Mr Bill Gates - conscious stage green philanthropist OR dangerous, shady elitist?

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, Tobia said:

@Leo Gura You shouldn't want mandatory, forced vaccination under any circumstance. And that is 100% the direction we are heading. Bill Gates has been a huge proponent of that.

Whatever your belief about vaccines is and how poorly informed you might be, forcing someone to have an injection in their veins is fascism.

This is perception through a narrow lens. There is some truth to what you write, yet it is narrow. Trying to extrapolate a narrow view into wide view will create distortion because nuances and dots outside the narrow view are not integrated.

For example, you have the luxury to have the view you do. You don’t need to worry about contracting polio, smallpox or a variety of other diseases because people before you took vaccines. You take that for granted. As well, your hyper libertarian view will get distorted at the population level. For vaccines to be effective, a threshold percentage of the population needs to take the vaccine. By your logic, a misinformed public in which 30% of the population refuses a vaccine will make the vaccine ineffective at the population level. This would have negative consequences at the social level. Illness and death would increase. The economy and healthcare system would be damaged. There would be enormous cost at the population level. This isn’t fascism. That is paradigm-locked into an anti-government, libertarian perspective. A mind locked in this perspective will be unable to see the medical and social benefits that come from vaccines. 

There are many intricacies and nuances about vaccines.

As well, I’m also seeing another odd idea that Big Pharma profits big off vaccines. . . From a capitalist perspective, pharmaceutical industries do not like investing in vaccines. The profit motive isn’t there. Often they just break even. Pharmaceutical companies dread investing the immense amount of workforce and money into developing a vaccine that is only used once. The profits are too low. Pharmaceuticals would much rather have chronic illnesses in which people need to take the drug daily - such as hypertension medication. That is where the profits are. 

Regarding Bill Gates. . . a lot of you are locked into an angel vs. demon duality. Personalities are not that simple and not easily categorized into a binary system. Has Bill Gates stepped on some backs to accumulate his wealth? Yes. Is his ego involved with his latest Coronavirus fame? Likely. . . However, Gates also has genuine desire to help others. For example, he has invested 100s of millions of dollars into research and treatment of tropical diseases. These are neglected diseases that cause and immense amount of pain and suffering. Very little resources are invested to help these are poor people in developing countries that have no voice. Research and treatment money go toward diseases of developed, wealthier countries such as cancer. Gates has invested 100s of millions into diseases that affect 100s of millions of poor people that are neglected. For example, we have made huge progress in combating and treating river blindness, a disease common in poor areas of Africa. Gates isn’t profiting off this, nor is it bringing him fame or fortune. 

[Guest Tobia]

@Serotoninluv what you are referring to is the idea of Herd Immunity.

It is a dogmatic idea used for many years by those who sell you the vaccines. It has NEVER been proven.

Reputable scientists and doctors have argued against it and have been brutally shut down or killed.

But let's keep that aside.

Americans are probably not familiar with the concept of bodily integrity as you still do death penalty and lethal injections but here it is.

 according to wikipedia:

"Bodily integrity is the inviolability of the physical body and emphasizes the importance of personal autonomy, self-ownership, and self-determination of human beings over their own bodies. In the field of human rights, violation of the bodily integrity of another is regarded as an unethical infringement, intrusive, and possibly criminal."

You are enforcing the corporate regime of which you are actually the victim, not the beneficiary.

 

[Consept]

Guys look im not completely dismissing your docs, there is some truth in them but like @Serotoninluv says they only provide a very narrow view. You get entangled in them because they take facts but then adjust them to an agenda but the way they do it is pretty ingenious as they add fear, rebelian and many other factors that stoke the paranoia within you. I bring up the docs because its really the only thing people seem to point to. Now all these docs have some kind of backing esp the well produced ones, ive been recommended 2 in the last couple days one from the Epoch Times which is actually the second biggest funder of Trump facebook ads and Out of the Shadows which is very clearly funded by right wing people although its not clear who exactly. Now before you watched these kind of docs you wouldve never backed Trump about anything and rightly so given the ridiculous amount of examples of just shitty things hes done, which i mentioned in an earlier post. Now you back him in his decisions, regardless of the stories you tell yourself in your mind and regardless of how right you think you are, the fact is very clear you have changed your mind because of at least some right wing propaganda. The fact that its mixed with truth is beside the point of course they would do this to manipulate you. 

