Spiral Dynamics, Enlightenment, and Spirituality

[TrustTheProcess]

For some background on myself. I grew up in a blue christian environment, evolved to orange and was atheist in my teens, and now, my spirituality is pretty green with touches of turquoise thanks to some of Leo's videos and a handful of non-dual experiences I've had.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what spirituality looks like in the feminine stages(Purple, Blue, Green, Turquoise), but I am wondering what spirituality looks like in the masculine stages(red, orange, yellow).

Also, I think in a video, Leo mentioned that one can be enlightened at any stage. I am having trouble conceptualizing how a stage blue monk for example who is prejudice against gay people can realize oneness. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by louhad

[Ananta]

2 hours ago, louhad said:

Leo mentioned that one can be enlightened at any stage. I am having trouble conceptualizing how a stage blue monk for example who is prejudice against gay people can realize oneness. 

By realizing they are fundamentally undivided awareness, the "apparent" person that seems to be a stage blue monk who is prejudice against gay people is "ultimately" illusion. 

[silene]

@louhad
 " I think I have a pretty good idea of what spirituality looks like in the feminine stages(Purple, Blue, Green, Turquoise), but I am wondering what spirituality looks like in the masculine stages(red, orange, yellow)."

I hadn't looked at SD in masculine/feminine terms before, that's an interesting perspective. 

"and now, my spirituality is pretty green"  ... "I am having trouble conceptualizing how a stage blue monk for example who is prejudice against gay people can realize oneness. "
Your stage green perspective could explain this, green sees life through its more liberal lens; when you can conceptualise this apparent paradox it's a sign you're moving into yellow    

[VeganAwake]

16 hours ago, louhad said:

For some background on myself. I grew up in a blue christian environment, evolved to orange and was atheist in my teens, and now, my spirituality is pretty green with touches of turquoise thanks to some of Leo's videos and a handful of non-dual experiences I've had.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what spirituality looks like in the feminine stages(Purple, Blue, Green, Turquoise), but I am wondering what spirituality looks like in the masculine stages(red, orange, yellow).

Also, I think in a video, Leo mentioned that one can be enlightened at any stage. I am having trouble conceptualizing how a stage blue monk for example who is prejudice against gay people can realize oneness. 

A Prejudice stage Blue Monk who awakens might just stop staring at the wall during meditation there's no telling...?

[Leo Gura]

16 hours ago, louhad said:

I think I have a pretty good idea of what spirituality looks like in the feminine stages(Purple, Blue, Green, Turquoise), but I am wondering what spirituality looks like in the masculine stages(red, orange, yellow).

It's not a good idea to classify entire stages as masculine or feminine. Masculine/feminine is a typology which cuts across all stages. Likewise, introvert/extrovert cuts across all stages.

See my video called Spiral Dynamics - Nuances

Quote

I am having trouble conceptualizing how a stage blue monk for example who is prejudice against gay people can realize oneness. 

That's exactly what most Eastern monks and yogis are like. Zen masters are famous for this kind of behavior. They can be very enlightened but sexist, racist, homophobic, nationalistic, etc. because the mind is still at stage Blue due to the culture it is steeped in.

Enlightenment will not rewire your entire mind and it will not deprogram it of all cultural biases and beliefs. That requires much more work.

[remember]

well there is a hint about tendencies of the yin and yang aspects – although there are strong differences in individuals. the archetypes still play a roll in individual and group development and identity. even though it would be nice if skippable but proper animus/anima work or better understanding the pattern/structure of our gender fallacies are crucial in developing respect, understanding and value for our light shadow – if not also understood that way, it might be difficult to even understand what lingers in the dark, not to talk about abysses.

Edited April 15, 2020 by remember

[Nahm]

19 hours ago, louhad said:

For some background on myself. I grew up in a blue christian environment, evolved to orange and was atheist in my teens, and now, my spirituality is pretty green with touches of turquoise thanks to some of Leo's videos and a handful of non-dual experiences I've had.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what spirituality looks like in the feminine stages(Purple, Blue, Green, Turquoise), but I am wondering what spirituality looks like in the masculine stages(red, orange, yellow).

Also, I think in a video, Leo mentioned that one can be enlightened at any stage. I am having trouble conceptualizing how a stage blue monk for example who is prejudice against gay people can realize oneness. 

It’s because you can’t conceptualized enlightenment by projecting it onto anyone else. In assessing the monk, you veil yourself more. 

[TrustTheProcess]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what most Eastern monks and yogis are like. Zen masters are famous for this kind of behavior. They can be very enlightened but sexist, racist, homophobic, nationalistic, etc. because the mind is still at stage Blue due to the culture it is steeped in.

Enlightenment will not rewire your entire mind and it will not deprogram it of all cultural biases and beliefs. That requires much more work.

Would that mean that it would be possible for say a red warlord who orders troops to rape and pillage villages or an orange oil ceo who lobbies to maximize profits without regard for externalities or a judgmental sjw type green to be enlightened? I thought enlightenment was the dissolution of the self, dissolution of the illusory perception of separation, dissolution of the neurotic impulse to survive-- living in pure harmony with what is(Reminder-- I am speaking from a spiritual frame of reference with a green center of gravity).

 

Holding racist beliefs, raping and pillaging villages, general orange corporate activity, and mean green sjw shenanigans for example seem to be deeply rooted in survival and separation. If I have it all wrong, I would like to learn more and have more of an explanation than just "you're stage green, you'll grow out of it" or a video or other resource. I'd love to see an in depth tier 2 perspective on this. 

[Carl-Richard]

30 minutes ago, louhad said:

Would that mean that it would be possible for say a red warlord who orders troops to rape and pillage villages or an orange oil ceo who lobbies to maximize profits without regard for externalities or a judgmental sjw type green to be enlightened?

Just because you get enlightened doesn't mean you will give up on survival. The stage red warlord has no alternative but to pillage if he doesn't have the cultural impetus to move to stage blue.

[Leo Gura]

@louhad In practice warlords and CEOs will never reach enlightenment.

There are many degrees of it. So even if someone has a peak at enlightenment, it will only be a small peak.

[How to be wise]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's exactly what most Eastern monks and yogis are like. Zen masters are famous for this kind of behavior. They can be very enlightened but sexist, racist, homophobic, nationalistic, etc. because the mind is still at stage Blue due to the culture it is steeped in.

Maybe being stage Blue in that place and time is best. Clearly most of the people there have stuck to that mindset, and if you are to get along with them, you also should adopt (or pretend to adopt) that mindset.

Of course they shouldn’t exhibit all the negative aspects of Blue, but I think some of them will decide to agree with it, just to keep peace with the people they are living with.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, How to be wise said:

Maybe being stage Blue in that place and time is best. Clearly most of the people there have stuck to that mindset, and if you are to get along with them, you also should adopt (or pretend to adopt) that mindset.

Of course they shouldn’t exhibit all the negative aspects of Blue, but I think some of them will decide to agree with it, just to keep peace with the people they are living with.

Everything is best by definiton, by the mere fact of its existence.

Whatever you choose to create will become what is "best".

[How to be wise]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything is best by definiton, by the mere fact of its existence.

Whatever you choose to create will become what is "best".

Wise words.