Can you lose progress in consciousness?

[Christer]

Hi!

 

Well, can you lose progress in consciousness after you've gained it?

For instance, there can be periods where the level of awareness is high, where you see so much at once. Insights are gained, you get a few ah ha, and then things go south. 

From being super self conscious, mindfulness is slowly degrading, you don't seem that interested anymore, you go back into playing many hours of computer, and kinda "forgetting". Suddenly you're all the way back into being sucked into thoughts and chasing stories, which you back then would not do. Back then you saw how you made and constructed very intimately, this flow through, and now.. Well. 

It's like for every insights gained, they want to be forgotten. Do they? Are they just new filters to be seen through? And presence, can it degrade? 

Cause I'm more "in here" being more hypnotized at all the shit emotions and thoughts arising, than I was a month ago, where I was so conscious I thought I was going to pop out into "outside"'.

And of course there is sadness and doubt and these questions arise.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Christer

[SamueLSD]

Absolutely. Forgetfulness is the egos favourite defence mechanism. 

https://www.actualized.org/articles/understanding-ego-backlash   

[Christer]

As we're emptying, does that mean forgetting is good? Cause I understand that being less is being more. 

This confuses me.

[Leo Gura]

Ego backlash is very common. You could consider is losing progress, or you can see it all as part of the whole path.

Like the stock market, you can't always be in a bull market. Life waxes and wanes. There are cycles, phases, and chapters.

It's important to see failure as crucial to your ultimate success. Failure is not a bad thing. It's how we learn our deepest lessons.

There is an old Zen story about how an eager young monk renounced material life and spent years trying to get enlightened. But it just didn't happen for him. Finally he quit in frustration and decided to go immediately to a whorehouse and get laid. As soon as he stuck his dick in, enlightenment happened.

[Hello from Russia]

From my experience - you can. You feel sad on a meta level when it happens. You're like "Man, shit, I"m not as conscious anymore' and it makes you feel sad

Edited April 16, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[Christer]

That Zen story made me burst out in laughter :-))) I get the point. 

As I`m loving to play Dark Souls at the moment, which by it self is a emotional ride of frustration and glory,  I see the frustration of "not doing what I should" come. I see it, recognize it and continue to play. But it lingers! So I put love into awareness and hold it up in front to be looked at, which has a tendency to amplify it. Whatever you focus, you bring more of. It gravitate. So instead being the victim, coming from a place of "I have peace, I have mindfulness, I have total awareness" will alter immidiately, but the backpack has magnetic, heavy stones; you truly want and desire to love every up and down but the stones are heavy.

 

And Leo, dear friend, please answer this following question. It would mean the world to get your lazor. It implies the same content.

1 year ago I entered total awareness, awareness not even aware of it self. Just this "space" and "I" was not there. "I" came up as the First idea, in that. Slowly one thought after another, I got constructed in awareness, as single individual ideas, one after another - My name, my body, eventually time, my job and life etc. "Total me" woke up and I could not move. It was like I woke up from 4 marathons. Few scattered thoughts flew around. It took me over one hour to stand up from a laying position, and many hours had passed inside total awareness, which was literally a blink of an eye, faster. Not there, really. 

The thing is, here I am asking the above questions. It makes me feel utterly disgusted. I will consider that a true realisation of No Self, a total extinction. I`ve trusted in the process knowing I had to go down into shit to integrate. In zen it`s said to take 7 years to integrate Awakening, cause your life has to be re-constructed, which is a part of the totality of The Process. I`ve had several "deaths" to come after, mostly in lucid.

So, how the FUCK can I have such bitching problems and fuck around here, when I clearly saw I was not? 

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Christer

[Leo Gura]

@Christer Was this awakening facillitated by psychedelics?

If it was, that won't be good enough to embody that radical degree of consciousness.

This is why people become full-time monks. It takes a lot of work to be able to live from that place 24/7.

One or two peak experiences will not be enough.

If it worked as easy as you want it, I would be a wizard who could shoot fireballs from his ass by now. Alas, it ain't so easy to live from those peaks.

