Concerns for Leo

[Nak Khid]

38 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I’m interested in the neuroplastic-stimulating  effects of psychedelics. I don’t like working with cell culture or vertebrates, so I’d work with an invertebrate. There are many invertebrate models of neurological conditions. Some experiments can test if psychedelics can rescue neurological abnormalities at both the cellular and organismal level. For example, we could examine neurite growth with various antibody markers. 

Yet for me, a higher level would be how to guide neuralplasticity beneficially. We don’t want the brain to rewire in a messy manner. Basic generation of synapses is fairly easy to test, yet the more complex circuitry would be very difficult to examine.

As well, a higher level is to actually experiment on one’s self by ingesting psychedelics and working through the process. With enough skill, one can work within multiple levels - cellular, organismal, energetic, nonphysical, collective etc. 

Why don't you like working with vertebrates?

Can you explain some of this in layman's terms. What are some examples of a neurological condition that could be changed ultimately in humans by taking psychedelics?   Which chemicals are most promising?

  Neurologic Diseases

Diseases caused by faulty genes, such as Huntington's disease and muscular dystrophy

Problems with the way the nervous system develops, such as spina bifida

Degenerative diseases, where nerve cells are damaged or die, such as Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease

Diseases of the blood vessels that supply the brain, such as stroke

Injuries to the spinal cord and brain

Seizure disorders, such as epilepsy

Cancer, such as brain tumors

infections, such as meningitis

Edited April 21, 2020 by Nak Khid

[Forestluv]

47 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Why don't you like working with vertebrates?

I don’t like experimenting on vertebrates. My experiments involve creating a variety of genetic mutants, toxins, fixations and dissections. I don’t like exposing vertebrates to that. They are too far up the evolutionary ladder and sentient. I don’t want to cause them suffering.

47 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

. What are some examples of a neurological condition that could be changed ultimately in humans by taking psychedelics?   Which chemicals are most promising?

In laymans’s terms, neuralplasticity is the ability of neuronal circuits to rewire itself. A simple example of this is learning. Imagine learning a new language. In the beginning, you keep forgetting the vocabulary words. Yet with repetition, word association, imagination etc, you begin to remember the words automatically. New synapses have formed and are strengthened. 

There are many examples of neurological conditions that could be helped with psychedelics. For example, depression and PTSD. Yet I’m not interested in human experiments. Yet these conditions are difficult to study in invertebrate model organisms. Its not straightforward to study something like depression in fruit flies. . . So I would likely study the basics mechanics of neural plasticity. For example, the structure of synapses and neurotrophic factor expression induced by psychedelics. As well, there are good invertebrate models for nuerodenegertive diseases, such as Huntington’s and Parkinson’s disease. We can see if psychedelics can help alleviate the symptoms.

Several psychedelics have been shown to induce neural plasticity at the cellular level, including LSD, DMT. MDMA, Psilocybin and 5-Mel-dmt. As well, these compounds have been shown effective at relieving symptoms in humans at the organismal level. Yet we know very little about the mechanisms and how cellular changes relate to changes at the organismal level. For example, how does rewiring serotonin synapses in certain regions of the brain relate to reduced PTSD intensity? 
 

I appreciate your interest in this research. Yet I also don’t want to derail the thread, so I’ll be stepping aside.

[zeroISinfinity]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The only experiment worth doing is putting it in your ass

?

He will die man. 

[Joshua Deveau]

There is nothing to worry about. Leo has announced his fears. It's the fears that he is currently working on. Next time there will be a new set of fears dealing with the deeper issues. It sounds crazy to some, probably most people even. He's heading toward where his aim has been for years. 

[Haumea2018]

I watched 18 minutes of it.

Leo insists that "the mind"/"understanding" matters because it's the PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE.

He doesn't have to face his fears which have to do with actually TRUSTING others.

His argument about gurus is a complete strawman.  

His argument about "how you know when you've reached the end" is another.

You don't need to stay with one guru forever and you don't need a psychedelic to know "when" because you know "when" when restlessness has ceased.

He just doesn't get it because he's not in an embodied state.

It's all just concepts for him to bat around, to dismiss at will.

You can't understand it until you embody it - permanently, not as an experience.

This is all a big drama about Leo being afraid of trusting others.

Well, sorry, you can have all the cool psychedelic experiences you want, but they don't mean shit until you muster up the courage to deal with your basic fears.

Does he cover it later in the video? I don't have the patience.  If someone would provide a timestamp where he discussed his fears, I'd love to see that part, but the first 18 minutes weren't promising.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Haumea2018

[Nak Khid]

listen from 1:50:00

[Haumea2018]

1 minute ago, Nak Khid said:

listen from 1:50:00

Thanks!

[Inliytened1]

21 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

I watched 18 minutes of it.

Leo insists that "the mind"/"understanding" matters because it's the PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE.

He doesn't have to face his fears which have to do with actually TRUSTING others.

His argument about gurus is a complete strawman.  

His argument about "how you know when you've reached the end" is another.

You don't need to stay with one guru forever and you don't need a psychedelic to know "when" because you know "when" when restlessness has ceased.

