Concerns for Leo

[GodDesireOnlyLove]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Waken That is an intense story. It reminds me of how real vs. imagination breaks down during a trip. I think a lot of people new to psychedelics underestimate this. The new “imagined” reality can be 100% real, just like regular real life.

I was in Medellin Colombia a couple years ago and took a small amount of 4-aco-dmt to spice the day up. It was a small amount, yet during the come up, I knew this would be much more intense than I had planned and I may need to hang on. . . So, I’m sitting in a cafe and reality becomes a simulation. Not like “oh, isn’t this a fun simulation. Kinda like Star Trek”. No. . . It’s *really* a simulation. I’m all alone and everyone / everything is simulated and I have no idea how this is created, how to get out, or what I’m supposed to do. And then the waiter comes over and looks in my eyes. He is the only real one not part of the simulation. He looks deep in my eyes and I know he knows that I’m real and tripping. Yet I don’t know if he knows that I know he knows I’m tripping. When he walked away, I felt this strong desire to stand up and scream “This is all a simulation!! Wake up!!”. Or a desire to run away, yet I didn’t know what would happen in simulated world. And then one thought appeared that has saved my ass many times during a trip: “They don’t know you are tripping unless you let them know”. That was the last rational thought. So, I knew if I pretended like I everything was normal, things would be ok. . . . Yet it got too intense and needed to leave. So I asked myself “what would a ‘normal’ person do in this situation”. A divine thought entered. . . “Tell the waiter you have a stomach ache and ask for the meal to be package To-Go”. I felt so scared that this wouldn’t work. . . I could barely get the words out to the waiter. He went back into the kitchen for what seemed like an eternity. I ddin’t know what would come out. . . He came back with a box. I was afraid to open the box, yet also afraid to ask him if it’s ok to open the box. I took a deep breath, stood up and walked out. I went to a park, sat down and looked inside. . . A sandwich!!! I felt sooo relieved and happy. I ate the sandwich and everything changed into a loving magical world of exploration. . . One of the skills of tripping in public is acting normal. I’d say I deserve a few Academy Awards for acting normal. 

LOL sure you lived that to 100% degree, but in fact, it was just the story of you going to the restaurant, loosing sanity and opening a box with a sandwich, it's funny how it recontextualise reality about our deeper thought to the maxima, I m still thinking that we bring with us the operating paradigm of our consciousness who start to filter reality under the lens/paradigm that we have deep inside.
I had a trip where I was feeling under the control of god, because I was believing that I had absolutely no free will, the others, was on the contrary, very healing, was about I totaly control everything. God mode.
Since this trip no more inquiry for now, I want to build better knowledge of reality before actualizing it in a trip.
 

Edited April 20, 2020 by GodDesireOnlyLove

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, GodDesireOnlyLove said:

LOL sure you lived that to 100% degree, but in fact, it was just the story of you going to the restaurant, loosing sanity and opening a box with a sandwich, it's funny how it recontextualise reality about our deeper thought to the maxima, I m still thinking that we bring with us the operating paradigm of our consciousness who start to filter reality under this lens we have deep inside.

Yes. To any observer, like the people in the cafe, it was just an ordinary story. I guy enters, orders a sandwich, takes the sandwich to go and eats the sandwich in a park. Yet in my internal world, it was extremely dramatic. I almost stood up screaming in the cafe - which would have appeared “psychotic”. Yet it was 100% real to me. . . These types of experiences have given me more understanding and empathy for those that have “psychoses” like delusional schizophrenia. I have a pretty good idea what that’s like. 

[GodDesireOnlyLove]

@Meta-Man Told you man, that is a belief.

you didn't go deeper.
I got deeper.
 

it's not "no free will", but it's neither what you would call "pure free will" neither.

the brain is currently operating under certains filter and paradigm, but you can have a paradigm that control your entire paradigm.

but as you are arrogant, I m not sure I'll share with you more. Find for yourself. 

But determinism is not valid or non valid.

You are the one operating on belief system, we all need to have one, I m just more & more purging the one that is under "god will" or whatever, of course I'll not fly tomorrow with my arms. But even that, not sure.