Look at things with nuance, its not just 'vaccine bad, so gates bad, trump no like gates, trump good' (im not saying guys think exactly like this but some on my feeds do), everything is super nuanced and i feel like a lot of you are blind to that at the moment. Im not worried about you because youre on here so you will develop past this but still it needs to be pointed out 

[Forestluv]

34 minutes ago, Tobia said:

@Serotoninluv what you are referring to is the idea of Herd Immunity.

It is a dogmatic idea used for many years by those who sell you the vaccines. It has NEVER been proven.

Reputable scientists and doctors have argued against it and have been brutally shut down or killed.

I am a reputable scientist that conducts research and teaches at a University. For your mind to remain locked into a conspiracy paradigm, you must maintain an either / or mindset and remain blind to nuances. That is your choice. 

I am not 100% pro-vaccine or 100% anti-vaccine. I am able to see nuances, degrees and multiple perspectives. 

34 minutes ago, Tobia said:

@Serotoninluv

You are enforcing the corporate regime of which you are actually the victim, not the beneficiary.

I am often critical of corporate impacts. I teach a University class on the bioethics of pharmaceutical research, drug design and dissemination. I have many ethical concerns regarding pharmaceuticals. You guys are just scratching the surface of unethical corporate practices in medical research and treatment. . . However, it is not black and white. You can choose to see the issue as black and white if you wish, or you can expand your mind to see gray areas and nuances. 

As well, notice how you immediately categorized me as an “enforcer of the corporate regime”. Such quick categorization is often reflective of a binary mind locked in a perspective. If I am an enforcer of the corporate regime, why would I teach a University class about how unethical and harmful the corporate regime is?. . . If you stay locked within your paradigm, you would need to create a bizarre conspiracy story about how I am a corporate regimist using reverse psychology on pre-med students to promote corporate control. You can twist yourself into a pretzel if you like. . . Or you can let go of attachment to one view and start exploring and learning in a way that expands your mind. 

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
Actually I've been pro Trump from the very beginning, because I knew he is our last chance. As I said, he is no angel, but he is the weapon necessary basically.
Do you even have an argument here, I don't see one to be honest. You are like, these are funded by right wing people, therefore they must be bad. You are totally biased on this.

Edited April 15, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[remember]

@LaucherJunge and you are german... didn’t you want to say: „hail you big guider – for guiding us out of the labyrinth of our own stupidity“

[LaucherJunge]

@remember I'm polish to be exact, just living in germany and had to endure a lot of racism during my childhood, but yeah if you say so.

[remember]

6 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@remember I'm polish to be exact, just living in germany and had to endure a lot of racism during my childhood, but yeah if you say so.

passport? you are just living there but i can imagine what you vote. and that’s actually not connected to where you originated from but about how you talk - its completely irrational.

not that i‘m a rational person but you know irrational and rational are one and the same coin.

Edited April 15, 2020 by remember

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@Consept
Actually I've been pro Trump from the very beginning, because I knew he is our last chance. As I said, he is no angel, but he is the weapon necessary basically.
Do you even have an argument here, I don't see one to be honest. You are like, these are funded by right wing people, therefore they must be bad. You are totally biased on this.

I didnt say they were bad im just saying they would have an agenda, youre not watching unbiased docs, i would 100% feel the same if it was a doc funded by left wing people and had a very obvious partisan rhetoric, the point isnt where they sit on the spectrum its that theres an obvious agenda behind them. Conspiracy theorists big argument is that mainstream media cant be trusted because of those behind it, my point is that these docs that are being held up as proof against the mainstream media also are funded by similar people that are behind the mainstream media. Potentially its worse with the docs as the people are hidden. So its like escaping one matrix and getting caught in another

[Consept]

5 minutes ago, remember said:

passport? you are just living there but i can imagine what you vote. and that’s actually not connected to where you originated from but about how you talk - its completely irrational.

not that i‘m a rational person but you know irrational and rational are one and the same coin.

