR]

@Orange look at this^

[charlie2dogs]

51 minutes ago, Huz said:

Charlie, here is a thought experiment. Imagine if I had to turn you over to torture chamber in the middle east for 6 months. Would they be able to make you suffer at all, with any method applied to you (eg blow torch, pliers etc)? 

Would that cause you fear or does it feel the same as say going on a picnic in nature?

Can consiousness become so liberated that even though the physical body is being destroyed, from a subjective perspective nothing is touched? 

have you ever seen an enlightened being tortured, i have never heard of such a thing.  once a king went to a masters home and when the master didnt respond the way the king wanted, the king said, do you not know that i have the power to take your life, the master replied do you not know that i have the power to let you.

[charlie2dogs]

14 minutes ago, Orange said:

@charlie2dogs what is the desire you talk about to stay grounded in this dimension? (What are examples of that desire)

Also, if someone is enlightened,  why would they want to stay in the non enlightened dimension? Because in the human identity dimension there is a lot of suffering, I assume when you are enlightened you have no more suffering..whatever the circumstances..I'm not sure about the last point I make though because someone who is being tortured I presume their physical pain would prevent them from going in the enlightened dimension because the pain is too painful and distracting from the place of no self. 

...my page refreshed after I wrote this down but yea, it goes kind of the same way @Huz said

 

orange you are only on this planet because of unfulfilled desires, when becoming enlightened if you choose to remain here for what ever reason you must maintain an earthly desire of some sort in order to be grounded in this dimension.  suffering only happens to the human identity body.  some remain to help others become self realized where possible.

[Huz]

8 minutes ago, Mal said:

The context is enlightenment work, rather than materialism. I don't see anybody else here apart from these 3 who understands first hand what this work is about. Do you? But this is just my assumption really, I've blocked most of the other stuff here because it has no value to me whatsoever. Now that's pompous!

 

To me this work is about Truth. That is a state of being, which lies between the web of knowledge you have created and become attached to in your life. It is to question your concepts and what you believed in a very self-honest way. I found numerous techniques that are helping me do this, like deconstructing phenomena through careful observation, sitting and doing absolutely nothing and ways to become consious of consiousness - self enquiry, observing what is true in your experience. 

It is a way to become liberated from the human identity, which causes the suffering in your life. Then once you have become a being of consciousness you go back to people in the world and guide them to discover their true-self and to help them go through the tough times in which they experience.

But I have only recently started this work this year and no way near ready to teach a guide people, becuase my ego isn't going with out a fight to say. But I am young and got years ahead.

[Mal]

14 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

have you ever seen an enlightened being tortured, i have never heard of such a thing.  once a king went to a masters home and when the master didnt respond the way the king wanted, the king said, do you not know that i have the power to take your life, the master replied do you not know that i have the power to let you.