I would remain skeptical, in a world where a feeling of choice exist, I wouldn't understand why there is such a feeling in the first place.

think it again. Maybe the feeling a delusion, but it's where start the real work in the 2nd dimension, before that you were/ or is, indeed, a pure pnj, until you start being woke.

Edited April 20, 2020 by GodDesireOnlyLove

[Waken]

@Meta-Man I'm not a big fan of Jed's style and perspective anymore, but thank you for the gesture   Oh yes what a crazy things we can do. For me it was quite scary to know that you're capable of much more then you would have thought if shit hits the fan.

@Serotoninluv Oh lol, nice story. yes crazy how easily this distinction between real and imaginary get's blurred and mixed up while tripping. In another trip I was walking with a blanket and when I looked down and saw the blanket I thought I just became the pope. In my mind I saw hundreds of thousands of people were on the move to see me, and I became absolutely panicked because I didn't know what to do, or say to them. 
These experiences can feel more much real than normal experiences, and found it quite helpful to just write a note for myself for when I would be tripping, to drop any belief or thought I held no matter how important it felt. The challenge is putting that note in a place you'll see it and read it

“They don’t know you are tripping unless you let them know”. That's a golden nugget for sure if you manage to think of that while tripping

It seems better to me to not do anything while you're planning to trip, that way you're prepared for if the trip will come on and you'll know what will happen and can use the experience. If the trip slips in while doing some activities you're much more prone to get delusional 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Waken

[GodDesireOnlyLove]

@Meta-Man I understand you, I agree with you right now.

it's not meant to be all the time that way though.

[cetus]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yet it is hard to stay motivated because I can’t tell anybody about these results - not my students or colleagues. I can’t present it at meetings or publish it. That totally sucks and it sucks the life out of the inquiry. I can make discoveries to satisfy my personal curiosity, yet I can’t share my discoveries with anyone. This is an area in which the structure of scientific research is counter-productive. 

In a way that's exactly what Leo is doing. Daring to step out of the structure in front of his students and colleagues. He's  like a David Bohm in the field of spirituality.

[GodDesireOnlyLove]

1 hour ago, Meta-Man said:

It is that way all the time. The One Being moves all the parts in creation. You are that One Being.

That One Being can trick itself into being limited to a human-body with a sense of autonomy.

And there’s nothing wrong with that

or you play the game or you don't, either way, both are true, believe it or not.

it's the easy way, you waste your life sitting on a chair and told us "it's just my non free will, now I need to poop because of my non free will".

why humans are so perfect is not a construct, wake up,
because the neo cortex, but indeed no free will is disconnecting that part of you for making you a npc.

the ego will trick you to believe there is no free will to makes you feel comfy about having a wasted life and be happy about that.

but that's ok I can get it cause I share with you the idea that indeed we are "limited".
but someone who isn't aware of higher level of design cannot conceive higher level of design.

you are high on the scale, not high enough.

you believe in a human construct who believe in an ego in a deterministic world. I don't even believe there has been an ego in the first place, it's all thoughts, pure imagination.

the only paradigm there is, maybe that one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

maybe just a thought, the only way, actuality.

Edited April 20, 2020 by GodDesireOnlyLove
Pnj - npc *

[GodDesireOnlyLove]

@Meta-Man whatever. have a good time waking up people from nothing

ps : I m living in pure bliss.

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by GodDesireOnlyLove

[lostmedstudent]

4 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Along a medical path, my impression is that psychedelics are seen as another “drug”. Since the psychedelics are rarely used in a population and have a low addiction risk, it is not a high priority to teach doctors about psychedelic-related treatment. Something like opioids is much more commonly used with much more adverse effects. Medical schools would include much more education about opioid physiology, overdoses and treatment than with psychedelics. Yet if you have some knowledge about psychedelic education in medical schools, I would be super interested in learning more. This would be very exciting news for me. 

as a med student in north america, this is pretty right on. 

in medical postgraduate training in psychiatry (medical students who graduate to specialize in psychiatry), however, they tend to be more open and does talk about psychedelics in therapeutic settings, especially in this era of psychedelic renaissance with MAPS, many psychiatrists are involved in the clinical research  @Corpus

[Visionary]

1 hour ago, Meta-Man said:

@GodDesireOnlyLove

Awakening goes way beyond physics. Physics is just phenomena, it won’t deliver the highest Truth.