[Christer]

We have yet to see such a wizard. That`s a great idea.

 

No, I`ve never tried compunds to yield psychedelic effects. I`m scared. Nonetheless, I desire that fear to be integrated.

That awakening was after a shaktipat. I contacted Ramaji, author of "LOC-1000, levels of concsiousness" after finding and reading it on your book list. I had several transmissions, several big awakenings. As I understand, you go up then you go down to integrate. I`m also currently under "education" from him to become a RASA giver, which is a part of my frustration; these long periods of frustrating exhales.

I trust you entirely, not just as guidance, but as a pointer.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Christer

[mandyjw]

That's all part of the magic of it, there's no one to own or progress, no point to progress from, no point to progress to, and yet you get to live the adventure as if there is. That "thing" sitting back watching and worrying about its own progression is the very thing in the way, it's the thing that thinks all the thoughts about itself that feel awful are warranted. But it was never actually a thing, so what is there...? Just the thoughts. When those thoughts flare up just meditate for 5 minutes or how ever long it takes. 

One thing I've noticed recently is how meditation feels like a "cheat" to me. It's the easiest quickest way to what I want, but I worry I won't be able to integrate day to day life if I rely on actually sitting to meditate several times a day. And that's where all kinds of distractions pop up in its place, food, internet, anything the mind can use to dull the painful thoughts it's spinning without actually having to look them straight in the eyes. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by mandyjw

[Christer]

Yes, exactly! And then you wonder, with the schematics of the thoughts; "well, if there are just thoughts, which there clearly is, how come it still acts as a seperate entity, and how does it manage to solidify itself? Still, after all this seeing!

 

The sense of "I am" is somewhat solid at center, more like a reference point, yet the edges of it has vanished. In the huge schematic of the thoughts, a pointer is moving like a nodule giving light to the momentarily thought, moving throught the structure in a fixed pattern. Some "lines" will lead to an exit/edge where more consciousness is recieved; but it is still inside the schematic itself. The entire feeling of "I am-ness" is seperate, kinda like a blurr in the back, yet this nodule/me is racing through the already existing patterns. And it knows what comes ahead. Of course it does, it made it.

The sense of "I am" is the soil. Above that, a tree hoovers, where the trunk is not connected to the soil at all, and the branches and leaves, depending on its solid mass, acts as hardened thoughts. The nodule, "me" moves in the lines and veins of the structure, always "inside" something. 

I miss and wish to re-member, and live, from the soil. And somehow knowledge is overridden.

 

What the fuck do one do.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Christer

[mandyjw]

@Christer Kinda like Leo suggested, sometimes you have to run around screaming "I'm a tree, I'm a tree, I'm a goddamn fucking tree!!!" before it dawns on you. And that's why ego backlash and loss of progress just isn't what it seems to be. 

[Christer]

Haha, great. One truly wish for that dawn do be "final", and to come asap. So one could get a huge checkpoint, a huge fully-integrated realisation, to live it and from it, in total awareness and start doing my passion; to aid others. Then get new ideas of how to experience my self.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Christer

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Christer said:

Well, can you lose progress in consciousness after you've gained it?

Consciousness is of course you, and infinite. What is infinite can not lose nor gain. You, consciousness, is the experience of this, but also is fooled by the experience. 

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For instance, there can be periods where the level of awareness is high, where you see so much at once. Insights are gained, you get a few ah ha, and then things go south. 

When you believe consciousness, awareness, is something other than you, it seems there are levels of “it” in relation to ‘you’.. Precisely as there are not-two, you are not actually experiencing high & low awareness. Intelligence in the body is experienced (ah ha’s), then the claiming of it occurs again, via the fore mentioned dualistic belief. 

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From being super self conscious, mindfulness is slowly degrading, you don't seem that interested anymore, you go back into playing many hours of computer, and kinda "forgetting". Suddenly you're all the way back into being sucked into thoughts and chasing stories, which you back then would not do. Back then you saw how you made and constructed very intimately, this flow through, and now.. Well. 