He just doesn't get it because he's not in an embodied state.

It's all just concepts for him to bat around, to dismiss at will.

You can't understand it until you embody it - permanently, not as an experience.

This is all a big drama about Leo being afraid of trusting others.

Well, sorry, you can have all the cool psychedelic experiences you want, but they don't mean shit until you muster up the courage to deal with your basic fears.

Does he cover it later in the video? I don't have the patience.  If someone would provide a timestamp where he discussed his fears, I'd love to see that part, but the first 18 minutes weren't promising.

Embodiment is one thing - a permanent non-dual state is another.  That's what he is speaking of with mahasamadhi.   One will not be in a permanent non-dual state of Consciousnes in finite form no matter how much they embody it.  I'm not saying embodying God in finite form is not great, it is.  And you are God regardless.  But i think what he is chasing is a permanent state of Samadhi right now.  It's not necessary.  That's why he backed off.

[Haumea2018]

25 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Embodiment is one thing - a permanent non-dual state is another.  That's what he is speaking of with mahasamadhi.   One will not be in a permanent non-dual state of Consciousnes in finite form no matter how much they embody it.  I'm not saying embodying God in finite form is not great, it is.  And you are God regardless.  But i think what he is chasing is a permanent state of Samadhi right now.  It's not necessary.  That's why he backed off.

He is chasing it because he does not want to deal with full awakening in a body because he doesn't want to face his fears, which is a prerequisite for it.

As I said, he is running away from himself.

You have to face all your demons.

In other words, he just refuses to get real with himself, and it's heartbreaking, because he is a talented guy in many respects.

 

[Nak Khid]

32 minutes ago, Haumea2018 said:

He is chasing it because he does not want to deal with full awakening in a body because he doesn't want to face his fears, which is a prerequisite for it.

As I said, he is running away from himself.

You have to face all your demons.

In other words, he just refuses to get real with himself, and it's heartbreaking, because he is a talented guy in many respects.

 

He was contemplating ending his physical life, informing his family and spoke of being found dead in his bathtub.  He decided not to do it.  You are suggesting in deciding not to do it he was running from full awakening? 

[gswva]

12 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Formlessness = Form

The only limitations are the ones the human ego imagines.

It's definitely a more convenient view, but doesn't it add some unnatural "mechanical complexity" to nothingness? I mean in other word, shouldn't be God limited by what it is, and forced to live through all perspectives at once?

Are you reporting this from direct experience? If what you say is true, this has a serious implication. It could mean all the spirituality I am reading could be full of imaginary nonsense, or all humans I interact with daily could just pretend to have their own perspective.

[gswva]

@Meta-Man I know that, consciousness is all there is. I'm just wondering if I can trust reality to tell me what perspectives actually exist. You are a real human right? Only one way for me to know, but that would be lonely.

What if the act of understanding this itself kills the ego? Why are we even accepting the limits of what consciousness can do when we are talking about something that shouldn't even exist in the first place? I feel like spirituality is about raising questions until you kill yourself to find the truth.

 

[gswva]

2 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

I’m not a human. I am Consciousness.

I mean, what are you experiencing right now not in a spiritual way? Are you typing on a device as a human the same way I do? Or is the "you" aware of all the universe at once?

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

The idea of embodiment is a fallacy. It means there is ‘someone left’ there to embody it. That is not total. That is not awake.

Formlessness = Form

 

 

I was humoring him on the embodiment    that's a choice after awakening.

Yes formless equals form.  But no you are not in a non-dual mystical state of consciousness now.   You would know that if you were ever in a state of samadhi.  

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

1. You don’t know that. 

2. Non-duality is not a state.

3. I’ll be leaving the forums now, because Leo told me my presence is not wanted here.

Well that sucks.  I kind of liked you

And well, i did actually hit a non-dual state while on the forum before, a year or so ago.   But i could barely type at the time as i was drifting between duality and non-duality / state of pure Being.  

So i guess it's possible.  But don't be that guy who just knows it in concept and then walks around saying he's in permanent non-duality.    If you have had serious awakenings than you won't mind talking about them right?  

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Meta-Man said:

I’m not that guy. You saw me wrestling with VeganAwake about that earlier.

I’m not saying I’m done washing it yet, I just don’t have alot of dirt on my window right now.

Good luck on your journey home brother. Take care ?

You as well brother.

 

[gswva]

43 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Enough questions.

I'm just getting started. I can chase myself all day everyday for eternity!

23 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

I’ll be leaving the forums now, because Leo told me my presence is not wanted here.

Leo is only pretending to not like you out of love. (>_<)

Isn't this pretty much what duality is about? 

[Aaron p]

17 minutes ago, gswva said:

Leo is only pretending to not like you out of love. (>_<)

Isn't this pretty much what duality is about? 

@Meta-Man it's true lol

[The observer]

@Meta-Man ur one of the most realized and surrendered ppl ive noticed here and irl and i share some of ur observations but dont bother talking to the deaf

[The observer]

@Meta-Man all is well. love to u and every one ? god takes his time some times