Giving up your own illusory will for Gods will is the opposite of wasting your life. God is a much better driver than the ‘ignorant chimp ego’. But you have to give it up in order to understand that. You can give it up a little by little. That way you will gradually recieve the positive feedback needed to let go further.

Right now you are like a fish trying to swim upstream in Gods river, with your own selfish agendas and desires. That is what is causing your misery. 

Surrendering to Gods will can manifest in any way. It can manifest as climbing mountains, marrying a beautiful woman, delivering the highest teachings of Truth, eating a bag of chips, whatever.

My ego initially resisted the idea of it having no autonomy, as it has to. It wants to maintain the illusion of control. Pure binary ego mechanics. Ego death = loss of control.

 

I agree, but this especially happens in later/advanced stages. A personal will is required to be surrendered to Divine Will. It won't help people to mentally accept certain theories. This will only bring them in a position of victimhood (i have no influence in my life, i have no responsibilities bla bla bla). Maybe thats what they need, but we cannot decide that for them.

The surrender is actually a complete energetic surrender of the ego with its whole being. From the Visuddha chakra upwards. Thats the end of the ego. So I think it would be very wise to choose our words carefully for the younger folk or at least the ones who need to come out of victimhood. And trust me man.. this non-duality path can be a hidden agenda for the traumatized ego.

Non-existence (and as a bonus God) can be exactly what the self-hating traumatized ego thinks it wants.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Visionary

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, cetus said:

In a way that's exactly what Leo is doing. Daring to step out of the structure in front of his students and colleagues. He's  like a David Bohm in the field of spirituality.

I admire Leo for this. It’s not easy to do. 

If I researched psychedelics in my lab, there would be legal implications. I’m more concerned about the stupid legalities than my reputation as a scientist. Many of my students and colleagues don’t consider me a “real scientist” anymore. They don’t consider me a “quack” - more like an “alternative version”. 

[fridjonk]

@Serotoninluv having awakenings and working in academy and science must be like having a superpower, but you can never use it when someone's watching. ?

But I know you've gotten over that, the need to express oneself. This truly is a lonely journey. 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by fridjonk

[VeganAwake]

Nothing happens later, it's already here...

It's already Paradise it's already Heaven it's already perfect it's already whole & complete.

What happens is the mind or ego or whatever you want to call it, places an overlay on top of reality.

This overlay kicks you out of the Garden of Eden...

This overlay says everything has to have meaning purpose and value... it can't just be existence for existence sake.

Then the question of why? arises... we start seeking running on the hamster wheel for the rest of our lives looking for something that was never missing.

Meanwhile the birds are singing the wind is blowing the sun is shining the ocean is oceaning the mountains are mountaining.... but where are you?

Oh you're lost in your own mind... Lost In Your Own Story running the rat race, running on the hamster wheel looking for something that you will never find because it's already here.

This is what Awakening is...

There isn't some magical experience you will find anywhere else or in the future ...THIS is already IT...trust ❤

It's just whether its seen or not...

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by VeganAwake

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If I researched psychedelics in my lab, there would be legal implications. I’m more concerned about the stupid legalities than my reputation as a scientist. Many of my students and colleagues don’t consider me a “real scientist” anymore. They don’t consider me a “quack” - more like an “alternative version”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, lostmedstudent said:

as a med student in north america, this is pretty right on. 

in medical postgraduate training in psychiatry (medical students who graduate to specialize in psychiatry), however, they tend to be more open and does talk about psychedelics in therapeutic settings, especially in this era of psychedelic renaissance with MAPS, many psychiatrists are involved in the clinical research  @Corpus

As was referring to allopathic doctors in general. It’s great to see some specialized doctors in psychiatry getting some formal education in psychedelics. Contemporary psychiatry often incorporates a lot of biochemistry, neuroscience and pharmacology - so it doesn’t surprise me that they are open to psychedelics. The biochemists I know seem more curios and open-minded - yet that their thing - to design molecules and manipulate biochemical pathways. As well, there have quite a few papers now published in neuroscience and biochemistry of psychedelics. . . The psychologists I know seem to be lagging behind, especially the older ones. They seem to be stuck in traditional therapies that they were trained in or more modern techniques that are mild, such as CBT. Yet, they seem to come around slower with something radical like psychedelics (in spite of all the psychological publications). Perhaps it’s far outside their comfort zone and the effectiveness of psychedelics could be a threat to their traditional therapies and way of life. A traditional psychologist would need a lot of new training, not something like a workshop. More like an entire course. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Leary

It’s amazing how little has changed since Leary pushed the boundaries of psychedelics in academics. Yet the first couple dominoes have now fallen.