Consciousness creates (is) experience, of itself, by itself, for itself, and thus veils itself with it self, as the activity of thinking. “Super self conscious” would be no mind, samadhi, rather than self referential thinking. Consider self=consciousness, rather than a separate self who is “self conscious”. Those are only thoughts. You are not-two. The thought activity, as well as the activities you’re doing willfully (but claiming are low conscious) are intentionally veiling yourself, from feeling & knowing the love & truth you actually are. It can’t be said to be a “problem”, as it’s what you’re choosing. As you said, this has already been seen. That bucket is not holding water. 

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It's like for every insights gained, they want to be forgotten. Do they? Are they just new filters to be seen through? And presence, can it degrade? 

You’re just trying to hang on to insights. Log them in an electronic journal of some sort, remain empty. The flow of insights will resume, and due to the feeling of it, you will experienced the miracle, the rockin of the path, and will have no inclinations to personify ego, consciousness, insights, awareness, etc. Presence is simply being without voluntary thinking, on behalf of the indirectly created ‘separate self’. 

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Cause I'm more "in here" being more hypnotized at all the shit emotions and thoughts arising, than I was a month ago, where I was so conscious I thought I was going to pop out into "outside"'.

And of course there is sadness and doubt and these questions arise.

This is precisely what is desired. It is desire “itself”, ever-known. Express, rather than conceptualize. Any expressive interest or activity will do. 

4 hours ago, Christer said:

As we're emptying, does that mean forgetting is good? Cause I understand that being less is being more. 

This confuses me.

You can not forget on purpose. You can let thinking go. Memory is just sexier, more enticing thinking. It adds to the experience. Give’s it depth, and kind of an added ‘bonus’ game imo. There’s no being less or being more. There is being you as you are, or ruminating in self referential thought to suppress the body & mind from releasing, and love, passion, understanding & compassion arising. Welcome the full experience of feeling. Explore every square millimeter of it. There are some clever twists and turns, such as the lasting joy lying prior to sadness & sorrow, and bliss lying prior to anger. (You had to make it somehow or this experience would be lame). Express and release, all you want is truly within, not without... you be like this, effortlessly ruling your galaxy all day long. 

1 hour ago, Christer said:

I desire that fear to be integrated.

You’re believing oil & water mix there, with the desire & fear. They won’t, which is exactly what you are experiencing & discovering. You’re creating fear, so you can’t possibly integrate it. I would contemplate what “integrate” actually means to you. What “second thing” do you figure you’re integrating? Where exactly are you believing fear is coming from?  If you’re going to believe in believing, at least make it love, or empowerment. I’d let go so the real deal can fill ya up. Just an opinion though. You might find there is but one source, and it neither contains nor offers, fear. 

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That awakening was after a shaktipat. I contacted Ramaji, author of "LOC-1000, levels of concsiousness" after finding and reading it on your book list. I had several transmissions, several big awakenings. As I understand, you go up then you go down to integrate. I`m also currently under "education" from him to become a RASA giver, which is a part of my frustration; these long periods of frustrating exhales.

I trust you entirely, not just as guidance, but as a pointer.

Trust in yourself, only, believe in yourself, only. The sounds point, the entity is you. There is a paradigm of trust at play, veiling what you are wishing would arise & transpire. You’re making up the idea consciousness is coming from someone which you are making up, and you’re believing your own story. I’d so no biggie, but you are suffering and not seeing how you’re creating, and I’m convinced you’re interested in seeing how. (Just reminding you, as again, you said you experience pure consciousness, you, already) Fine line between helping you see that, and more “levels” and an “education” needed so you can reach yourself, which you already of course, and actually know you are. In this way, by your own choice, you are literally creating the very “frustrating exhales”, the veiling, you desire to be without. Creating the very resistance that simply does not resonate. You might be “hypnotized” as you say, and on the rollercoaster, but you indeed are creating & choosing it. 