Still be respectful though, these are traps i know weve all probably been caught in, in the past and still get caught up in

Edited April 15, 2020 by Consept

[LaucherJunge]

@remember
On what basis is being right winged without being racist irrational? I see being a left fascist as irrational and yeah racism is irrational too, but what is defined as racism in our society is simply not racism at all. I know what real racism looks like and I know what leftist fascism looks like.

@Consept
And yet again I'm telling you we don't get to choose between "good" and "evil", we don't get to have perfection, we get to have something that's simply better.

Edited April 15, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[remember]

@LaucherJunge there is no leftist fascism - there is only fascism or antifascism.

there is only black and white and gray and more black - but there is no colour in that question its just a matter of nuances.

Edited April 15, 2020 by remember

[LaucherJunge]

@remember Is that so? Then keep on believing that, till you'll be forced to wake up.

[remember]

6 minutes ago, LaucherJunge said:

@remember Is that so? Then keep on believing that, till you'll be forced to wake up.

i told you so, just a matter of nuances.

[DrewNows]

http://rawschool.com/disease/@Serotoninluv how would you categorize this article? Surely not every anti vaxxer has had a shift in their modality of perception for health 
 

to be honest I quickly became pro  “vaccine safety” until I got enough answers to feel safe in accepting old beliefs were built upon half truths, and I ain’t got no time for that! 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise You are still at war with yourself.

I wish you peace.

Speak for yourself there Leo. And its physically manifesting in your health issues. 

Peace to us all.

[Guest Tobia]

@Serotoninluv I appreciate your response and I agree to have fallen in a rather black and white thinking, especially in the past few days.

I tend to do so precisely because the concerns I bring forth are usually dismissed as conspiracy or paranoia. Only to find a few years later that a good percentage of the concerns prove to be true.

You are definitely more knowledgable than me on this.

So HOW can I be comfortable accepting a forced vaccination when lack of transparency, proprietary ingredients, adiuvants and censorship are the norm?

I grew up around around upper class kids from powerful and wealthy families. Involved in italian corporations and politics. Some worth 100s of millions.

None of these kids were vaccinated while, ironically, their fathers went on TV and parliament voting for mandatory vaccines for kids going to public schools.

So they didn't vaccinate their kids (and sent them to private schools) but then preached to millions to get vaccinated.

Thanks for your balanced perspective

[Consept]

@TobiaRespect bro, takes a lot to look at yourself in that way 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Consept

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

http://rawschool.com/disease/@Serotoninluv how would you categorize this article? Surely not every anti vaxxer has had a shift in their modality of perception for health 

Right off the bat, there is poor framing. The first sentence is “Do bacteria cause disease? Do viruses?”. . . That is horrible framing. It sets up a binary decision of whether or not bacteria and viruses cause disease. That is the foundation of the entire article. Such a binary construct will miss intricacies and nuances.

Do bacteria and viruses cause disease? If we say ‘no’, we limit ourselves to diseases independent of disease. We exclude ourselves from learning and understanding microbial-based diseases. As well, the mind will not be open to see the interactions between microbial and non-microbial aspects of disease. For example, how the microbiome in the gut interacts with the genetic background in the grain.

Do bacteria and viruses cause disease? If we say ‘yes’, it allows more space - yet it too can be limiting. For example, if we believe that only microbes cause disease, we will not be open to learning about non-microbial diseases. As well, we would not be open to viewing interactions between microbial and non-microbial within a disease. For example, someone may have a poor diet that leads to inefficient cellular respiration and a compromised immune system. Opportunistic bacteria may be able to gain traction in this body that was already compromised. So is the disease caused by the poor diet or by the bacteria? Both.

Do bacteria and viruses cause disease? The best answer would be “yes and no” and then an open exploration. 

Since the article is grounded in “no”, it will be inherently misleading. It had some truths, yet it is also has misleading statements contextualized to support the underlying agenda of the article. 

 

 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

For example, you have the luxury to have the view you do. You don’t need to worry about contracting polio, smallpox or a variety of other diseases because people before you took vaccines.

This is what you are taught to believe but I respectfully disagree that this is true.

After digging deep into the origins of polio, I discovered it  was originally heavy metal poisoning before it was classified as a 'deadly virus'. 

https://leifgrunseth.com/18-things-dont-know-polio-virus-lie/