Last summer, a student and I did a study with a psychedelic-like psychoplastogen called DOI. It partially rescued neuromuscular defects in insects, supporting a model that psychoplastogens stimulate neuroplasticity. Undercover, I spiked a couple solutions with my private stash of 5-Meo and got similar results. It sucks that I would get Timothy-Learied if I revealed data showing neuromuscular healing properties of 5-Meo. The structure of scientific research can be so messed up. Yet I can’t stand the politics, egos and closed-mindedness in the status-quo of science and have an aversion to getting involved in that cluster. 

2 hours ago, fridjonk said:

@Serotoninluv having awakenings and working in academy and science must be like having a superpower, but you can never use it when someone's watching. ?

But I know you've gotten over that, the need to express oneself. This truly is a lonely journey. 

 

I’m able to teach at a yellow level. Many orange/green level scientists are ok with Yellow. It may seem “eccentric” in some ways, yet there is something appealing about Yellow to Orange. 

The problem is when I try to add in some Turquoise. I’d get Deepak Chopra’d. It’s too much for an academic world. Even though Turquoise can be the most important lessons in life, it is seen as “impractical” and “woo woo” by Tier 1. Especially by Orange. 

This was the first semester I told students that I did an Ayahuasca retreat and described the direct experience in terms of imagination/reality, psychosis, insight and direct experience knowing (vs. theoretical knowing). I haven’t gotten any pushback so far, which is a good sign. Yet I felt the need to stress that Ayahuasca retreats are totally legal in Peru, which felt weird to say. 

 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

It sucks that I would get Timothy-Learied if I revealed data showing neuromuscular healing properties of 5-Meo. The structure of scientific research can be so messed up. Yet I can’t stand the politics, egos and closed-mindedness in the status-quo of science and have an aversion to getting involved in that cluster.

I hear you brother. I'm inspired by your diligent work behind enemy lines

[Nak Khid]

6 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I could lose my job and face criminal prosecution. . . It’s against the law for me to use psychedelics in my research. 

There are some simple experiments I could do at home, yet I need some equipment and reagents at the University to do what I want to do. And if I was to publish in a scientific journal, it would be rejected (and I would likely face severe consequences).

I suppose I could try to do some simple experiments at my home, yet it would be very limited because I don’t have any equipment and it would be a big time investment. Plus, I wouldn’t be able to publish it in a reputable peer-reviewed source. It would be more like an open internet source that wouldn’t get disseminated very well. 

There is currently an effort to relax restrictions and regulations on psychedelic research, yet changes come slowly. Perhaps in the next five years or so. 

What are some examples of experiments that would be worth doing.   What would some of the experiments be trying to determine?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

What are some examples of experiments that would be worth doing.

The only experiment worth doing is putting it in your ass

[Forestluv]

Just now, Nak Khid said:

What are some examples of experiments that would be worth doing.   What would some of the experiments be trying to determine?

I’m interested in the neuroplastic-stimulating  effects of psychedelics. I don’t like working with cell culture or vertebrates, so I’d work with an invertebrate. There are many invertebrate models of neurological conditions. Some experiments can test if psychedelics can rescue neurological abnormalities at both the cellular and organismal level. For example, we could examine neurite growth with various antibody markers. 

Yet for me, a higher level would be how to guide neuralplasticity beneficially. We don’t want the brain to rewire in a messy manner. Basic generation of synapses is fairly easy to test, yet the more complex circuitry would be very difficult to examine.

As well, a higher level is to actually experiment on one’s self by ingesting psychedelics and working through the process. With enough skill, one can work within multiple levels - cellular, organismal, energetic, nonphysical, collective etc.