1 hour ago, Christer said:

Yes, exactly! And then you wonder, with the schematics of the thoughts; "well, if there are just thoughts, which there clearly is, how come it still acts as a seperate entity, and how does it manage to solidify itself? Still, after all this seeing!

There isn’t, and it doesn’t. That “it” does, is a thought. Solidity never happens. It’s you appearing to yourself as yourself. 

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The sense of "I am" is somewhat solid at center, more like a reference point, yet the edges of it has vanished. In the huge schematic of the thoughts, a pointer is moving like a nodule giving light to the momentarily thought, moving throught the structure in a fixed pattern. Some "lines" will lead to an exit/edge where more consciousness is recieved; but it is still inside the schematic itself. The entire feeling of "I am-ness" is seperate, kinda like a blurr in the back, yet this nodule/me is racing through the already existing patterns. And it knows what comes ahead. Of course it does, it made it.

The sense of "I am" is the soil. Above that, a tree hoovers, where the trunk is not connected to the soil at all, and the branches and leaves, depending on its solid mass, acts as hardened thoughts. The nodule, "me" moves in the lines and veins of the structure, always "inside" something. 

I miss and wish to re-member, and live, from the soil. And somehow knowledge is overridden.

What the fuck do one do.

You & I and every other, experience one single thought at a time by design. There is not a “huge schematic of thoughts”, that is a thought. Believing it, or not. To avoid feeling, you’re creating outrageous models of what thought is, which has led you to create the belief the feeling is separate. It is not. What lies ahead is not known, but is you - not knowing, so it doesn’t matter ultimately...just appears to. Drop notions like “hardened thoughts” asap. That’s one thought, about “hardened thoughts”. That trunk is connected. So connected in fact, there are, not-two. Knowledge is not overridden, it is overriding, but you are choose it to. Let it go. 

53 minutes ago, Christer said:

 One truly wish for that dawn do be "final", and to come asap.

It is never coming. Ever. Nor is anyone else ever coming, who could give it to you. Enjoy the hide and seek, until you don’t anymore, then start doing the inspecting, so you understand what’s going on here (‘in’ direct experience)

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So one could get a huge checkpoint, a huge fully-integrated realisation, to live it and from it, in total awareness and start doing my passion; to aid others. Then get new ideas of how to experience my self.

Just start. Write out the absolute smallest step you could do each day. Seeing it linearly like that changes everything. What once appeared big, challenging, and difficult...is revealed to be within your control, enjoyable, and even effortless. A dreamboard is a hell of a way to experince yourself. 

TLDR: Put “progress” as a higher priority than enjoying this moment, and life will not make sense. 

[Christer]

I had to take a shower after reading your reply, Nahm. My head was pumping. I will re-read this over and over and over, cause it`s so much to get from this.

2 hours ago, Nahm said:

4 hours ago, Christer said:

I desire that fear to be integrated.

You’re believing oil & water mix there, with the desire & fear. They won’t, which is exactly what you are experiencing & discovering. You’re creating fear, so you can’t possibly integrate it. I would contemplate what “integrate” actually means to you. What “second thing” do you figure you’re integrating? Where exactly are you believing fear is coming from?  If you’re going to believe in believing, at least make it love, or empowerment. I’d let go so the real deal can fill ya up. Just an opinion though. You might find there is but one source, and it neither contains nor offers, fear.

This is very important to me, as fear is waking up in me every evening. Faces of monsters appear from white "moist" when I close my eyes, or have them open in the dark. It keeps me away from building one of my big passions, my loving trips into nature with my tent. Cause I am shit scared of especially aliens to appear. It´s this sensation that something is there in the dark. I don`t know if "third eye" has something do do with it. I try not to go into that. But I see a dark blue tunnel and "eye of horus" appearing, many of them, and scary faces. Is this also just absolutely bullcrap?

My second belief is that my unintegrated emotions will be integrated. That is, the dense areas in my body that gives faint echoes of really painful hurt and dispair. A feeling of not wanting to be alive, abandonment; in the abdomen and plexus, and choking sensations in my chest and throat.

Integration for me means to put things back into it`s rightful place, and the only way out is through.

 

All the rest is a huge stick punching me. I can`t thank you enough... This is Exactly what I wanted, black and white, concrete. I will print this out and have it with me.

Really, thank you <3

Edited April 16, 2020 by Christer

[Javfly33]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

There is an old Zen story about how an eager young monk renounced material life and spent years trying to get enlightened. But it just didn't happen for him. Finally he quit in frustration and decided to go immediately to a whorehouse and get laid. As soon as he stuck his dick in, enlightenment happened.

LOL I can see myself going down the same path. Funny story for sure. I´m going to save that one for the future.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Javfly33

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, Christer said:

I had to take a shower after reading your reply, Nahm

Well that’s a first. 

You’ll be alright man. Listen to feeling. If what you’re thinkin, what you’re focused, doesn’t feel good to you - pick what does. Pay more attention to actuality, to direct experience. Notice, you have no reason to fear aliens, you’ve never encountered them. Logically speaking, if there are aliens and they could reach earth, or appear to us...they’re way ahead of us, and could already have done whatever they wanted. But they don’t, because they are more intelligence than one who would fear them (no offense just making a point). Intelligence is inseparable from love. Even Bashar would likely tell you, you’re afraid of your thought about aliens, not aliens. That thought doesn’t feel good, because it’s not true. It’s a smokescreen, preventing the body from releasing, and having a cry fest or two. I’ve had em, their delightfully worthwhile. Nothing to fear. You might say it’s how these fears are released & seen through, and you move on in conviction, confidence & inspiration, damn near reborn. Don’t let anything get between you and your nature.

Fear of the dark is pretty easily curable. Just stand in a dark room tonight alone, by the light switch. Turn it on, and look around, see that everything is totally fine. Then turn it off, and notice nothing actually changed. Flip it on and off as many times as it takes, until you’re laughing about how you were afraid, of nothing. 

Also, take a good look at your space, whatever that is, a bedroom, house, apartment, etc. Is it...you? Are there pictures, paintings, photos, of the nature you love? Is there a dreamboard with destinations & photo’s of them on it? This might not be realized yet, but each of us are dreaming this experience. You’re getting precisely what you’re focusing on, and that is reliable, it will continue to be the case. Surround yourself with wanted. Fill your head from your heart, with wanted. Speak of wanted. Imagine wanted. Share wanted. 

What you want, is what feels good to you. What feels good to you is what you want. Notice these are the same damn ‘thing’, it is desire, creation. Get on board with what you want, and you quite literally get on board with creation. There is not creation....and you. You are not separate from creation. When you make that inner choice, to express what you want, the entire universe is aligned within you, all of creation, all that has ever been and could ever be, is within you, creating. Don’t underestimate the power of a single thought, a single choice, of what you want. You were designed & born to do this. The past is passed. You’re here now. This is the present. The whole damn thing is for you. The entire cosmos, is for you. Let go. Have fun. Look those monster right in the eyes, and laugh at them. If you do, sincerely, I can assure you they’ll laugh back. Just call their bluff. There is one entity, and it is love, and you are it sir. Behaviors & actions, are not the entity. Let go, forgive, accept, love, understanding, and start livin. 

[Christer]

This time, I cried and I started to swet. You`ve given me everything I needed to move onward, my dear friend. Everything is within your posts. I have no words. Me and my 50 or so plants (I have a very green appartement, but lacking the dreamboard) are very happy. I`ve already started to let go.

I want you to know you`ve truly given me a bonfire. My gratitude is so big and deep. I love you <3 

[mandyjw]

@Christer Nahm is a wizard. Not sure if he lives up to Leo's particular vision of what wizards are as stated above though. 

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Christer said:

I trust you entirely

That's a mistake. Don't trust human words. Trust your direct experience.

Be careful relying on others to awaken you. Any lack of consciousness in them will transfer to you.

[diamondpenguin]

Gaining consciousness is a lot more difficult than I first expected. All about the journey.